752 réponses à ce sujet

[themageguy]

Hello everyone!

I've decided my completionist/ cannon character will be a rogue Tempest.

However, i am having great difficulty deciding on how to approach the mage/templar conflict.b

The templar one seems to flow quite well and gives you access to some great agents and gives some insight into the big bad.

Any advice or suggestions would be greatly appreciated:)

[Korva]

The templar path gives you a bit more of a "complete" picture, since you get meet some of the big players for the mage mission and learn about what's going on before locking yourself into either recruitment mission. Going with the mages leaves you pretty much in the dark about the templars. Whether what you learn about the mages sways you to do their mission or the templars' is really up to personal taste and roleplaying. IMO the templar path also works better for Dorian's and Cole's introductions. Cole really benefits from the attention he gets during Champions of the Just, while Dorian gets a brief intro at Redcliffe as one of the mage-mission-people you can talk to regardless of which mission you end up picking.

 

I also like how the templar-related war table missions are all about protecting people -- innocent mages from angry non-mages, normal people from blood mages, and mages who can be redeemed from the same blood mages. That's what the templars should be. All in all, if you like redemption stories, the templars are a very good fit.

 

And yes, the templar mission itself is very enjoyable IMO. It's my go-to since I dislike some of the aspects of the mage mission a lot, but again, that is up to personal taste.

[nikki-tikki]

Not that your decision really makes a difference in the end....but headcannon (and random comments around skyhold) is that people respect Templars more than mages and even Duke Gaspard says its a better move politically and military-wise. 

 

And their quest is better. 

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

Alliance with Templars.

 

There is quite a few reasons for my choice.

 

I'll just re-quote an old post to explain why I prefer Champions over Whispers.

 

The templar path is the better one.

 

The Dorian/Cole dynamic is better on the templar path because you actually still have a chance to meet Dorian and talk to him in the Redcliffe chantry, giving you a chance to know and therefor trust him before he shows up outside the gates of Haven, meanwhile Cole have a wonderful introduction where he helps you overcome Envy in the nightmare, thereby giving you a huge reason to trust him. Contrast this with the mage path where Cole is just this weirdo showing up in front of your gates. I also prefer Dorian's dialog compared to Cole's at Haven, his snark with Cullen is quite fun.

 

The templar mission is the better crafted one on various levels. From a gameplay perspective it has a lot of variety, from a small RP moment with the flags to the breather level in the form of the nightmare, to the timed stage where depending on how fast or slow you are, Barris can die. This variety in gameplay also helps strenghten the mission's dramatic curve, making it feel really well paced that hits all the right emotional notes. The mage mission however, is just a dungeon crawler through Redcliffe castle.

 

The time travel is also a huge disfavor for the mage mission because it shatters any illusion of tension one might have. Almost everything that happens in the bad future is nothing more than cheap and consequence free-drama that won't matter once you get back to the present.  One might try to argue that the nightmare section of the templar mission is just as guilty of this, but I would disagree because to start with, the nightmare sequence does not dominate the entire mission unlike the time travel which takes up the majority of the other mission. And also because beyond the "This is what happens if you fail" warning, the nightmare sequence also serves as a warning of what you and the inquisition could become if you abuse your power. A small thing that is talked about throughout the game is characters wondering what will become of the inquisition once Cory is stopped, Cassandra wonders if the inquisition will go the way of the Seekers in that "Power became its own master" and in the end only become interested in its own well-being. The nightmare sequence serves to show some of the horros the inquisition could inflict if you were nothing more than a self-serving tyrant.

 

The difference between Calpernia and Samson also favors the templar path. While both villains by themselves feel somewhat meh, Calpernia wins out because her character and mission helps flesh out Cory more and help show a more human side to him which Cory's character sorely needs. That said, Samson does however show a bit more of Cullen so if that is what you want then I guess Samson is better. 

 

 

Beyond that, as Korva have mentioned, the templar path feels like it gives a clearer and more complete picture of what happens. Since you can still talk to Dorian/Fiona at Redcliff before doing Champions.

 

And of course, Ser Barris is just awesome.

 

To sum it up.

 

Templar mission > Mage mission

Ser Barris > Fiona

Templar path feels like it gives a more complete narrative

Calpernia helps give more depth to Corypheus, something he sorely needs as a villain

[Rundy Bundles]

The Templar one does kinda make more sense, at least for me it did. An established order reaching out to another. I also preferred the way characters were introduced there, with Cole helping you out in the

Spoiler

Fade

and Dorian coming around after to warn you, presuming you met him first in Redcliffe's Chantry. However, the biggest difference would probably be who the Elder One's general would be. Siding with Templars gives you a female Tevinter mage who is the leader of the Venatori. Siding with Mages gives you Samson, a dude who appeared in Dragon Age 2 and is now the leader of the Red Templars. You'll still fight both Venatori and Red Templars in the game, though you'll fight one side more. But yes, like others said, siding with the Templars does flesh out the Big Bad more. I also, personally liked Calpernia but I'm biased in that

[draken-heart]

could also decide based on being in redcliffe. Thinking that Tevinter has the mages, best to go for the other group.

