752 réponses à ce sujet

[TK514]

 

I'm rather averse to the phrase "brainwashing." It isn't a very good word for what it usually describes, and what it describes is really not what is being suggested in the case of Redcliffe...or what is ever happening in a blood magic mind control scenario. That might seem nitpicky, but it's an important distinction, imo. 

 

I agree wholeheartedly.  Brainwashing doesn't fit anyone in the scenarios described.  Coercion, mind control, and extortion are all better terms, depending on the scenario one believes.

[Warden Commander Aeducan]

then they need more lotion
But yeah it was nice

They certainly do.

I wish it last even little longer.

Honestly I *am* a moderate. It's why I always conscript the templars and if not for Fiona I could side with the mages too.

I'm just tired of being demonized for not rolling out the welcome wagon.

Believe it or not, but I used to be one of the hard core, radical pro-mage but now I'm honestly just a moderate, mage sympathizer, and newly templar sympathizer. I find it easier to sympathize with the Templars in DAI, but I conscripted them nontheless. If not for Fiona I would side with the Rebel Mages.

I hate and tired of being demonized as well.

[Lady Artifice]

you won me over i used to be a zealot now im a joker and moderate.. occasionally case by case XD

 

I still think you're more moderate than I am these days. My opinion on Chantry involvement in the circle is entirely negative...

 

 

Your welcome under my banner.

o.o Pro Stability.

 

 

...making this a little more funny to me. 

 

I'm really pretty certain you'd despise my ideas about circle reform, Z.

[raging_monkey]

They certainly do.
I wish it last even little longer.Believe it or not, but I used to be one of the hard core, radical pro-mage but now I'm honestly just a moderate, mage sympathizer, and newly templar sympathizer. I find it easier to sympathize with the Templars in DAI, but I conscripted them nontheless. If not for Fiona I would side with the Rebel Mages.
I hate and tired of being demonized as well.

thats what she said lol. and you get used too it but some fitting of the criteria imo

I still think you're more moderate than I am these days. My opinion on Chantry involvement in the circle is entirely negative...
 
 

 
 
...making this a little more funny to me. 
 
I'm really pretty certain you'd despise my ideas about circle reform, Z.

its more lazyness i only get serious when told "monkey opinion now!" Til then im busting chops. And i think we share the same opinion on chantry involvement

[Ryzaki]

Yeah the Chantry is just...ugh.

 

I took every chance I had to say they were incompetent. Because man were they a bunch of buffons.

[raging_monkey]

Yeah the Chantry is just...ugh.
 
I took every chance I had to say they were incompetent. Because man were they a bunch of buffons.

Yeah the Chantry is just...ugh.
 
I took every chance I had to say they were incompetent. Because man were they a bunch of buffons.

agreed so satifying saying "uh not with the chantry"

[DuskWanderer]

Presumably Fiona reached out to the Inquisition first before Alexius went back in time and manipulated her. While the templars who were under no duress didn't even reach out to the Inquisition.
 
The fact is, I and I presume Barquiel think it is hypocritical to condemn the rank and file of the rebel mages for the mistakes of their superiors and pardon the rank and file of the templars for the same thing. Fiona allied with the Venatori under duress, and a sin committed under duress is a sin on the one who ordered it, not the one whose hands carried out the deed. That would fall under Alexius.

 

If we are to pardon the templars, why would then it be consistent to condemn the rebel mages? I do not see their excuse of just being a "good soldier following orders" or being part of a military organization any less duress than what the persecution of the rebel mages faced who if the inquisition co-opts the templars, are manipulated and victimized, left with out allies, and thrown to the wolves.

 

Actually, we saw Barris try to do that in Val Royeaux, only to be silenced by Lucius. 

 

Fiona did not ally with the mages under duress, because no one forced her to do anything. She was perfectly capable of throwing caution to the wind and not accepting Alexius's offer. It was no more risky than what she did the first time breaking from the Chantry.

 

The templars get a pardon because the Red Templars, quite literally, cannot control themselves. Many didn't even know what the red lyrium meant, and once they were on it, they were controlled by Corypheus. The templars resisted this, and either the Inquisitor saves them or they fail. By contrast, the mages join willingly, even if they think they have no options, they actually do: They could do the same thing they did last time. 

[SgtSteel91]

To me, the way Fiona puts it, she and the Mages under her didn't have the manpower to defend themselves from the Templars and were in a lot more danger of being wiped out now than they did in Asunder. In the meeting in Redcliff it even sounds like Templars did attack them but were saved from being killed by Alexius arriving when he did. And Alexius' deal, even if it was indentured servitude, would allow them to live in a place that didn't fear them, especially after the Breach and with so many most likely quick to blame them. And Fereldan nobles like Arl Wulf seemed all too happy to move the deal along, with Mages having a better life in Tevinter and Fereldan being spared from anymore chaos caused by the Mage-Templar war spilling over into the Hinterlands.

[AresKeith]

To me, the way Fiona puts it, she and the Mages under her didn't have the manpower to defend themselves from the Templars and were in a lot more danger of being wiped out now than they did in Asunder. In the meeting in Redcliff it even sounds like Templars did attack them but were saved from being killed by Alexius arriving when he did. And Alexius' deal, even if it was indentured servitude, would allow them to live in a place that didn't fear them, especially after the Breach and with so many most likely quick to blame them.

 

The Templars wouldn't attack Redcliff without provoking a war with the Country

[raging_monkey]

The Templars wouldn't attack Redcliff without provoking a war with the Country

they are already at war... they were harbouring "fugitives"

[TheJediSaint]

The Templars wouldn't attack Redcliff without provoking a war with the Country

Countries and their silly aversion to having foreign actors fight on their turf.

