399 réponses à ce sujet

[wingzeroshell]

technical after the info he gave us none of them do. They don't have to listen answer or read anything we do or care they make a game the way they want it and we have to like it from what i got. 

[wingzeroshell]

by the way has anyone ever had verbal contact with someone actually linked to bioware?

[Dr. Rush]

It is a little bizarre how people are suggesting that they are entitled to interact with game devs. That is definitely not something you are entitled to as a customer. 
 

I am not sure why anyone thinks that. When you go to a movie or buy a DVD, do you get to give your feedback directly to Spielberg? Of course not. 

 

If you don't like a song on the radio, do you get to tell that artist what you think of their music? No, of course not.

 

You are delusional if you think you are entitled to communicate with devs. It is a luxury or an opportunity, but it is not something customers are ever entitled to. By all means, ask and request for more dev interaction, but don't demand it or expect it. Please don't be delusional. 

[Teligth]

technical after the info he gave us none of them do. They don't have to listen answer or read anything we do or care they make a game the way they want it and we have to like it from what i got. 

Well to play the devils advocate it's only from a PR perspective that they should have to talk to us unless someone's game blew up, but I understand the feeling. I mean I was probably a bit harsher than I should have been in my response post, but I've seen how angry this community has gotten at times. It's because we really love Dragon Age and are passionate about it. Odds are devs are listening, but they aren't responsible for the responses. We expect to see something and even if it was a comforting message from a mod or rep saying something like "Hey passed your concern or idea along" I think a good number of people would be satisfied. But I don't really see too much of that and things get negative fast.

[Teligth]

It is a little bizarre how people are suggesting that they are entitled to interact with game devs. That is definitely not something you are entitled to as a customer. 
 

I am not sure why anyone thinks that. When you go to a movie or buy a DVD, do you get to give your feedback directly to Spielberg? Of course not. 

 

If you don't like a song on the radio, do you get to tell that artist what you think of their music? No, of course not.

 

You are delusional if you think you are entitled to communicate with devs. It is a luxury or an opportunity, but it is not something customers are ever entitled to. By all means, ask and request for more dev interaction, but don't demand it or expect it. Please don't be delusional. 

You are 100% correct. But it would be nice if a community rep would reassure that the correct parties have been apprised of issues. Not required, but would be nice.

[wingzeroshell]

^^^ It's sad i get assured through a chat to an individual being told what to say and how to say it and he seems more caring then the whole dam company but why am i surprised major corps are like this now. Less caring more greed one company i won't ever buy from again.

[SofaJockey]

I'm not sure if this is a bait or not, I really hope not, but he opens in a very respectful way, links evidence and supports his claim. He has a right to his opinions and I saw nothing wrong with his response. Pointing out what you think is wrong by default isn't uncivil.

 

Nope, not bait at all.

 

(And I have no issue with Fundamentalist personally, I just think the post didn't help)

 

An angry post with sarcastic lines like "Is there a company-wide philosophy of putting in the least amount of effort to do things in order to yield results that allow you to just scrape by?"

 

The evidence was pretty feeble. References to comments from Mike Laidlaw (not Mark Darrah) to imply that not enough effort was being put in.

 

There were certainly many reasonable points later in the post, but by that time, the sarcastic tone has been set.

 

David had already said he wasn't going to have such arguments further in his free time.

If this is how David is going to be replied to, it will hardly give confidence to others in the dev team to do likewise else they will get dog piled too.

 

There are certainly aspects of community management that could be improved upon, but that post was not in my opinion a good way to make that more likely.

[Octarin]

No need to be so condescending about it...that's not cool, its just rude.

 

Don't worry about it, he/she has a habit of doing that every time I post something. I'm used to it by now. The definition of "fan-boy/girl/thing"

[Teligth]

Nope, not bait at all.

 

(And I have no issue with Fundamentalist personally, I just think the post didn't help)

 

An angry post with sarcastic lines like "Is there a company-wide philosophy of putting in the least amount of effort to do things in order to yield results that allow you to just scrape by?"

 

The evidence was pretty feeble. References to comments from Mike Laidlaw (not Mark Darrah) to imply that not enough effort was being put in.

 

There were certainly many reasonable points later in the post, but by that time, the sarcastic tone has been set.

 

David had already said he wasn't going to have such arguments further in his free time.

If this is how David is going to be replied to, it will hardly give confidence to others in the dev team to do likewise else they will get dog piled too.