[themageguy]

Thankyou for the replies everyone.

Templars it is then

And they look epic when they assist the Inquisitor in closing the breach.

[Korva]

You also get one of Dorian's best snark-lines that way. "For a templar, you think like a blood mage." 

[themageguy]

You also get one of Dorian's best snark-lines that way. "For a templar, you think like a blood mage."

Oh who to and when does he say that????

[nikki-tikki]

Oh who to and when does he say that????

 

To Cullen when deciding what course of action to take when Haven is being attacked. 

[Carmen_Willow]

I much prefer the Templar mission for all of the reasons stated by others.  It's a better move politically, the quest itself is better, the war table quests about the Templars are awesome, Ser Barris is awesome, and the confrontation with Calpernia at the end makes more sense. 

 

And from a role-playing stance, mages have been prisoners for a thousand years. They've been captives and limited for generations. The fact that they expect the inquisition to solve their problems at the camp at Haven show how ill suited they are to being an effective part of the military force we are creating. This isn't their fault, but it is a real problem. Most of the Circle mages have no clue as to how to take responsibility for themselves. They weren't allowed to do it before. Look at the terrible decision they made when threatened after the explosion: they went right back into servitude because that's what they know. There is probably only one mage in a hundred who can break the mold as an adult. While I want mages to be free, it's going to take an entire generation of mages being free from childhood to achieve that.

 

That said, you still need to do the quest at least once to see just how bloody awful the world will be if Cory gets his way.

[Vilio1]

Not that your decision really makes a difference in the end....but headcannon (and random comments around skyhold) is that people respect Templars more than mages and even Duke Gaspard says its a better move politically and military-wise. 
 
And their quest is better.

Gaspard also says that recruiting the mages was a brilliant move. He wants your support, that's why he always compliments the Inquisitor.

I did play the templar quest once, probably won't do it again. I thought "In Hushed Wispers" was much better. It has better characters, it gives the Inquisition an actual glimpse at what it needs to stop from happening and the time travel with Dorian is really interesting - altough I must admit I'm a bit biased because the templars pretty much epitomize everything I despise.

[Sir DeLoria]

Yeah, the Templar quests are way better imo.

[c00lgy24]

Yup like many have said Templars is the way to go however my suggestion , don't go to Redcliffe if you want to be on equal footing with Dorian approval wise when you do get him otherwise you have to really watch what you say when you do get to recruit him .

[nikki-tikki]

Yup like many have said Templars is the way to go however my suggestion , don't go to Redcliffe if you want to be on equal footing with Dorian approval wise when you do get him otherwise you have to really watch what you say when you do get to recruit him .

 

Just flirt with him. Works every time. 

[c00lgy24]

Just flirt with him. Works every time.

lol for some of us sure but if you just want a snarky friend can't rely on heart icons

[Qun00]

For a Circle supporting mage, siding with the Templars is the best opportunity to change things from inside out.

[Iakus]

Barris>Fiona

[Digger1967]

I guess I'm in the minority here - I hated the Templar quest.  The envy demon.. geez, does that guy ever shut up?  As Iron Bull so quaintly put it (later on in game dialogue), I hate the talky ones.

 

The quest itself at first was way to heavy on dialogue and cut scenes and that annoying run around in the dark and go to point A,B,C,D and then back again - and as for the second part of the quest the timer thing where I keep having to run back to save the Templars bacon is just annoying.  I mean how is it that these guys are supposedly worth taking on as ally's if they need me to save them ever 3 minutes or so?

 

As for Cole - ick.  Hate everything about that character, and the fact that the game seems to love him so much annoys me even more to be honest.  Seems like you get 300 amulets of power for Cole and Varrick for every one you get for any other character. 

 

What really irritated me was initially I did the Templar quest, then I started a new character and went with the mages.  When doing the mage run through I refused Cole's services and sent him packing, just didn't make sense to me that with everything else going on I'd want this irritating, angsty demon/spirit thingy joining my ranks.  After that the game nagged me about it over and over and over again on the screens the appear when something is loading - something about the fact that I didn't let Cole join up.

 

So this time around, I went with the mages again - and now that I'm in Skyhold, I just avoid going anywhere near where Cole is so I don't trigger that cut scene and it never asks me to decide to have him join.  He can sit in the courtyard in that stupid hat till hades freezes over as far as I'm concerned.. lol.

 

As for the mages quest, I did rather like that one.  A lot more to do, and wow - if you like crafting your own equipment you get oodles and oodles of schematics if your looting the way you should going the mage quest route.

 

Storyline wise.. the time travel thing?  Ok, ugh. have to admit it's pretty awful.  Hopefully at some point someone will realize that Star Trek beat that horse to death, resurrected it a dozen times and beat it to death each time years ago.  Time to stick a fork in all time travel/holodeck style plotlines, they've been done to death and beyond.

 

Just my 2 cents worth of course, YMMV

[thesuperdarkone2]

I guess I'm in the minority here - I hated the Templar quest.  The envy demon.. geez, does that guy ever shut up?  As Iron Bull so quaintly put it (later on in game dialogue), I hate the talky ones.

