752 réponses à ce sujet

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

the IT was 10X better than this

 

Ten times as stupid perhaps.

[Addai]

I want a citation of a good leader agrees with your determination of what was best and why. Including your assessment of what their needs and relevant strengths are.

 

You claiming 'common-sense' to short-circuit a challenge doesn't quite suffice. Not unless you're a good commander whose common sense could be expected to be valid on military matters, of course.

I said a good commander chooses how to deploy troops according to their needs, not that a good commander told me to conscript the templars. That would be stupid, which is what this conversation is. As well as being finished.

[raging_monkey]

Ten times as stupid perhaps.

in hindsight yes but id prefer the IT babble to "mages were brained and not their fault"

[Steelcan]

IT doesn't draw support from one codex entry that may or may not exist, so it has that going for it

[raging_monkey]

IT doesn't draw support from one codex entry that may or may not exist, so it has that going for it

did i say it did? If thats the codex in question i think neither have any substance

[Dean_the_Young]

I said a good commander chooses how to deploy troops according to their needs, not that a good commander told me to conscript the templars. That would be stupid, which is what this conversation is.

 

At least we can agree that your initial argument bringing up 'good commander' stuff in support of your ally/conscription assessment was rather silly.

 

 

As well as being finished.

 

Yes, yes, do enjoy your last word.

[Dean_the_Young]

So you haven't seen it I take it.

 

If I can get a screenshot of the codex entry in question or a twitter from David Gaider confirming it. I will gladly concede to the point and accept that the mages were indeed brainwashed if not saved.

 

As it is, this whole "Mages were brainwashed" is starting to become the Dragon Age equivalent of the Indoctrination Theory.

 

Or the 'The Illusive Man was always indoctrinated for the Reapers' theory. Though that one was based more on anachronism of the Cerberus station recording of the surgury, but argued that TIM was indoctrinated for decades despite all other indoctrination knowledge.

 

Though minor, there's also an unsupported 'Fiona was a victim of blood magic' theory.

[Steelcan]

did i say it did? If thats the codex in question i think neither have any substance

Well IT draws predominately on in game evidence supported by codex descriptions in some cases, it is not based off a single dropped note

[Boost32]

Well IT draws predominately on in game evidence supported by codex descriptions in some cases, it is not based off a single dropped note

But there is in game evidence that the mages might have been brainwashed, the Grey Wardens mages were brainwashed for example.

[raging_monkey]

But there is in game evidence that the mages might have been brainwashed, the Grey Wardens mages were brainwashed for example.

circumstancial at best imo

[Steelcan]

But there is in game evidence that the mages might have been brainwashed, the Grey Wardens mages were brainwashed for example.

that's evidence that brainwashing is possible (though obviously the threat of the Calling cannot be used)  not evidence it occured

[ComedicSociopathy]

But there is in game evidence that the mages might have been brainwashed, the Grey Wardens mages were brainwashed for example.

 

Dorian does imply that the Venatori used blood magic to ensure the mages joined them. I've always assumed that was the case because if not then the mages look like sellouts who not only betrayed Ferelden, but also all of Thedas to an insane darkspawn magister without much persuasion.

 

At least the lower ranked Templars had the excuse of being forced fed red lyrium and put up something of a fight against their conversion. 

[Addai]

Dorian does imply that the Venatori used blood magic to ensure the mages joined them. I've always assumed that was the case because if not then the mages look like sellouts who not only betrayed Ferelden but also all of Thedas without much persuasion. At least the lower ranked Templars had the excuse of being forced fed red lyrium and put up something of a fight aganist their conversion. 

What does Dorian say about it?

[Steelcan]

Dorian does imply that the Venatori used blood magic to ensure the mages joined them. I've always assumed that was the case because if not then the mages look like sellouts who not only betrayed Ferelden, but also all of Thedas to an insane darkspawn magister without much persuasion.

 

At least the lower ranked Templars had the excuse of being forced fed red lyrium and put up something of a fight against their conversion. 

unless they were using blood magic to influence Fiona it wouldn't have mattered.  She was the one, the only one iirc, who had the sway to formalize the alliance, there wer those in favor and against it, but she had the final say

[Boost32]

Dorian does imply that the Venatori used blood magic to ensure the mages joined them. I've always assumed that was the case because if not then the mages look like sellouts who not only betrayed Ferelden, but also all of Thedas to an insane darkspawn magister without much persuasion.

 

At least the lower ranked Templars had the excuse of being forced fed red lyrium and put up something of a fight against their conversion. 

He doesnt say that, he said the Elder One didnt negotiate with them in Redcliff and he menton the rebel mages again in a banter with Bull.

Spoiler

Iron Bull: I guess the Vints will be pissed with you after warning everyone at Haven.

Dorian: Not that my warning did much good.

Iron Bull: Didn't see any rebel mages coming to do it.

Dorian: There is that. The ones who didn't join the Venatori either ran off or were killed.

Iron Bull: Ah, see? Good on you. Way to join the underdogs.

Dorian: I'm thrilled, really.

 

that's evidence that brainwashing is possible (though obviously the threat of the Calling cannot be used)  not evidence it occured

Yeah I agree with you, there is no evidence they were brainwashed, but there is a possibility they were.

[ComedicSociopathy]

What does Dorian say about it?

 

Here you go. Go to 2:24.

 

 

 

Like I said its implied by Dorian that the Venatori did something to ensure that the rebel mages did as the they asked, and I've always assumed that blood magic was involved if only because there's no way Fiona would willingly serve a darkspawn. 

[Addai]

Here you go. Go to 2:24.

 

*snip*

 

Like I said its implied by Dorian that the Venatori did something to ensure that the rebel mages did as the they asked, and I've always assumed that blood magic was involved if only because there's no way Fiona would willingly serve a darkspawn. 

Thanks! I'm not surprised. IIRC both Fiona and Clarel at one point clutch their forehead like they're trying to think through a fog  or they have a headache or something. That did make me think of blood magic when I saw it, but the developers probably left it ambiguous so we'd argue over whether they were justified or not.

[Steelcan]

more likely BioWare just likes to reuse animations, I swear every single person on Thedas and in the MEverse has a sore right arm following a battle

[Br3admax]

Yeah, is there a scene where someone doesn't clutch their forehead? 

[raging_monkey]

more likely BioWare just likes to reuse animations, I swear every single person on Thedas and in the MEverse has a sore right arm following a battle

is that what they call it now? Lol

[Ryzaki]

more likely BioWare just likes to reuse animations, I swear every single person on Thedas and in the MEverse has a sore right arm following a battle

 

Don't forget the same drink scene being reused since Jade Empire (probably earlier actually)

[TK514]

Or the tap their chin and wave their hand animation.

Here you go. Go to 2:24.
 
Like I said its implied by Dorian that the Venatori did something to ensure that the rebel mages did as the they asked, and I've always assumed that blood magic was involved if only because there's no way Fiona would willingly serve a darkspawn.

Hmm, seems a pretty big leap from what Dorian said to blood magic/mind control.

[Master Warder Z_]

Don't forget the same drink scene being reused since Jade Empire (probably earlier actually)

 

<.<

 

Kotor

[Ryzaki]

<.<

 

Kotor

 

[teh DRUMPf!!]

Hmm, seems a pretty big leap from what Dorian said to blood magic/mind control.

 

Yeah I'm not getting that impression either, watching it.