752 réponses à ce sujet

[raging_monkey]

Someone else got that feeling? I thought it was just me.

hurts doesnt it...

Nah, I'm fine with letting Vivienne lead the mages
 
Vivienne for Grand Enchanter 2015

i dont trust apologists. I still support fiona for GE2015 lol

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

Nah, I'm fine with letting Vivienne lead the mages

 

Vivienne for Grand Enchanter 2015

 

If Fiona dies a traitor and Cassandra becomes divine. Vivienne becoming the leader of the mages seems a suitable reward for her loyal service and for being a bright example that all mages can aspire to.

[thesuperdarkone2]

Don't know what you guys are smoking but Leliana became Divine and the mages got their freedom and acceptance throughout Thedas. That's pretty much the best ending unless you want grimdark. Play warhammer 40k or DA2 if you want more grimdark.

[raging_monkey]

Don't know what you guys are smoking but Leliana became Divine and the mages got their freedom and acceptance throughout Thedas. That's pretty much the best ending unless you want grimdark. Play warhammer 40k or DA2 if you want more grimdark.

lels is great and ill put on all the time. But shes not the "best" atm none of them are the "best" to say so is fallacy

[thesuperdarkone2]

lels is great and ill put on all the time. But shes not the "best" atm none of them are the "best" to say so is fallacy

It should be telling that the devs seem focused on getting rid of as many negative aspects of her reign as possible. Mages get unprecedented acceptance if you side with the mages, Leliana doesn't break up with the warden, and she allows non-humans to become priests. If they wanted to balance her ending, the devs could have said that she breaks up with the Warden if she becomes divine. That way, people would have to choose between letting leliana and the warden be together and allowing Leliana's changes to exist, but no they decided that she stays with the Warden regardless, thereby eliminating one of the potential negative things about her reign. Seems to me like Leliana is the preferred divine.

[AresKeith]

It should be telling that the devs seem focused on getting rid of as many negative aspects of her reign as possible. Mages get unprecedented acceptance if you side with the mages, Leliana doesn't break up with the warden, and she allows non-humans to become priests. If they wanted to balance her ending, the devs could have said that she breaks up with the Warden if she becomes divine. That way, people would have to choose between letting leliana and the warden be together and allowing Leliana's changes to exist, but no they decided that she stays with the Warden regardless, thereby eliminating one of the potential negative things about her reign. Seems to me like Leliana is the preferred divine.

 

Not really since they made two versions based on if she's hardened or not

 

Like Monkey said to say so is fallacy 

[Boost32]

Nah, I'm fine with letting Vivienne lead the mages

Vivienne for Grand Enchanter 2015

Why stop at Grand Enchanter? Vivienne for Divine!

[raging_monkey]

It should be telling that the devs seem focused on getting rid of as many negative aspects of her reign as possible. Mages get unprecedented acceptance if you side with the mages, Leliana doesn't break up with the warden, and she allows non-humans to become priests. If they wanted to balance her ending, the devs could have said that she breaks up with the Warden if she becomes divine. That way, people would have to choose between letting leliana and the warden be together and allowing Leliana's changes to exist, but no they decided that she stays with the Warden regardless, thereby eliminating one of the potential negative things about her reign. Seems to me like Leliana is the preferred divine.

having the "least" drawbacks doesnt make her the "preffered choice" at best just very charismatic and at worst very lucky and there is still dlc and the aftermath to consider nothing is set in stone

[TravisTrevelyan]

The Templar Quest is loads better then the Mage recruitment one that's for sure. 
But after the events of Dragon Age II I can never bring myself to ally with the Templars fully.
Ser Barris is a great Templar, and the poster boy for what the Templar's should be. But it's in my hopes that the good Templar's will still come to the Inquisition in the end and aid in the fight. 
Would have been nice for a war table mission where you recruit the remnants of the facion you didn't choose. Maybe get an agent out of it or something. 

[Bethgael]

If you do the mage side, you are not left in the dark re: the Templars if you do the Krem/Chargers war table mission afterwards. they let you know what went on.

 

Same for the mages if you do the Templars.

Talk to Krem. A lot. After every story section, ask him what the Chargers would be good for.

 

As for Viv & Leliana

Spoiler

I've done Vivienne as Divine, as well as a hardened (or, rather, "unsoftened", since her default state is hardened for this game) Leliana. Blood. Blood everywhere....