[Master Warder Z_]

...making this a little more funny to me.

I'm really pretty certain you'd despise my ideas about circle reform, Z.

As long as both the circle and Templars as a institution exist we have common ground.

[AresKeith]

they are already at war... they were harbouring "fugitives"

 

Even still the Templars in the Hinterlands can't deal with entire Ferelden Army along with the mages 

[Master Warder Z_]

Even still the Templars in the Hinterlands can't deal with entire Ferelden Army along with the mages

Hell no.

They were what a few hundred at most renegades that refused withdrawal orders.

Not the pre conclave order that was kicking the rebellions teeth in.

[raging_monkey]

Even still the Templars in the Hinterlands can't deal with entire Ferelden Army along with the mages

probs idk the numbers of both groups but enough dmg was done to call a truce attempt

[SgtSteel91]

The Templars wouldn't attack Redcliff without provoking a war with the Country

 

When you ask Alexius when he took the Recliff Mages he says:

 

"When the Conclave was destroyed, these poor souls faced the brutality of the Templars, who rushed to attack them. It could only be through Divine providence that I arrived when I did."

 

Take that as you will, but to me it sounds like the Templars were going to attack the Mages at Redcliff and Alexius either scared them off or fought them off.

[Master Warder Z_]

Except the Order had already withdrew to the capital before Alexius even got there initially.

You only had those holdouts who refused the order.

So likely it was just some bs on the Magisters part.

[snackrat]

I much prefer templar quest, to be honest. I'm not even super pro-templar or anything - the mage/templar quests are independent of templars/mages.

 

For templars, you have two choices:

1 Help us while you rebuild your order free of corruption! OR

2 Ain't nobody got time fo dat, you're conscripts now, we gotta get s*** DONE

 

For mages, you have two choices:

1 Yes I most definitely approve of your rebellion, your treatment of those people, and your shady alliances! Welcome aboard! OR

2 Whoa whoa whoa prison for you guys, holy s***. We own you now.

 

I don't understand why they made the mage options so incredibly polarising compared to templars, but I suppose there is a lot more controversy around how mages should be treated than how templars should be treated - and your recruitment of the templars doesn't actually deal with mages at all as they've got their own stuff goin down.

 

Basically for the templars, both options seems like reasonable choices. For the mages, both options seem like short-sighted and/or stupid choices.

[SgtSteel91]

Or he lied with Venatori disguised as refugees that Alexius totally saved on the way saying that Templars were totally coming to kill them but Alexius scared them off.

 

Point being, Alexius entrapped Fiona by making her think Templars were going to kill her people at Redcliff and even got her allies to push her into agreeing to his deal with moles in the refugees and getting Fereldans like Arl Wulf to agree that Fiona should take the deal.

[AresKeith]

I much prefer templar quest, to be honest. I'm not even super pro-templar or anything - the mage/templar quests are independent of templars/mages.

 

For templars, you have two choices:

1 Help us while you rebuild your order free of corruption! OR

2 Ain't nobody got time fo dat, you're conscripts now, we gotta get s*** DONE

 

For mages, you have two choices:

1 Yes I most definitely approve of your rebellion, your treatment of those people, and your shady alliances! Welcome aboard! OR

2 Whoa whoa whoa prison for you guys, holy s***. We own you now.

 

I don't understand why they made the mage options so incredibly polarising compared to templars, but I suppose there is a lot more controversy around how mages should be treated than how templars should be treated - and your recruitment of the templars doesn't actually deal with mages at all as they've got their own stuff goin down.

 

Basically for the templars, both options seems like reasonable choices. For the mages, both options seem like short-sighted and/or stupid choices.

 

Yea, I didn't really like how conscripting the mages automatically went "You're our prisoners now" if anything that should've been a dialogue option after the choice

[SgtSteel91]

I much prefer templar quest, to be honest. I'm not even super pro-templar or anything - the mage/templar quests are independent of templars/mages.

 

For templars, you have two choices:

1 Help us while you rebuild your order free of corruption! OR

2 Ain't nobody got time fo dat, you're conscripts now, we gotta get s*** DONE

 

For mages, you have two choices:

1 Yes I most definitely approve of your rebellion, your treatment of those people, and your shady alliances! Welcome aboard! OR

2 Whoa whoa whoa prison for you guys, holy s***. We own you now.

 

I don't understand why they made the mage options so incredibly polarising compared to templars, but I suppose there is a lot more controversy around how mages should be treated than how templars should be treated - and your recruitment of the templars doesn't actually deal with mages at all as they've got their own stuff goin down.

 

Basically for the templars, both options seems like reasonable choices. For the mages, both options seem like short-sighted and/or stupid choices.

 

For the ally with Mages option, you can later clarify that it's more like probation for the Mages and even start training your own Templars (even in secret) to watch them and make sure nothing bad happens. So it's not like allying with them is 100% "I approve of your rebellion and your choice in allies."

[Riven326]

Does King Alistair make a cameo at any point in the game if you choose templars over mages?

[Master Warder Z_]

Does King Alistair make a cameo at any point in the game if you choose templars over mages?

Nope.

Kind of a let down.

I really wish that peace talk war table op had been a actual quest.

[Riven326]

Nope.

Kind of a let down.

I really wish that peace talk war table op had been a actual quest.

Wow, that is so ****** lame.

[Master Warder Z_]

Wow, that is so ****** lame.

He only had like a ten second cameo for the mage run anyway so it isn't a major loss.