752 réponses à ce sujet

[thesuperdarkone2]

It surprises me how many people think that Ser Barris is so awesome. He just seems like a regular templar grunt to me with no personality beyond 'we need to stop this evil demon/we made a big mistake' (which any templar in their right mind would say once they found out they had been duped by a demon). With Cullen in the Inquisition and Samson as the Red Templar leader, it's as though BioWare ran out of pre-existing templar NPCs to use in the mission. IMO, Knight-Commander Greagoir should have been in Barris' place as the uncorrupted templar that leads his fellows against the corruption in the order.

 

In regard to which side to pick from a non-metagaming perspective, I think from both a practical and moral perspective that the mages are definitely the wiser option.

 

At the end of the day, the templars are a military faction with some lyrium fuelled powers while the mages have greater magical abilities and scholars amongst them that may have a better knowledge of the mechanics of the Fade, making them the safer bet for closing the breach. Furthermore, going for the mages means that you deal directly with the Venatori threat rather than turn your back on it and although Alexius sets a trap, Dorian's support and Leliana's scouts made it a likely failure. Lastly, from a purely moral perspective, we need to look at the composition of these factions. The templars are trained warriors who have dedicated their lives to fighting evil magic and defeating it, whatever the cost (even death). The mages meanwhile consist predominantly of innocent people who didn't want a war, and many of them are children. IMO, sacrificing a military organisation whose members are willing to lay down their lives is better than sacrificing innocent people.

Don't forget how Dorian says that Alexius is using time magic to try and stop you, plus you have a hostile foreign power on your doorstep. Dealing with them seems more imminent. Don't forget Fiona kindly invites you to Redcliffe to discuss an alliance while Lucius essentially tells you to screw off. The mages will likely be indebted to you for saving them, and your advisors tell you that going to the Templars will abandon the mages while the Venatori are mobilizing for war. So you've got a hostile foreign power that is trying to use time magic to undue your victories and is mobilizing for war. That seems like a more pressing issue and a more likely chance of getting help than hoping that not all templars are complete douchebags like Lucius. 

[Steelcan]

Don't forget how Dorian says that Alexius is using time magic to try and stop you, plus you have a hostile foreign power on your doorstep. Dealing with them seems more imminent. Don't forget Fiona kindly invites you to Redcliffe to discuss an alliance while Lucius essentially tells you to screw off. The mages will likely be indebted to you for saving them, and your advisors tell you that going to the Templars will abandon the mages while the Venatori are mobilizing for war. So you've got a hostile foreign power that is trying to use time magic to undue your victories and is mobilizing for war. That seems like a more pressing issue and a more likely chance of getting help than hoping that not all templars are complete douchebags like Lucius. 

you continue to completely miss the point of the templar recruitment, you are going there to investigate why the templars are acting so strangely as mucha s you are going there to actually recruit them

[TK514]

And still no link to this "Mages are brainwashed" note.  The game has been out for months, and no one has even managed so much as a blurry phone pic of the screen, much less an actual screenshot.

[leaguer of one]

I don't look at it that way. i see it as taking down a tevitor cult quickly or building an army to take them down another time.

[leaguer of one]

And still no link to this "Mages are brainwashed" note.  The game has been out for months, and no one has even managed so much as a blurry phone pic of the screen, much less an actual screenshot.

Dorian tells you this.

[thesuperdarkone2]

And still no link to this "Mages are brainwashed" note.  The game has been out for months, and no one has even managed so much as a blurry phone pic of the screen, much less an actual screenshot.

People still haven't posted the mage hawke who sided with templars codex, or the mage qunari codex

[Barquiel]

Even if the mages weren't brainwashed (I think they were, but since I've never played the templar mission I don't know if there is solid evidence)...the templars willingly went on ethnic cleansing rampages for months and willingly took the red lyrium (just look at it, what could possible go wrong?). It wouldn't really change a thing for me.

[Urazz]

Cullen will point out that the Templars' magic suppression abilities are better-suited for aiding the IQ in closing the Breach.  I find this to be the more sensible approach of dealing with the situation than pouring in more magic.

