53 réponses à ce sujet

[Saphiron123]

Seriously, I was so psyched to see the dalish again... and it's like 5 people. The entire camp is one of those ship things and 5 dudes.

Why does this game have no towns... or cities... or population?

[Shechinah]

(to Saphiron123) I just always assumed a lot had been killed by the rift demons, undead and soldiers.

[Bayonet Hipshot]

Seriously, I was so psyched to see the dalish again... and it's like 5 people. The entire camp is one of those ship things and 5 dudes.

Why does this game have no towns... or cities... or population?

 

Because it is a faux-RPG.

 

Hence why we get a faux-city in the form of 2 blocks of Val Royeaux, hence why there is only a faux-underground dungeon section...

[Rawgrim]

I think a lot of them had been killed of. Some are out and about too, I think. We run into a group of them early on.

[Elhanan]

(to Saphiron123) I just always assumed a lot had been killed by the rift demons, undead and soldiers.

No assumption. The dead are scattered about the various areas, but the living do amass together during the series of final battles, I believe; might get confirmation on the last part.

[Jeffry]

Because of limited budget or laziness. Large open and mostly lifeless areas were prefered to smaller number of well crafted and well designed ones.

[Amirit]

Looks like engine can handle landscapes but not  NPC. We never see any army anywhere. The biggest, I believe, is that little flock of wardens during the siege. Hell, when we close the Breach with an ARMY of mages\templars we have how many? Seven? Five of them? I almost cry on those scenes remembering Ostagar or Denerim battles. 

[In Exile]

Because it is a faux-RPG.

Hence why we get a faux-city in the form of 2 blocks of Val Royeaux, hence why there is only a faux-underground dungeon section...

That's every RPG ever. Its straight up impossible to do a real population. The Dalish in DAO couldn't be to scale either.

[Pack_Fan116]

I figured it was BioWare's way of showing how the Dalish are becoming extinct... especially in Orlais (evidently).

I wholeheartedly agree about the cities. I thought going to Val Royeaux would be like going to Denerim in DAO x10. It was a total disappointment. Not much to do there other than do a little shopping.

[Jeffry]

Looks like engine can handle landscapes but not  NPC. We never see any army anywhere. The biggest, I believe, is that little flock of wardens during the siege. Hell, when we close the Breach with an ARMY of mages\templars we have how many? Seven? Five of them? I almost cry on those scenes remembering Ostagar or Denerim battles. 

 

Or the Demands of the Qun quest, while I loved the quest and pondering about the consequences, the presentation was pathetic. Here I was standing on a hill close to 5 weak venatori mages I could crush in seconds, but could only watch

 

 

That's every RPG ever. Its straight up impossible to do a real population. The Dalish in DAO couldn't be to scale either.

 

Skyrim did it better, you know, the game DAI was trying to immitate Also every other BW game has done this better as well, not perfectly though, since it is impossible, but still better than DAI.

[b10d1v]

I have to agree with most here Saphiron, be it some lack of vision, time, money, etc. poorly done.

[Fade-Touched-in-the-head]

I'm personally not too bothered by the lack of large, navigable urban set pieces.

But I think what's missing here is a sense that Orlais and Fereldan actually HAVE cities. Val Royeaux, as currently rendered, looks more like the entrance to a theme park than an actual city.

Compare and contrast this with ME2's Illium, for example. You're not given the run of city (just a block or two, really) but it's rendered with a real sense of scope. You FEEL as though you're in a sprawling urban metropolis even though you can't wander off very far.

In Inquisition I feel as though my mandate is to prevent Corypheus from wiping out 38 people and some farm animals.

EDIT: Additionally, if I'm meant to travel from what is presumably meant to be the center of commerce in Val Royeaux to a prison so that I can speak with Ranier, then just transition me there with a cutscene. Allow me to assume that the prison ISN'T just down the block within a shopping plaza just kitty corner from a nice restaurant. What kind of urban planning is that?

"Ahh. The marketplace. Let's see what we have here. Fancy store, fancy store, store, fancy store, park, fancy restaurant and, oh yes...a prison. It's got everything!"

[Matroska]

Because it is a faux-RPG.

 

Hence why we get a faux-city in the form of 2 blocks of Val Royeaux, hence why there is only a faux-underground dungeon section...

Oh right. I guess Origins was a faux-RPG since the capital city in that game was just a marketplace with about 10-20 people in it, then 2 backalleys copied a few times. And why Redcliffe had a population of about 15 and only enough houses for a population of around 50, meaning it was actually impossible for it to even exist: if you track back the generations, with each family having 2 children, you don't have to go back all that far until there were just 2 people living there. Oh, and Orzammar was just 3 small areas with a population of about 20-30 even though it constitutes almost all dwarves other than surface dwarves.

 

I do agree that the cities and settlements tended to feel underpopulated in DAI - or rather, not so much underpopulated as small in scope, but it's nowhere near as bad as DAO in that regard. It's also notable that this is the case in most WRPGs, even in Skyrim a "large" city has a population of a few dozen people and take a minute or two to walk across, which puts them at the same scale as a very large building rather than a city or even a town. Going back to really old RPGs, like Might and Magic, for technical reasons you didn't get anyone out in the street and about 5 vendors even in a massive city. It's nothing to do with "faux" or not. By that logic, GTA is a genuine RPG because it actually has 100s or 1000s of civilians in a large city.

