752 réponses à ce sujet

[Sports72Xtrm]

I also find it funny that pro-templars see a templar go bad and say "that's just an exception. you can't condemn them all for what they did" and yet whenever a mage uses blood magic or becomes an abomination, they go "see, we were right. all mages are corrupt/incompetent". I support a circle system but not the way it is now. Letting templars believe they have divine right to punish mages is just asking for abuses. Heck, the codex entry for templars says that the chantry prefers templars that are fanatical in their faith rather than moral ones. In other words, the chantry would prefer someone like Meredith to someone like Barris or Evangeline. Heck, even Gregoir was willing to beat up a pregnant mage in the dragon age comic released before DAO came out. 

 

Even if the templars are reformed, DA2 and Inquisition have pretty much confirmed that corrupt leadership can damn the templars and thus the mages. Thrask and Samson imply that the Gallows wasn't the rape and abuse prison it is now before Meredith came to power. Inquisition pretty much confirmed much of the templar leadership was corrupt and if you don't side with them, the templar order is competely corrupted. All it takes is one bad leader and the templars will become like the ones in Kirkwall. I can never justify the possibility of rape, abuse, and taking people's children right from their arms and telling them they will never see them again. Thank goodness that Leliana permanently disbands the templars and allows mages to form their own independent circle system. I think the future for mages will be brighter without the templars.

I'm not against the templar as an order. I think Leliana and Cassandra's seekers can make southern thedas better if they inspire future generations to get their **** together. There's no guarantee that the college will fare any better. I just think whatever group the Inquisitor sides with, Leliana's message of freedom and justice takes root.

[Master Warder Z_]

Except she was going to before Alexius used his time magic. Dorian outright confirms Alexius used time magic to steal the mages from you. If Alexius didn't exist, Fiona's first choice would have been the Inquisition.

Like if the Knight Vigilant had survived he would have turned the Templars towards the force that created the breach?

What ifs are irrelevant.

It's not the story bioware told.

[AresKeith]

Which would make perfect sense.

 

You know if he did some loon would've gone looking for it.

 

Especially Dwarves 

 

Except she was going to before Alexius used his time magic. Dorian outright confirms Alexius used time magic to steal the mages from you. If Alexius didn't exist, Fiona's first choice would have been the Inquisition.

 

She knows that which is she said "if we're going to play that game"

[raging_monkey]

You'd think ya'll be tuckered out

[AresKeith]

And Barris says a lot of the templars wants to help to seal the breach, but their commanders wants them to stay in Therinfal.

 

Hell the Red Templars even killed the Knight Vigilant and other high rank members to stop them from getting in the way 

[Master Warder Z_]

Hell the Red Templars even killed the Knight Vigilant and other high rank members to stop them from getting in the way

Just mentioned that in fact.

[Warden Commander Aeducan]

Hell the Red Templars even killed the Knight Vigilant and other high rank members to stop them from getting in the way 

I thought we also seen this with our own eyes when we're visiting Therinfal Redoubt.

[Sports72Xtrm]

I agree with you.

 

So does Ser Barris, BTW, saying the Templars should never have forgotten their duty. And they accept the Inquisition absorbing them pretty graciously.

 

So tell me, then, what does it say of the mages when they blindly follow inept leadership, later the whims of a Tevinter magister, and possibly an ancient Darkspawn magister -- with even less restrictions in their way than the Templars and no chemical addictions?

It tells me you dismiss the mages' persecution and lack of options to even consider that they were under duress and manipulated. If someone had time magic and was going back in time to mess with your life, you think it would be fair to judge someone setting you in a path you'd never taken if someone made you fear for your life? Mages are hunted and killed like animals. Everyone pities them when war isn't coming to their home, others would throw them to the wolves when they fear their life is in danger.

 

Varric once said, a person could live just fine if they show they aren't a victim or a threat. But mages don't have that option. To muggles, they will always see them as a threat. And templars like Lambert reinforces the notion of seeing mages as monsters instead of people that need help. It was a tough call and I don't fault a desperate being doing desperate things.

[Archdemon_Urthemiel]

Man, is the brainwashing debate really this contentious? Man everyone should chill he **** out! Can't we all just a accept that we have our sides and end this?

[Master Warder Z_]

God this garbage while entertaining to read really does show the only pro mages left are the far end of the spectrum.

[thesuperdarkone2]

It tells me you dismiss the mages' persecution and lack of options to even consider that they were under duress and manipulated. If someone had time magic and was going back in time to mess with your life, you think it would be fair to judge someone setting you in a path you'd never taken if someone made you fear for your life? Mages are hunted and killed like animals. Everyone pities them when war isn't coming to their home, others would throw them to the wolves when they fear their life is in danger.

