752 réponses à ce sujet

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

Okay. I'll have to take your word for it. I probably will never know.

 

If you doubt him then let me back his statement up. Fiona does try to kill you at Haven if you side with the templars.

[Herr Uhl]

Okay. I'll have to take your word for it. I probably will never know.

Here is a video of the boss fight, no need to take my word for it when you can see it in less than 3 minutes.

[thetinyevil]

Here is a video of the boss fight, no need to take my word for it when you can see it in less than 3 minutes.

Was that Ser-Punches-Old-Ladies. 

 

Listen I don't care if she attacks Haven if you chose the templars. I actually don't blame her. Anyway the Templars do the same things. But I don't care because I will never side with the templars. They all knew what they were doing and willing joined with Cory. None tried to run or leave. They just went along with it. So Cory can have them and I will happily cut them all down.

[Boost32]

I don't think there's any hard evidence for the theory.

 

But I happen to subscribe to it. What evidence there is to be found is in how Fiona can't remember speaking to the Inquisitor in Val Royeaux (unless there's some confirmed time magic thing happening there that I didn't catch?), and how strangely many of the Mages act when you reach Redcliffe. Alexius would also probably be very willing to resort to those measures. 

 

I think that Fiona and some of the other Mages with authority were under some blood magic influence. 

 

I've never seen any codex entries confirming it, however, so it does seem to be just a theory. 

 

Edit: Happy Birthday, btw. If that's still an up to date status. 

If they were brainwashed there would be no need to kill the ones who didnt want to join the Venatori.

[Boost32]

Was that Ser-Punches-Old-Ladies. 

 

Listen I don't care if she attacks Haven if you chose the templars. I actually don't blame her. Anyway the Templars do the same things. But I don't care because I will never side with the templars. They all knew what they were doing and willing joined with Cory. None tried to run or leave. They just went along with it. So Cory can have them and I will happily cut them all down.

Since you never did the Champin of the Just let me enlight you.

The templars commander who werent sent to the conclave knew about Corypheus, and willingly joined him.

The ranks and file of the templars didnt know the red lyrium was corrupt (its confirmed by Ser Barris in the templars quest), when they discover it they rebel against the red templars. It happens even if you dont side with them, Krem find a lot of dead bodies of templars who died when they discovered about the red lyrium and tried to rebel.

 

And you not caring about Fiona attacking Haven changes nothing, she allies with Corypheus whike Vivienne never did it.

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

Was that Ser-Punches-Old-Ladies. 

 

Listen I don't care if she attacks Haven if you chose the templars. I actually don't blame her. Anyway the Templars do the same things. But I don't care because I will never side with the templars. They all knew what they were doing and willing joined with Cory. None tried to run or leave. They just went along with it. So Cory can have them and I will happily cut them all down.

 

But this is where you are wrong.

 

Yes, there was a part of the officer corps that survived the Conclave that willingly followed Lucius/Envy in their conspiracy to destroy the templar order, but the rest? The rest were tricked and decieved into consuming the red lyrium which in turn brainwashed them.

 

As for the mages? Fiona makes a stupid decision to commit treason against Ferelden and betray the very ideals of the rebellion and the mages upon finding out about these horrible news ... almost all collectivly shrug their shoulders and go along with it. Even further, they willingly follow Corypheus when he revealed himself.

 

There is a difference here.

[Barquiel]

The templars willingly started a genocidal war and they willingly took a new type of lyrium to "clean the disease" of mages. Even if the rebell mages weren't brainwashed (and I think they were), it wouldn't change a thing for me.

[thetinyevil]

The templars willingly started a genocidal war and they willingly took a new type of lyrium to "clean the disease" of mages. Even if the rebell mages weren't brainwashed (and I think they were), it wouldn't change a thing for me.

Thank you. I couldn't get the right words but you said it perfectly. Thank you.

[Boost32]

The templars willingly started a genocidal war and they willingly took a new type of lyrium to "clean the disease" of mages. Even if the rebell mages weren't brainwashed (and I think they were), it wouldn't change a thing for me.