 

The quest itself at first was way to heavy on dialogue and cut scenes and that annoying run around in the dark and go to point A,B,C,D and then back again - and as for the second part of the quest the timer thing where I keep having to run back to save the Templars bacon is just annoying.  I mean how is it that these guys are supposedly worth taking on as ally's if they need me to save them ever 3 minutes or so?

 

As for Cole - ick.  Hate everything about that character, and the fact that the game seems to love him so much annoys me even more to be honest.  Seems like you get 300 amulets of power for Cole and Varrick for every one you get for any other character. 

 

What really irritated me was initially I did the Templar quest, then I started a new character and went with the mages.  When doing the mage run through I refused Cole's services and sent him packing, just didn't make sense to me that with everything else going on I'd want this irritating, angsty demon/spirit thingy joining my ranks.  After that the game nagged me about it over and over and over again on the screens the appear when something is loading - something about the fact that I didn't let Cole join up.

 

So this time around, I went with the mages again - and now that I'm in Skyhold, I just avoid going anywhere near where Cole is so I don't trigger that cut scene and it never asks me to decide to have him join.  He can sit in the courtyard in that stupid hat till hades freezes over as far as I'm concerned.. lol.

 

As for the mages quest, I did rather like that one.  A lot more to do, and wow - if you like crafting your own equipment you get oodles and oodles of schematics if your looting the way you should going the mage quest route.

 

Storyline wise.. the time travel thing?  Ok, ugh. have to admit it's pretty awful.  Hopefully at some point someone will realize that Star Trek beat that horse to death, resurrected it a dozen times and beat it to death each time years ago.  Time to stick a fork in all time travel/holodeck style plotlines, they've been done to death and beyond.

 

Just my 2 cents worth of course, YMMV

From what I can tell, the templar supporters are still a minority anywhere else but BSN. Remember, the Templar supporters are still a vocal minority and are only talking because this is the first game which doesn't show the faction bad sides while emphasizing some of their good traits. Wonder how many templar supporters would still exist if they were portrayed negatively in subsequent games or if some of the templar negatives were shown if you side with them, such as some templars refusing to help you if you were a mage or a templar raping an inquisition mage.

[AresKeith]

Thankyou for the replies everyone.

Templars it is then

And they look epic when they assist the Inquisitor in closing the breach.

 

Barris>Fiona

 

[Digger1967]

Lol, ok.

 

Well I should probably clarify, I never played any of the previous versions of the game so this is my first foray into this particular storyline.  From a story perspective I think that either choice has clear advantages and disadvantages, so my commentary is really meant more from the in game playability aspects more than it is the story flow/world dynamic.

 

As for Cole, my first thought is how is it that you could possibly be sure he really isn't the Envy Demon?  I mean maybe it's just me but that's what I do if I were the Envy demon and not making any progress in possessing the inquisitor, just pass myself off as Cole and "help" to get in his good graces.

 

If you take the Templar quest I guess if you are an incredibly trusting soul who's never been in a bad relationship once in your entire life you might be able to talk yourself into taking Cole from an RP standpoint.

 

On the mage side however, he just shows up outside the gate and the next time you talk to him he wants to knife some of your wounded.  So for me it was a very clear, don't bother packing your bags we already packed them for you sort of choice.

 

Again, I might be in the minority here.. lol.  But I guess I just don't see how after losing all of those people at Haven it could possibly be considered either sane or rational to take Cole entirely at face value, regardless of which quest you choose.

[Lady Artifice]

I am intensely, aggressively pro-mage and I still enjoyed the Templar story line a little more. 

 

There is a rationale behind a mage player going to the Templars. There's something about Redcliff that feels "off" right from the beginning. Admittedly, both missions have something off about them, but all things being equal...A pro-mage player can conscript the Templars.  

 

The most notable thing one misses out on when doing the Templar side is some great interaction with Dorian.

[Carmen_Willow]

"From what I can tell, the templar supporters are still a minority anywhere else but BSN. Remember, the Templar supporters are still a vocal minority and are only talking because this is the first game which doesn't show the faction bad sides while emphasizing some of their good traits. Wonder how many templar supporters would still exist if they were portrayed negatively in subsequent games or if some of the templar negatives were shown if you side with them, such as some templars refusing to help you if you were a mage or a templar raping an inquisition mage."

 

Excuse me, but the Templars in Origins (not Awakenings) were, for the most part, decent enough. Cullen was, as was the Knight-Commander, can't think of his name. They were set upon by Abominations and most of them wiped out, but the Knight-Commander still gives the Warden a chance to save those mages and Templars who are still alive. 

 

Templars are essentially jailors.  In any system where there are jailors, you are going to have those in authority who abuse that power. Certainly the Kirkwall Circle is a prime example of what happens when authority looks the other way too long with the minions abuse their charges.  But just as you cannot condemn all mages for the actions of some, it is equally unfair to condemn all Templars for the actions of some.

 

The question is not whether or not there should be mage prisons--some mages are evil and capable of great destruction. They need to be confined. The question has always been SHOULD ALL MAGES BE IMPRISONED simply for being mages? I think the answer is "no," but I also understand why Templars need to exist in a world where insane mages can ignite entire villages or become Pride Demons.