Thanks! I'm not surprised. IIRC both Fiona and Clarel at one point clutch their forehead like they're trying to think through a fog or they have a headache or something. That did make me think of blood magic when I saw it, but the developers probably left it ambiguous so we'd argue over whether they were justified or not.
It's possible it's not overt mind control but rather Avernus style blood magic, "nudging" the people to make these decisions like it's their own.
I've already asked Gaider on twitter to confirm if the mages really are brainwashed so that this whole thing finally ended. Only a matter of when he'll answer it. I swear, when people say the mages aren't brainwashed, I swear they are just trying to find any excuse to hate on the mage side. Why is this such a big issue? Is it really so hard to believe the mages are brainwashed given the evidence leans in that direction?
I've already asked Gaider on twitter to confirm if the mages really are brainwashed so that this whole thing finally ended. Only a matter of when he'll answer it.
Yes, because he likes to give concise, non-cryptic answers.
Why is this such a big issue?
Same reason you make a big issue out of everything else
*sits back with some popcorn*
Anyone want some?
*sits back with some popcorn*
Anyone want some?
What kind of seasoning?
EDIT: I decided to make my own thread. Ignore this.
I'm rather disturbed about what I've been reading. It almost sounds like the mage path, despite actually showing the doomed future, provides you with an inferior understanding of Corypheus and his larger plans. Plus Calpernia is apparently a more compelling character than Samson. If these are indeed true, then my canon revolutionary mage will have to side with the templars just to get the full story, and I hate that. Why can't both sides provide you with the same information, and simply change the context of how you learn it? By the way some people describe it, the mage path is objectively worse and keeps you ignorant of some very important details.
Actually, the mage path revealing Corypheus' plans makes more sense on the templar path. Seeing the future means you know exactly what happened whereas the templar path simply has the envy demon accidentally blab about what he's going to do which makes it quite idiotic in retrospect. Calpernia is only relevant in her side mission and in What Pride has Wrought. Apart from that, there is really no difference. Plus, the red lyrium being very prevalent makes way more sense if you side with the mages than the templars as red templars are supposed to stop being a thread if you side with the templars. Also, side with the mages and get Leliana as Divine if you really want to help mages. Siding with the Templars doesn't give as much benefit to mages as siding with the mages does. Also, you may get some extra information about corypheus if you side with hte templars but its simply his reactions to things and is nothing really necessary. Plus, Samson's quests helps give better development with Cullen as Samson could reveal what Cullen could have become if he never changed his views. It's interesting to see Cullen become quite introspective about what he could have become. Just look at the Samson thread. Also, the mage side being objectionally worse is false. Those people are just stating their opinion. Plenty of other people have also said that the mage mission is better than the templar one so simply relying on forum opinions might lead you to disappointment, especially given that people who think the mage mission is better are more numerous outside of BSN. Trust me, if you are really a hardcore pro-mage, you are going to be VERY disappointed siding with the Templars. Are you willing to abandon the mages to enslavement, brainwashing, and death for the actions of some?
I've already asked Gaider on twitter to confirm if the mages really are brainwashed so that this whole thing finally ended. Only a matter of when he'll answer it. I swear, when people say the mages aren't brainwashed, I swear they are just trying to find any excuse to hate on the mage side. Why is this such a big issue? Is it really so hard to believe the mages are brainwashed given the evidence leans in that direction?
In other words, you don't have the proof you've been claiming to have, as everyone already knew.
Actually, the mage path revealing Corypheus' plans makes more sense on the templar path. Seeing the future means you know exactly what happened whereas the templar path simply has the envy demon accidentally blab about what he's going to do which makes it quite idiotic in retrospect. Calpernia is only relevant in her side mission and in What Pride has Wrought. Apart from that, there is really no difference. Plus, the red lyrium being very prevalent makes way more sense if you side with the mages than the templars as red templars are supposed to stop being a thread if you side with the templars. Also, side with the mages and get Leliana as Divine if you really want to help mages. Siding with the Templars doesn't give as much benefit to mages as siding with the mages does. Also, you may get some extra information about corypheus if you side with hte templars but its simply his reactions to things and is nothing really necessary. Plus, Samson's quests helps give better development with Cullen as Samson could reveal what Cullen could have become if he never changed his views. It's interesting to see Cullen become quite introspective about what he could have become. Just look at the Samson thread. Also, the mage side being objectionally worse is false. Those people are just stating their opinion. Plenty of other people have also said that the mage mission is better than the templar one so simply relying on forum opinions might lead you to disappointment, especially given that people who think the mage mission is better are more numerous outside of BSN. Trust me, if you are really a hardcore pro-mage, you are going to be VERY disappointed siding with the Templars. Are you willing to abandon the mages to enslavement, brainwashing, and death for the actions of some?