 

The templars objective was to get the mages back do the Circle, not kill all of them.

New forms of lyrium are given to the templars on a regular basis, so when they received the red lyrium it was not strange to them.

And please tell me, if they were brainwashed, why Dorian says mages joined the Venatori and the ones who didnt were killed?

[thetinyevil]

The templars objective was to get the mages back do the Circle, not kill all of them.

New forms of lyrium are given to the templars on a regular basis, so when they received the red lyrium it was not strange to them.

And please tell me, if they were brainwashed, why Dorian says mages joined the Venatori and the ones who didnt were killed?

Tell that to the wife of the farmer, you know the one who was killed by templars just in case he was a mage. They didn't want the mages back in the circle. They wanted them dead.

 

As for the mages who were killed when they didn't join the Venatori, they just held out longer then the others. And so where killed.

[Boost32]

Tell that to the wife of the farmer, you know the one who was killed by templars just in case he was a mage. They didn't want the mages back in the circle. They wanted them dead.

 

As for the mages who were killed when they didn't join the Venatori, they just held out longer then the others. And so where killed.

Those templars deserted the Order, and they payed for their crimes when the Inquisition killed them. And the rebels mages werent any better in the hinterlands.

 

Thats not what Dorian said, he clearly says the one who refused to join were killed, nothing about them helding the brainwash.

[Barquiel]

The templars objective was to get the mages back do the Circle, not kill all of them.
New forms of lyrium are given to the templars on a regular basis, so when they received the red lyrium it was not strange to them.
And please tell me, if they were brainwashed, why Dorian says mages joined the Venatori and the ones who didnt were killed?

Minaeve (and several other mages in the game) disagree with you.

 

The templars knew that the new lyrium is more powerful. There is for example that letter where one templar writes that he took the red lyrium to clean the disease of mages. They went on ethnic cleansing rampages for months...following bad order after bad order and knowing full well that what they were doing was illegal in the eyes of the chantry...and then they got new powerful lyrium (and most of them took it). And I am supposed to feel sorry for them?

It is hinted that there was some kind of ritual involved and you've hundreds of mages in Redcliff. I'd imagine they couldn't gather everyone at once.

[Boost32]

Minaeve (and several other mages in the game) disagree with you.

 

The templars knew that the new lyrium is more powerful. There is for example that letter where one templar writes that he took the red lyrium to clean the disease of mages. They went on ethnic cleansing rampages for months...following bad order after bad order and knowing full well that what they were doing was illegal in the eyes of the chantry...and then they got new powerful lyrium (and most of them took it). And I am supposed to feel sorry for them?

It is hinted that there was some kind of ritual involved and you've hundreds of mages in Redcliff. I'd imagine they couldn't gather everyone at once.

And the templars disagree with you:

The Order of the Templars has received a request from Perendale to remove a group of mages who have locked themselves in their former Circle Tower. The populace fears what the mages may plan for the city and, given the current disruptions in the Veil, there are real dangers to consider. We do not know the condition of the mages within. For the safety of all involved, we must address the situation before tensions rise further.

If we are to honor the faith the Herald placed on our Order, we must fulfill our sacred duties. I respectfully request that representatives of the Order be given leave to handle the situation.

 

Knight-Captain Briony

 

http://dragonage.wik...r's_Obligations

and all of your choices result in they protecting the mages and escorting them to safety.

[Barquiel]

I am fully aware that the templars have a change of heart if you do their mission...but before that (or if you side with the mages): kill them all!

[Steelcan]

I am fully aware that the templars have a change of heart if you do their mission...but before that (or if you side with the mages): kill them all!

some of them are for that, others are not

[Boost32]

I am fully aware that the templars have a change of heart if you do their mission...but before that (or if you side with the mages): kill them all!

In Asunder, the objective of Lambert was to defeat the rebel mages and lock them in the Circle again, not kill them all.

I will admit, several templar just want to kill all mages, but it is not the Order objective in the war.

[thetinyevil]

I think there was only one we seen in the game who wasn't "KILL ALL MAGES" and he killed himself to protect people from himself after he ran out of lyrium.