[wicked cool]

I think its a combination of several things

Engine hard to create unique people. Based on beard and hair in game

Time-clearly it needed more time

Not a priority

[Jeffry]

I think its a combination of several things

Engine hard to create unique people. Based on beard and hair in game

Time-clearly it needed more time

Not a priority

 

Hmm, about the unique people, the non-special NPCs in the game seemed really bland, much more than in DAO (and on top of that there you had the ability to make them more unique easily with mods). Here they had like only 4 different hairstyles with really bleak colors. In DA2 this was similar, but I could kinda accept it, since that game was made in a year.

[DarkKnightHolmes]

Because open world was their priority so forget good side quests or populated cities, it's time to run around 3 different types of deserts.

[Mirth]

I was wondering why my Dalish elf was so eager to abandon her clan.... It consisted of 5 people, all of whom were related!

[Jeffry]

Because open world was their priority so forget good side quests or populated cities, it's time to run around 3 different types of deserts.

 

But credit where credit is due, Hissing Wastes was an awesome location. But the game could do without 1 of those other deserts (stupid Forbidden Oasis).

[Saphiron123]

That's every RPG ever. Its straight up impossible to do a real population. The Dalish in DAO couldn't be to scale either.

I can deal with a small population, but the dalish camp is 5 people. Every town in this game is populated like it's an 8 bit NES title.

The dalish clan in inquisition isn't a clan, it's a family. My family is bigger.

[In Exile]

Or the Demands of the Qun quest, while I loved the quest and pondering about the consequences, the presentation was pathetic. Here I was standing on a hill close to 5 weak venatori mages I could crush in seconds, but could only watch



Skyrim did it better, you know, the game DAI was trying to immitate Also every other BW game has done this better as well, not perfectly though, since it is impossible, but still better than DAI.

Skyrim was absolutely worse. One, it was pretending that a whole country fit inside of half of Manhattan. Two, its cities were barely the size of villages. Three, its villages were barely the size of random assortments of cabins in circles.

The sense of scale was substantially worse and far more immersion breaking. At least in my view.

[Jeffry]

Skyrim was absolutely worse. One, it was pretending that a whole country fit inside of half of Manhattan. Two, its cities were barely the size of villages. Three, its villages were barely the size of random assortments of cabins in circles.

The sense of scale was substantially worse and far more immersion breaking. At least in my view.

 

Well, the Skyrim's major cities were bigger and felt more alive than anything we have seen in DAI, this is not just my opinion, this is a fact, just look at the number of buildings, people and the covered area. People were going somewhere and actually doing something, not just standing in one place. Even some of the villages were bigger and more alive than any of the DAI's villages. Plus, you know, you could mod the sh*t out of that game and make it infinitely better.

 

Yeah, the scale is a different story, I wasn't saying Skyrim was perfect, but in this aspect it was miles better than DAI.

[Teligth]

Because it is a faux-RPG.

 

Hence why we get a faux-city in the form of 2 blocks of Val Royeaux, hence why there is only a faux-underground dungeon section...

You forgot a "Deep Roads" that is only a surface layer.

[In Exile]

Well, the Skyrim's major cities were bigger and felt more alive than anything we have seen in DAI, this is not just my opinion, this is a fact, just look at the number of buildings, people and the covered area. People were going somewhere and actually doing something, not just standing in one place. Even some of the villages were bigger and more alive than any of the DAI's villages. Plus, you know, you could mod the sh*t out of that game and make it infinitely better.

 

Yeah, the scale is a different story, I wasn't saying Skyrim was perfect, but in this aspect it was miles better than DAI.

 

But the scale is what breaks it for me. It doesn't matter that Skyrim has some worker ants that behave in ways that real humans don't. The fact that there are more buildings than in DA:I, but far less than in any realistic human settlement that purports to be of the size and scale of the settlement in Skryim, doesn't make it better. People moving around isn't actually realistic, because that's not really an accurate description of what people do expect from an isolated bird's eye view of modern cities. 

 

I get that some people love this style of game, but no one will ever convince me that worker ants in a sandbox comes even close to modelling reality. I'm not saying that DA:I does a good job. Every character is a pillar in the same of a person and the game is 98% wilderness. I just find that the small things DA:I tries to do to look slightly less static than DA:O are mildly more in tune with how real people actually behave, e.g. conversations about topical subjects. 

[luism]

Skyrim had day and night cycles on their npc's. I remember sniping some katshjt vendor and everyone around it reacting to the shot actively searching for the sniper. Npc's would sleep in their own beds, eat drink, comment on your armor , your weapons, your afflictions.


Much better done imho

[Jeffry]

I get your points In Exile. But I still think that if the NPCs display at least some level of activity (despite not based on exactly realistic behavior) it is still better than just standing on one spot the whole time or repeating the same animation over and over again like those sparring soldiers. I like that some of the NPCs comment some of the events, but that is nothing special anymore.

 

I am also interested in how this problem will be solved in Kingdom Come, since they spend a lot of time and resources in order to make the behavior of NPCs more realistic and believable.