 

There are certainly aspects of community management that could be improved upon, but that post was not in my opinion a good way to make that more likely.

I feel like people at this point need to step back, have a nap, eat a cookie and come back relaxed and not so tense. I know this community has been pretty toxic, but I think it might be symptomatic of the rough year gaming had last year with the low amount of accountability. Bioware isn't guilty of this from what i've really seen, but people might be hesitant of all companies right now. Not sure if that's the case, but it's my theory.

[SofaJockey]

Don't worry about it, he/she has a habit of doing that every time I post something. I'm used to it by now. 

 

Thanks, and to be honest Octarin, I find myself getting a little snarky too 

The vast majority of angry stuff comes from people who are here not because they hate the franchise, but because they are really invested in it.

 

After three months post launch we are like [bad analogy warning] alcoholics short of a drink, so whilst I'm expecting, based on hints from the devs:

• Some player features like Loot chest, face melter, maybe others, will be added,
• Some MP and SP DLC
• Maybe some other options in mechanics for PC players

If you're invested, those things can't arrive too 'soon ^TM' can they? 

 

Sure, we have different ways of expressing it, and different levels of adoration/concern for the game as only an invested fan base can have, so we're spending more time than we should bickering among ourselves.

 

I feel like people at this point need to step back, have a nap, eat a cookie and come back relaxed and not so tense. I know this community has been pretty toxic, but I think it might be symptomatic of the rough year gaming had last year with the low amount of accountability. Bioware isn't guilty of this from what i've really seen, but people might be hesitant of all companies right now. Not sure if that's the case, but it's my theory.

 

You may be right Teligth, a good assessment.

I'm going for that cookie...

[Bocochoco]

In other words, you're just admitting you're not a good person... *sighs* And here I was, thinking I could subdue you in my infinite army of glorious Rainbow Ponies Lovers. 

He wasn't really derailing it. He was offering up the option to discuss the matter more fully by playing the devils advocate.

[Teddie Sage]

He wasn't really derailing it. He was offering up the option to discuss the matter more fully by playing the devils advocate.

Yeah, I was just playing along with that post. But Louise is a female name.

[Bocochoco]

Yeah, I was just playing along with that post. But Louise is a female name.

Is it? I always thought it to be a French Male name. Something you'd see a lot of in Nawlins

[Fundamentalist Nail]

Nope, not bait at all.

 

(And I have no issue with Fundamentalist personally, I just think the post didn't help)

 

An angry post with sarcastic lines like "Is there a company-wide philosophy of putting in the least amount of effort to do things in order to yield results that allow you to just scrape by?"

 

The evidence was pretty feeble. References to comments from Mike Laidlaw (not Mark Darrah) to imply that not enough effort was being put in.

 

There were certainly many reasonable points later in the post, but by that time, the sarcastic tone has been set.

 

David had already said he wasn't going to have such arguments further in his free time.

If this is how David is going to be replied to, it will hardly give confidence to others in the dev team to do likewise else they will get dog piled too.

 

There are certainly aspects of community management that could be improved upon, but that post was not in my opinion a good way to make that more likely.

 

 

As a general opponent of sanctimony at the best of times, all I can say is I'm sorry that my post was construed that way. And you're right, it was sanctimonious and I kind of regret breaking my forum sabbatical. Nevertheless, I had a manic outburst of "I MUST SAY THE THING" (which I don't recommend )

Anyway, the long and the short of it is: I'm not a fan of corner cutting, especially when it comes to creative content. But I also don't have the stomach or the will for debates anymore. My snark was unwarranted and I apologise

Peace comrades.

 

 

*edit* whoops I got my Marks and Mikes mixed up!

[Octarin]

Thanks, and to be honest Octarin, I find myself getting a little snarky too 

The vast majority of angry stuff comes from people who are here not because they hate the franchise, but because they are really invested in it.

 

After three months post launch we are like [bad analogy warning] alcoholics short of a drink, so whilst I'm expecting, based on hints from the devs:

• Some player features like Loot chest, face melter, maybe others, will be added,
• Some MP and SP DLC
• Maybe some other options in mechanics for PC players

If you're invested, those things can't arrive too 'soon ^TM' can they? 

 

Sure, we have different ways of expressing it, and different levels of adoration/concern for the game as only an invested fan base can have, so we're spending more time than we should bickering among ourselves.

 

 

You may be right Teligth, a good assessment.

I'm going for that cookie...