 

But one that really sticks with me is the templar who killed his own brother because he was a mage and there for evil.

[Herr Uhl]

Was that Ser-Punches-Old-Ladies. 

 

Listen I don't care if she attacks Haven if you chose the templars. I actually don't blame her. Anyway the Templars do the same things. But I don't care because I will never side with the templars. They all knew what they were doing and willing joined with Cory. None tried to run or leave. They just went along with it. So Cory can have them and I will happily cut them all down.

 

I don't have much of a stake in this. I'm just pointing out what happens.

 

And as others have pointed out, other than the top brass of the templars not everyone joined Cory willingly. Dissenters were executed. Much like how the mages that didn't want to join were killed in Redcliffe.

 

But you seem to have no interest in what actually happens in the game as much as just rehashing the templar vs. mage arguments that have been going for half a decade at this point.

[Lady Artifice]

If they were brainwashed there would be no need to kill the ones who didnt want to join the Venatori.

 

Wouldn't there be?

 

Sorry, can you clarify your point? I happen to believe this theory, but I'm not really going to argue for it without hard facts to support my argument. I've exhausted  the explanation of my reasons for believing it already. 

[Boost32]

Wouldn't there be?

 

Sorry, can you clarify your point? I happen to believe this theory, but I'm not really going to argue for it without hard facts to support my argument. I've exhausted  the explanation of my reasons for believing it already. 

If they were going to brainwash the mages, why kill the ones who didnt want to join? Wouldnt be better to brainwash them anyway?

[Lady Artifice]

If they were going to brainwash the mages, why kill the ones who didnt want to join? Wouldnt be better to brainwash them anyway?

 

 

I don't think they used blood magic to manipulate all of them...so, to a degree, your point is conceded. As I mentioned, I don't believe the entirety of the Mage faction was "brainwashed". It seems to me they only needed to influence Fiona, and perhaps a few of the other leaders that way, until they could be sure the rebels as a whole had absolutely no other option than to dance to their tune. 

[In Exile]

I don't think they used blood magic to manipulate all of them...so, to a degree, your point is conceded. As I mentioned, I don't believe the entirety of the Mage faction was "brainwashed". It seems to me they only needed to influence Fiona, and perhaps a few of the other leaders that way, until they could be sure the rebels as a whole had absolutely no other option than to dance to their tune.

But people left anyway. Or were killed. So clearly that didn't happen. Even if Fiona was brainwashed a great deal of Venatori recruits from their ranks were not. You can hear the ideological debate at Redcliffe.

[thesuperdarkone2]

In Asunder, the objective of Lambert was to defeat the rebel mages and lock them in the Circle again, not kill them all.

I will admit, several templar just want to kill all mages, but it is not the Order objective in the war.

Do you honestly believe that if the Templars won that hat life in the circles would go back to normal? It became obvious that if the Templars won, the mages would either be made tranquil, killed, or be forced to live in very harsh circles. Heck, at the start of Asunder, the circles really were starting to become prisons. Mages couldn't leave the circles period and they had to remain in their rooms. If they didn't rebel, it's likely the circles would start to become like the Gallows.

[Steelcan]

Do you honestly believe that if the Templars won that hat life in the circles would go back to normal? It became obvious that if the Templars won, the mages would either be made tranquil, killed, or be forced to live in very harsh circles. Heck, at the start of Asunder, the circles really were starting to become prisons. Mages couldn't leave the circles period and they had to remain in their rooms. If they didn't rebel, it's likely the circles would start to become like the Gallows.

at least for a while until tensions were reduced and there was less "let's blow up buildings" sentiment from the mages

[Archdemon_Urthemiel]

So is the brainwashing talk moved to hear now? If so, I'd like to know, what information supports the mages not being brainwashed. By this, I mean cold hard facts like codexes, dialogue, and outside information like the guide.

Another thing, why aren't Templars brought up as being brainwashed or not? I've only seen people mention the mages but never the possibility that Templars are willingly helping Corypheus? Can someone explain?