at least for a while until tensions were reduced and there was less "let's blow up buildings" sentiment from the mages
The Circles didn't even do anything. The Templars decided to punish all mages for something they didn't even do. If the Templars didn't punish the mages, I doubt the rebellion would have ever occurred if the templars didn't decide to turn the circles into actual prisons for something they never did.
So is the brainwashing talk moved to hear now? If so, I'd like to know, what information supports the mages not being brainwashed. By this, I mean cold hard facts like codexes, dialogue, and outside information like the guide.
Another thing, why aren't Templars brought up as being brainwashed or not? I've only seen people mention the mages but never the possibility that Templars are willingly helping Corypheus? Can someone explain?
It is hard to disprove a negative.What happened to the templars is obvious if you've done champions of the just. There isn't really much to discuss there.
I haven't done COTJ or IHW yet as I have spoiled the game myself but I have heard the Templar leadership willingly served Corypheus so what is there to say the Templars also didn't think the same. Denam can be recruited as an agent so it doesn't really support the Templars being brainwashed. How is that possible?
I haven't done COTJ or IHW yet as I have spoiled the game myself but I have heard the Templar leadership willingly served Corypheus so what is there to say the Templars also didn't think the same. Denam can be recruited as an agent so it doesn't really support the Templars being brainwashed. How is that possible?
Simply put, pro-templars are just making up excuses to hate on the mages. This site is literally the only place that even has that notion. Check this post someone put on reddit:
http://www.reddit.co...et_brainwashed/
There is no reason to believe they aren't brainwashed except to make up another excuse to hate on them. Why do people insist on saying the mages aren't brainwashed? They are both brainwashed, end of story.
Simply put, pro-templars are just making up excuses to hate on the mages. This site is literally the only place that even has that notion. Check this post someone put on reddit:
http://www.reddit.co...et_brainwashed/
There is no reason to believe they aren't brainwashed except to make up another excuse to hate on them. Why do people insist on saying the mages aren't brainwashed? They are both brainwashed, end of story.
and once you have provided actual evidence, we will stop raising it "I want it to be true" is not evidence
There are codex entries about what happened to the higher ups that started suspecting foul play from Lucius and his chums that you find during COTJ. They were killed.I'm sure that there were templars in the rank and file that agreed, but it wasn't unanimous. The ones that were hooked to red lyrium were brainwashed in a way though.
Doesn't red lyrium just give you power and turn you insane? How can it brainwash?
There are codex entries about what happened to the higher ups that started suspecting foul play from Lucius and his chums that you find during COTJ. They were killed.
I'm sure that there were templars in the rank and file that agreed, but it wasn't unanimous. The ones that were hooked to red lyrium were brainwashed in a way though.
I wouldn't call them brainwashed. It just muddies the issue. I would say they were addicted and corrupted, however.
Ultimately, everyone already admits that the new Templar leadership as of COTJ joined Corypheus for the power he was offering. Some of them did so because they were insane, like the Lord Seeker, some did so because they wanted it. The rank and file are split between those that followed orders and were themselves corrupted, and those who suspected something was up and ultimately rebelled.
I haven't read every post on the subject, but I don't recall anyone straight up claiming the Templars were unequivocably brainwashed. Not saying it hasn't happened, but it's definitely not a majority opinion. For the most part they were led astray by leadership that was insane or stupid.
Doesn't red lyrium just give you power and turn you insane? How can it brainwash?
well there's the simple "we hold your lyrium leash now" and there's some sort of link between red lyrium and the Blight so Corypheus could control them that way
I wouldn't call them brainwashed. It just muddies the issue. I would say they were addicted and corrupted, however.
Ultimately, everyone already admits that the new Templar leadership as of COTJ joined Corypheus for the power he was offering. Some of them did so because they were insane, like the Lord Seeker, some did so because they wanted it. The rank and file are split between those that followed orders and were themselves corrupted, and those who suspected something was up and ultimately rebelled.
I haven't read every post on the subject, but I don't recall anyone straight up claiming the Templars were unequivocably brainwashed. Not saying it hasn't happened, but it's definitely not a majority opinion. For the most part they were led astray by leadership that was insane or stupid.