Thanks for the response, but I decided to create a thread dedicated to my concerns. I didn't want to hijack this one.
Here it is:
http://forum.bioware...a-better-story/
Are you willing to abandon the mages to enslavement, brainwashing, and death for the actions of some?
Propaganda!!! Are you willing to force your cause on pro-circle mages that really didn't want to abandon their home?
In other words, you don't have the proof you've been claiming to have, as everyone already knew.
Word of God is pretty much THE ultimate proof about something. If Gaider confirms it, they is no denying it considering how every other piece of evidence has been ignored. Been then again, you don't really have any proof that mages willingly served Corypheus and all evidence supports the mages being brainwashed.
I always assumed Fiona was mindcontrolled at Haven. *shrug* The game presents her as a self-centered, short-sighted f*ckwit of the highest order, but I still don't think she'd fight to the death for Corypheus like that. Hopefully even Fiona wouldn't be stupid enough to see the whole "rise to godhood in the name of Tevinter supremacy while slaughtering half the world" nonsense as a good idea, seeing as how she's neither a Vint nor even human. Granted, she might not be in on the "godhood" plan since she's just a tool in every sense of the word at this point, but a war in the name of "Tevinter supremacy" is bad enough news on its own.
Makes sense that Alexius or his lackeys would laughingly slap the ultimate slave collar on this silly little wannabe "freedom fighter" and send her out as cannon fodder before she stirs up crap for them like she did for everyone else around her.
Propaganda!!! Are you willing to force your cause on pro-circle mages that really didn't want to abandon their home?
As Inquisitor, I'm forcing my cause on no one. All I'm trying to do is liberate Redcliffe from the Venatori.
Word of God is pretty much THE ultimate proof about something. If Gaider confirms it, they is no denying it considering how every other piece of evidence has been ignored. Been then again, you don't really have any proof that mages willingly served Corypheus and all evidence supports the mages being brainwashed.
No one is denying the validity of word of God. He was simply making the observation that instead of finally showing proof that the codex that you keep talking about is actually real, you instead went directly to asking Gaider.
But it's good somebody decided to ask David Gaider about it, if he answers we can finally put the issue to rest.
* mocking promage tone* silence we will fight til its locked rabble rabbleAll of this and the OP already made their decision.
I am on my second play-thru and went with the mages again. Next time I'll try the Templar's just for a change.
Word of God is pretty much THE ultimate proof about something. If Gaider confirms it, they is no denying it considering how every other piece of evidence has been ignored. Been then again, you don't really have any proof that mages willingly served Corypheus and all evidence supports the mages being brainwashed.
Let me try again.
Put up or shut up. If you've got the codex entry, then screenshot it, give us a location within the zone, quote the exact text, and let us know where it falls in the codex entries we can review.
The fact that you have to hang your last shreds of hope on a Gaider tweet that may never materialize instead of producing what should be easy to reference in-game materials, which everyone here would accept assuming they say what you claim they do, tells us that no such materials exist and you're desperate for an out. At this point, even if Gaider says what you want him to, without that codex entry your credibility is shot.
A Dalish could also go for the templars for another reason: get some control over them to help ensure they'll leave her people alone.
Possibly. I'd imagine allying with the autonomous mages would mean a dissolution to the Templar Order (since the remaining remnants of the order are under your command), which would be a more effective way to have the templars leave the Dalish alone by no longer being a force that could threaten the People.
Let me try again.
Put up or shut up. If you've got the codex entry, then screenshot it, give us a location within the zone, quote the exact text, and let us know where it falls in the codex entries we can review.
The fact that you have to hang your last shreds of hope on a Gaider tweet that may never materialize instead of producing what should be easy to reference in-game materials, which everyone here would accept assuming they say what you claim they do, tells us that no such materials exist and you're desperate for an out. At this point, even if Gaider says what you want him to, without that codex entry your credibility is shot.
Snap. Harsh, dude.
Fair, since requesting evidence for a lore claim is never unreasonable, but harsh.
Came here looking for some insights, but wow. This thread contained good debate on templars vs mages for literally one page before turning to absolute crap and staying that way for 14 pages more.
What are the benefits to disbanding the templar order?
What are the benefits to disbanding the templar order?
They become part of the Inquisition which strengthens it and you directly control them so they can't go be douchebags unless you order them to. Cass evens says conscripting the Templars means they will unlikely be a threat to mages in the future.
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