 

You are showering me with irony and sarcasm everywhere almost, and you still don't even understand what my problem is, and where it lies. I don't know if explaining it ONCE MORE will make any sort of difference, but here I go, but this is the last time. If you fail to comprehend what I say this time as well, please will you kindly refrain from replying to my posts again, as this isn't going to go anywhere. So, here it is:

 

I don't much care about absolutely anything at all, even the hairstyles that are horribly gross, or the combat system, or the boring stuff sometimes, I can live with that. What I can't live with, and neither can a large amount of other old gen console players AND PC players, is not being able to play the game. If you are interested in finding out how the game in unplaybale for us in various ways, please visit the thread on my sig, it's been there for ages, anyone can just click on it and drop by and read what our grievances are.

 

And to add insult to injury, all we're getting out of our 70 euros paid, is the silent treatment since November and a cryptic "You just have to wait, I can't say anymore than that" from a couple of forum mods. We aren't people who "don't like the game", or take exception to the way romances are handled. We are people whose game is UNPLAYABLE. 

 

This is what we seek to have addressed. I have said that numerous times, and you've read those posts as well. I hope this is the last time I have to explain, cause there really isn't much more to explain at this point. I understand you love the game and it works perfectly for you and how we put a crank to your wonderful rose-tinted view of the franchise. However, please understand, that not all people have YOUR gaming experience, and since the game works for you that doesn't mean it works for us too. Please allow people to have their just grievances in this aspect, without trolling and heaping sarcasm and irony every time we voice them.

 

Thank you. I hope this is the last time we discuss this. Personally I won't divulge in any further discussion with you. No offence, but I'm tired of you attacking me. 

[CronoDragoon]

I'm not sure if this is a bait or not, I really hope not, but he opens in a very respectful way, links evidence and supports his claim. He has a right to his opinions and I saw nothing wrong with his response. Pointing out what you think is wrong by default isn't uncivil.

Opening in a respectful way doesn't mean you can say whatever after. "Hey I really appreciate your response, but did you know you guys don't care about pleasing fans and just do the bare minimum in your jobs to get by?"

In any case his "evidence" is ridiculous. Apparently the concept of opportunity cost is lost on those wishing to prove that BioWare is lazy or doesn't care about its fans. If someone wants their opinion taken seriously they should probably demonstrate an awareness of the development process. Like, any awareness would be nice.

Having a right to your opinion doesn't protect you from criticism. In any case, he actually doesn't have a right to his opinion on this forum, just like the rest of us.

[Lumix19]

Your evidence of consistent communication is a thread that was locked a month ago?

...okay...

You know if you actually bothered to skip to the end of the thread you might see it links to another thread here.

 

Based on what I've seen BSN has been toxic for a long time and I wouldn't ask the developers to step into that, sometimes the people here are more fanatic then fan. Even some of the replies to David's post here have hardly been welcoming.

 

 

What do you see?

[Teddie Sage]

Is it? I always thought it to be a French Male name. Something you'd see a lot of in Nawlins

Louis is the male counterpart (Loo-ee). Louise (Loo-ee-ze) is french female. The alternative is Lois in english.

[Teligth]

Hi David,

I appreciate that you've taken time to post on these forums. It is nice to have communication, which is essentially what many of us have been pining for.

 

 

This is how you open respectfully.

 

Please tell me you're joking.

In any case his "evidence" is ridiculous. Apparently the concept of opportunity cost is lost on those wishing to prove that BioWare is lazy or doesn't care about its fans. If someone wants their opinion taken seriously they should probably demonstrate an awareness of the development process. Like, any awareness would be nice.

 

No it's not a joke as pointed out above. His concerns are real as well as any you might have. And by far it's the most respectful way i've seen grievances being conveyed on this forum. 

 

It points to the real issue that he has, a lack of communication. I think it's commonly shared belief here, but because of the fanatics...etc, it seems like most reps don't want to show up anymore. This however is a double edged sword or sorts. Because yes they need some space, but at the same time if we think we have been abandoned all hell can and will break loose. Why do you think we really only see mods when a topic is being locked? From this point of view it just appears as if no one is listening and when we voice our concerns, they get shut down. I'm not saying that's the case, but that feels like the general mood out there amongst some people.