Actually that's just his opinion.  Leliana supports the mages closing the breach and Cassandra seems to lean towards that way as well but really doesn't care as long as the Inquisition gets the help needed to close the breach.

 

And pouring more magic is a sensible option as well as it's extra magic used to power up the Inquisitor's mark instead of trying to suppress the breach to a level where the Inquisitor's mark can close it.  You can talk about how it was dangerous to pour more magic into the Inquisitor's mark but you could also argue that the templar's abilities may not have any effect on the breach.

[Vita Brevis]

you continue to completely miss the point of the templar recruitment, you are going there to investigate why the templars are acting so strangely as mucha s you are going there to actually recruit them

They're acting as always, lol. Since when is it strange - since they started hunting and killing mundane people and not just the mages? 

On a serious note, yes, this situation is worth investigating but it's not a pressing matter if you don't know what they're up to. 

[thesuperdarkone2]

They're acting as always, lol. Since when is it strange - since they started hunting and killing mundane people and not just the mages? 

On a serious note, yes, this situation is worth investigating but it's not a pressing matter if you don't know what they're up to. 

Don't forget how you aren't there to investigate why the Templars are there, merely to recruit them by essentially forcing them to accept you through the diplomats you've gathered. I also think a hostile foreign power that is mobilizing for war and is using a new type of magic to try and undue my victories seems more pressing than finding out why the templars are goofing off.

[MisterJB]

Even if the mages weren't brainwashed (I think they were, but since I've never played the templar mission I don't know if there is solid evidence)...the templars willingly went on ethnic cleansing rampages for months and willingly took the red lyrium (just look at it, what could possible go wrong?). It wouldn't really change a thing for me.

 

The high leadership of the Templars knowingly poisoned the rank and file with Red Lyrium who had no idea what they were taking until it was too late for many of them just as much as the leadership of the mages allied with Tevinter without consulting the rank and file.

And both groups had elements causing chaos in the Hinterlands with the addendum it was the mages who decided to hand over Redcliff to Tevinter.
 

[Boost32]

Why is it so difficult to accept that the mages are brainwashed? Are you seriously that desperate to find any excuse to hate on the mage side? If you think that, then the Templars who became red templars retained their minds and are perfectly willing to help a darkspawn MAGISTER take over thedas and kill innocent people to make more red lyrium. Assuming neither side is brainwashed, the Templars are way worse considering how they apparently have no problem enslaving innocent people and turning them into red lyrium.

You are the one who is not understanding, Im not saying they willingly sided with Corypheus, Im just saying there is no proof they are brainwashed.
They might be, they might be threatened to join the Venatori or die, the fact is, we can only speculate until a definite proof appears.

Dorian tells you this.

He dont, in the assault of Haven he tells us the Elder One didnt negotiate with the mages in Redcliff, and in a banter with Bull he says the rebels who didnt fled either joined the Venatori or were killed.

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

The high leadership of the Templars knowingly poisoned the rank and file with Red Lyrium who had no idea what they were taking until it was too late for many of them just as much as the leadership of the mages allied with Tevinter without consulting the rank and file.

And both groups had elements causing chaos in the Hinterlands with the addendum it was the mages who decided to hand over Redcliff to Tevinter.
 

 

The difference in the end for me lies in the fact that while Fiona might have made the decision to ally with Tevinter alone, the decision was still open knowledge for all once it was made. The mages openly followed Fiona into a deal with the devils from Tevinter.

 

Contrast with the rank and file templars where the corruption was brought on by a conspiracy created by a corrupt officer corps and an envy demon. The grunts were betrayed by their COs.

[thesuperdarkone2]

The high leadership of the Templars knowingly poisoned the rank and file with Red Lyrium who had no idea what they were taking until it was too late for many of them just as much as the leadership of the mages allied with Tevinter without consulting the rank and file.

And both groups had elements causing chaos in the Hinterlands with the addendum it was the mages who decided to hand over Redcliff to Tevinter.
 