Denam betrays you if he is made a agent, he set a trap for yours soldiers and flee, he never intended to help you.I haven't done COTJ or IHW yet as I have spoiled the game myself but I have heard the Templar leadership willingly served Corypheus so what is there to say the Templars also didn't think the same. Denam can be recruited as an agent so it doesn't really support the Templars being brainwashed. How is that possible?
Would Bioware really have one side brainwashed to serve Cory and the other willingly follow him?
Because there is nothing indicating it, only a guide that is not made by Bioware.Guess bad leadership can wind up destroying both sides. One side does bad things out of desperation, the other does it because they were ordered to. Still, why do people insist the mages aren't brainwashed if you side with the Templars? Is It that hard to believe? Would Bioware really have one side brainwashed to serve Cory and the other willingly follow him?
No I dont.Do you honestly believe that if the Templars won that hat life in the circles would go back to normal? It became obvious that if the Templars won, the mages would either be made tranquil, killed, or be forced to live in very harsh circles. Heck, at the start of Asunder, the circles really were starting to become prisons. Mages couldn't leave the circles period and they had to remain in their rooms. If they didn't rebel, it's likely the circles would start to become like the Gallows.
Guess bad leadership can wind up destroying both sides. One side does bad things out of desperation, the other does it because they were ordered to. Still, why do people insist the mages aren't brainwashed if you side with the Templars? Is It that hard to believe? Would Bioware really have one side brainwashed to serve Cory and the other willingly follow him?
It doesn't fit with anything we see in game. If someone can show me proof, in game, that the mages were brainwashed, I'll be happy to admit it. But there's nothing. There are a lot of other arguments I would accept, starting with bad writing, but brainwashing isn't one of them.
Because there is nothing indicating it, only a guide that is not made by Bioware.
And again, Dorian says the ones who didnt want to join the Venatori were killed. Why kill them if you can brainwash them? It would be stupid to brainwash the ones who joined and kill the ones who didnt.
Do you really think the entire mage rebellion would sit by and do nothing if the Venatori essentially said "Hey, we're going to brainwash you into being our mindless slaves now". Have you considered that some fought back but were killed? Do you think the children would be able to fight back? Also, if the ritual in Leliana's briefing of the redcliffe caslte mission is the brainwashing ritual, apparently they still haven't finished by the time the Inquisitor got the templars. Apparently the ritual takes time. I think the mages wouldn't agree if their friends became mindless vegetables.
Do you really think the entire mage rebellion would sit by and do nothing if the Venatori essentially said "Hey, we're going to brainwash you into being our mindless slaves now". Have you considered that some fought back but were killed? Do you think the children would be able to fight back? Also, if the ritual in Leliana's briefing of the redcliffe caslte mission is the brainwashing ritual, apparently they still haven't finished by the time the Inquisitor got the templars. Apparently the ritual takes time. I think the mages wouldn't agree if their friends became mindless vegetables.
Prove it. Show us the dialog, or the text, or the codex entry that says the ritual they are performing is to brainwash the mages.
I think a few mages tried to stop Corypheus, when they were slaughthered the others saw no way to fight back, so they had 2 choices, either die or join the Venatori.Do you really think the entire mage rebellion would sit by and do nothing if the Venatori essentially said "Hey, we're going to brainwash you into being our mindless slaves now". Have you considered that some fought back but were killed? Do you think the children would be able to fight back? Also, if the ritual in Leliana's briefing of the redcliffe caslte mission is the brainwashing ritual, apparently they still haven't finished by the time the Inquisitor got the templars. Apparently the ritual takes time. I think the mages wouldn't agree if their friends became mindless vegetables.
No I dont.
If Lambert had own, he would force the Chantry to overtrhow Justinia and pick one who is alligned with his way of thinking.
The Circles would opress the mages, some of them would be like Kirkwall again.
Tthats their objective, not kill all mages.
Ah, surrender and be put in a circle that will become a prison as worse as Kirkwall or die. Totally not a good reason to fight back /s
Dont put worlds in my mouth.Ah, surrender and be put in a circle that will become a prison as worse as Kirkwall or die. Totally not a good reason to fight back /s
She personally attacks you and you have to kill her.
No I dont.
If Lambert had own, he would force the Chantry to overtrhow Justinia and pick one who is alligned with his way of thinking.
The Circles would opress the mages, some of them would be like Kirkwall again.
Tthats their objective, not kill all mages.
Still waiting on that codex entry.
Still sittin' here, waiting.
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