 

An easier way to think of it could be how people treat religion. Said thing is introduced, aka the bible or Dragon Age, for awhile we have a few profits who speak to us. Times get rough when those voices disappear and those remaining are left with trying to make sense of it all. Those people will branch into opposing factions and before long things get brutal.  Not my analogy here might not get through to everyone, but i'm trying to make this as simple as possible, because it's kind of what is happening. Now i'm not saying they are required to talk to us, but it might be nice. To placate the community and get the flamers to cool off and simmer down.

[CronoDragoon]

This is how you open respectfully.

I edited my post to be a bit more clear, but opening respectfully doesn't mean anything if you then continue on to be disrespectful.

The lack of communication is not responsible for the toxic nature of the BSN. The devs used to post more before Dragon Age 2 happened. Before "Hamburger Helper" and other disgraceful acts. It's a convenient narrative that things would get better if the devs started posted more, because it shifts responsibility off fans to act like adults and puts the issue on BioWare's shoulders. If you only display civility when you get what you want, then you are not a civil person.

The point of view that no one is listening is a wrong one. It's off-base for two reasons: 1) Fans conflate "listen" with "implement." A good example of this is when the EC was released and some fans decided that "BioWare really wasn't listening after all." This is code, of course, and decoded it means "BioWare listened to everyone but didn't change exactly what I wanted them to do!" 2) BioWare's release history clearly demonstrates that they listen to their fans, including the BSN. Suggesting that they aren't listening just because they don't respond amounts to pouting.

Now, there are certain situations where I feel response is necessary. Such as the numerous issues with the last-gen versions of the game, or bugginess in general. But that's not what the OP was about. The OP was about content and design decisions.

[Xyxlplic]

I'm not sure if this is a bait or not, I really hope not, but he opens in a very respectful way, links evidence and supports his claim. He has a right to his opinions and I saw nothing wrong with his response. Pointing out what you think is wrong by default isn't uncivil.

You have an odd definition of respect. Implying that the person you're talking to and everyone he works with basically can't be bothered to make the required effort isn't respectful in my book. Berating a writer for the shortcomings of this forum isn't terribly helpful. And the so-called evidence he links to isn't evidence of anything except the tetchiness of the individual who was doing the tweeting.

[Nefla]

That's something they can only fix by giving the male elf a proper shoulder width for his height. Labour camp survivor will have that weird bend, even if they fix the rig. 

Because the shoulders are narrower than the chest, causing the arms to get sucked into the body? I was worried that was the case

[Teligth]

I edited my post to be a bit more clear, but opening respectfully doesn't mean anything if you then continue on to be disrespectful.

The lack of communication is not responsible for the toxic nature of the BSN. The devs used to post more before Dragon Age 2 happened. Before "Hamburger Helper" and other disgraceful acts. It's a convenient narrative that things would get better if the devs started posted more, because it shifts responsibility off fans to act like adults and puts the issue on BioWare's shoulders. If you only display civility when you get what you want, then you are not a civil person.

The point of view that no one is listening is a wrong one. It's off-base for two reasons: 1) Fans conflate "listen" with "implement." A good example of this is when the EC was released and some fans decided that "BioWare really wasn't listening after all." This is code, of course, and decoded it means "BioWare listened to everyone but didn't change exactly what I wanted them to do!" 2) BioWare's release history clearly demonstrates that they listen to their fans, including the BSN. Suggesting that they aren't listening just because they don't respond amounts to pouting.

Now, there are certain situations where I feel response is necessary. Such as the numerous issues with the last-gen versions of the game, or bugginess in general. But that's not what the OP was about. The OP was about content and design decisions.

 

I didn't say they weren't listening, I said there is a appearance of it. Not sure exactly what "Hamburger Helper" is either in the way you are using it. How exactly is it a convenient narrative? I'm saying both parties need to be accountable and act respectively, yes there will always be internet trolls, but like I said before if there is an appearance that no one is listening, even if it's not the case, people who are enraged won't pick up on that truth.

 

I'm not going to speak for OP, but you must realize that appearances are important as well. 

 

You have an odd definition of respect. Implying that the person you're talking to and everyone he works with basically can't be bothered to make the required effort isn't respectful in my book. Berating a writer for the shortcomings of this forum isn't terribly helpful. And the so-called evidence he links to isn't evidence of anything except the tetchiness of the individual who was doing the tweeting.

 

I'm saying how he presented his argument was respectful. That's as far as i'm taking it right now, because this isn't productive to the over all conversation.

[Teligth]

Because the shoulders are narrower than the chest, causing the arms to get sucked into the body? I was worried that was the case

Might require to work on a new model perhaps?