Yet everyone focuses on Fiona but nobody ever focuses on what the Templars did. Hypocrisy at its finest as templar mistakes are ok but mage mistakes mean they deserve to die.

[AresKeith]

Yet everyone focuses on Fiona but nobody ever focuses on what the Templars did. Hypocrisy at its finest as templar mistakes are ok but mage mistakes mean they deserve to die.

 

Because we kill the ones responsible on the Templar side while Fiona gets off with no consequences for her actions  

[raging_monkey]

Because we kill the ones responsible on the Templar side while Fiona gets off with no consequences for her actions

totally justifiable imo lol conscrpition is punishment enough

[AresKeith]

totally justifiable imo lol conscrpition is punishment enough

 

It's not really a punishment just like how conscripting the Templars isn't really a punishment, there should have been options on how to deal with Fiona who indirectly/directly caused all that bs in Redcliffe 

[MisterJB]

The difference in the end for me lies in the fact that while Fiona might have made the decision to ally with Tevinter alone, the decision was still open knowledge for all once it was made. The mages openly followed Fiona into a deal with the devils from Tevinter.

 

Contrast with the rank and file templars where the corruption was brought on by a conspiracy created by a corrupt officer corps and an envy demon. The grunts were betrayed by their COs.

 

It helps that, when confronted with the corruption, the Templars fight to expunge it whereas the mages' attitude is more akin to "Yes, we just gave up the freedoms we claimed to be fighting for and yes we betrayed the one monarch willing to aid us by inviting a foreign power that promptly took over but what you gonna do?"

And afterwards, you only interact with Fiona who says "I would do it all over again."
 

[raging_monkey]

It's not really a punishment just like how conscripting the Templars isn't really a punishment, there should have been options on how to deal with Fiona who indirectly/directly caused all that bs in Redcliffe

i chuck it up to CIA logic too "useful" to punish haha

[AresKeith]

i chuck it up to CIA logic too "useful" to punish haha

 

Is she though, Vivienne may have been right about the dementia lol

[AresKeith]

It helps that, when confronted with the corruption, the Templars fight to expunge it whereas the mages' attitude is more akin to "Yes, we just gave up the freedoms we claimed to be fighting for and yes we betrayed the one monarch willing to aid us by inviting a foreign power that promptly took over but what you gonna do?"

And afterwards, you only interact with Fiona who says "I would do it all over again."
 

 

My reaction :

 

[raging_monkey]

Is she though, Vivienne may have been right about the dementia lol

viv acts like my mom... so i dont listen to her much lol. And imo yeah she's worth it

[Digger1967]

My dearest Mages and Templars,

 

In our recent correspondence it has been made clear that in these matters both groups have a very long list of grievances.  While I can certainly appreciate that such things are difficult sometimes to set aside, I would ask you both to step outside wherever you happen to be, and look up at the sky,

 

You will note a large glowing green hole into the world of demons, called the breech.  I would wish at this point to also call your attention to the fact that this breech was opened by a darkspawn magister with delusions of godhood, whose ultimate goal is to enslave or kill us all.  Sadly it seems he might just succeed if we are unable to get our collective crap together.

 

So I would encourage both factions to set aside there differences for now and join the forces of the Inquisition to deal with this threat to everyone's way of life.  As it so happens the Inquisition just recently acquired a good deal of lake front property in a unique location called the Fallow Mire.  All mages and templars will receive free passage to this scenic wonderland after we deal with the darkspawn and his pet archdemon, where you can go about killing each other to your hearts content.

 

Thank you for your kind attention to this matter.

 

Sincerely,

Inquisitor Adar

Herald of Andraste 

[leaguer of one]

viv acts like my mom... 

Someone else got that feeling? I thought it was just me.

[AresKeith]

viv acts like my mom... so i dont listen to her much lol. And imo yeah she's worth it

 

Nah, I'm fine with letting Vivienne lead the mages

 

Vivienne for Grand Enchanter 2015