 

Varric once said, a person could live just fine if they show they aren't a victim or a threat. But mages don't have that option. To muggles, they will always see them as a threat. And templars like Lambert reinforces the notion of seeing mages as monsters instead of people that need help. It was a tough call and I don't fault a desperate being doing desperate things.

Yeah, and that whole "they were just following orders thing" just doesn't hold water for me. If they really wanted to close the breach, they would have left and joined the Inquisition. There are already templars in the Inquisition already. Plus, the following orders thing has been used to justify various atrocities IRL. If a templar was ordered to kill an entire group of mage children, apparently it's okay since he was just following orders. I will NEVER justify that. Bet all those people saying the templars were just following orders would be okay with torturing and killing an innocent person if a superior ordered it.

[Boost32]

Man, is the brainwashing debate really this contentious? Man everyone should chill he **** out! Can't we all just a accept that we have our sides and end this?

Do you think this is heated? No one invoked godwin's law or calle someone "genocide lover".

Its actually pretty tame, compared to some BSN discussion.

[Archdemon_Urthemiel]

God this garbage while entertaining to read really does show the only pro mages left are the far end of the spectrum.

I've seen plenty of Templar supporters act the same way. This will never end unless both sides accept that they are extreme.

[AresKeith]

Yeah, and that whole "they were just following orders thing" just doesn't hold water for me. If they really wanted to close the breach, they would have left and joined the Inquisition. There are already templars in the Inquisition already. Plus, the following orders thing has been used to justify various atrocities IRL. If a templar was ordered to kill an entire group of mage children, apparently it's okay since he was just following orders. I will NEVER justify that. Bet all those people saying the templars were just following orders would be okay with torturing and killing an innocent person if a superior ordered it.

 

You really the same can go for the Rebel Mages right?

[raging_monkey]

God this garbage while entertaining to read really does show the only pro mages left are the far end of the spectrum.

but im still your favorite right haha

[Master Warder Z_]

I've seen plenty of Templar supporters act the same way. This will never end unless both sides accept that they are extreme.

o.o purging the magi?

Edit: especially the children.

[AresKeith]

I've seen plenty of Templar supporters act the same way. This will never end unless both sides accept that they are extreme.

 

If only

 

That's why I'm glad Bioware is finally done with the Mage/Templar arc

[Archdemon_Urthemiel]

o.o purging the magi?

It's comments like this that make me wonder if the Mage supporters are right. Guess you and superdark might as we'll be alternate versions of each other.

[AresKeith]

It's comments like this that make me wonder if the Mage supporters are right. Guess you and superdark might as we'll be alternate versions of each other.

 

They really are mirror images of each other

[Master Warder Z_]

It's comments like this that make me wonder if the Mage supporters are right. Guess you and superdark might as we'll be alternate versions of each other.

Bah I was joking, I can do that.

Ideally the rebellion could have just been crushed and business resume as normal.

That's my opinion on this matter in it's entirety.

Simple bear bones solutions work best for things like this.

[teh DRUMPf!!]

It tells me you dismiss the mages' persecution and lack of options to even consider that they were under duress and manipulated. If someone had time magic and was going back in time to mess with your life, you think it would be fair to judge someone setting you in a path you'd never taken if someone made you fear for your life? Mages are hunted and killed like animals. Everyone pities them when war isn't coming to their home, others would throw them to the wolves when they fear their life is in danger.

 

Varric once said, a person could live just fine if they show they aren't a victim or a threat. But mages don't have that option. To muggles, they will always see them as a threat. And templars like Lambert reinforces the notion of seeing mages as monsters instead of people that need help. It was a tough call and I don't fault a desperate being doing desperate things.

 

You do realize that "duress and manipulated" can also be said for the Templars too, right?

 

Guess what? I held the mages to the same standard as I did for the Templars (I did not excuse either for their mistake). I am no more dismissive of the mages' issues than I am for the Templars. You, OTOH, exhibit a clear double-standard in holding the two groups accountable.

[Archdemon_Urthemiel]

They really are mirror images of each other

Long lost brothers?

[Master Warder Z_]

They really are mirror images of each other

That's insulting.

I don't rant and rave about how the Templars were forced into war by the actions of a few extremists.

[thesuperdarkone2]

Long lost brothers?

I'm the smarter and better looking one.

[Master Warder Z_]

Long lost brothers?

o.o I don't even recall you.