[Bad King]

Regarding which quest is better (story wise), I prefer the mage side over the templar side for a few reasons:

 

1). Seeing an actual dystopian future in which the Inquisition was crushed, the world a demon-infested misery, your companions imprisoned and Leliana tortured and experimented on for a whole year was far more dark and disturbing than seeing a few demon fantasies which were all hypothetical as opposed to realities.

 

2). The mage quest gave me a better understanding of the Elder One's plans due to people you speak to bearing witness to them as well as journal entries by Alexius and the Venatori that you find during the quest. We learn the specifics of the earth shattering events that occurred: the assassination of Celene, the invasion of Orlais with a demon army, the devastation of Ferelden and Inquisition forces in their sieges of Redcliffe and the gradual collapse of the Venatori as they struggle against the rising demon population and the growing breach in the sky. I felt that the Templar quest was very vague in comparison: all you get are short lived and simplistic images of what the envy demon believes he has planned.

 

3). The mage quest had more interesting character development. We see Connor sacrificing himself to stop the demon attempting to possess him, we see Alexius descending into grief and madness as the world collapses around him in order to save his son from the taint, and most of all we see a darker version of Leliana who has become even more hardened after all of the physical and psychological torture inflicted upon her: her last stand is also very epic. In champions, the only memorable character moment for me was when the templars fought off the red templars to buy you time in the lead-up to the envy fight.

 

From an action-oriented perspective however, I can understand why many people prefer the level design of champions as opposed to the mage questline.

[Steelcan]

 

, and most of all we see a darker version of Leliana who has become even more hardened after all of the physical and psychological torture inflicted upon her: her last stand is also very epic. In champions, the only memorable character moment for me was when the templars fought off the red templars to buy you time in the lead-up to the envy fight.

nothing like 3edgy5me and whacking around knights in plate armor with a bow

[draken-heart]

for me, personally, the Mage-Templar mess comes slightly in the favor of the Templars, if only because time magic is a crappy excuse for anything, especially as to why Redcliff was pathetic and the mages had no clue we were coming.

[Maria13]

So you can still recruit Dorian if you choose the templars?

[Korva]

Yes. Cole and Dorian fill the same role during In Your Heart Shall Burn, depending on whether you recruited the mages or templars: showing at the gates up to warn you, helping Roderick in the Chantry and supporting him until he dies, then later telling you about his death at Skyhold.

 

And seriously, does this need to descend into another personal hatefest against templars and nonsensical speculations about the mentality of people who like the templar mission? It's like the world is going to end if people hold different views about a video game.

[dragonflight288]

I enjoy both quests.

 

For the mage quest, I enjoy it for these reasons.

 

1. The future, despite how kadywampus time magic is, made the reality of what we're fighting to prevent hit home far more than the templar one. Seeing Varric and Cassandra with red lyrium in their eyes and their voices breaking up, but still fighting alongside me hit me on an emotional level far more than Barris possibly dying in the templar one. Seeing the breach grow across the sky, the journal entries from the venatori telling me how bad the armies of Ferelden and the Inquisition were faring, their own forces being forced to deal with an overpopulation of demons and no ability to close the rifts. The torture Leliana went through, and how hardened she became as a result of it. 

 

It didn't feel like some dark future that would not happen when I went back to my own time. I actually felt like my friends in-game went through hell, and it was real to them. 

 

2. It occurred to me that the future was not the vision of Corypheus's success. It was the result of his failure in accomplishing what he wanted. Without the Inquisitor, there is nothing stopping him from reaching the Well of Sorrows and the eluvian nearby, but even that did nothing to help him. He needed the anchor, and the journal entries by Alexius shows us that the demands to go back to before the Breach were impossible to achieve because time magic itself was limited to the timeframe of the breach itself. Meaning once I sealed the breach, time magic itself would no longer be a viable option for anyone. 

 

3. You actually get to party up with Dorian. In the templar quest, Cole just sort of follows you around and helps, but he isn't in your party. 

 

4. Excellent character development. You see Connor commit suicide rather than be possessed again. You see how far your characters are willing to go to help the Inquisitor, from Leliana's amazing last stand to your companions nodding to each other knowing they were about to die when they went to hold off Corypheus and his forces. 

 

5. I adds a great deal of complexity if you're the type to roleplay your Inquisitor as going to the future can affect how you roleplay a character any number of ways. Adds a determination to succeed and would they become more ruthless to keep their friends from dying again? Do they grow to distrust magic itself?

 

Now, what I liked about the templar quest line. 

 

1. Ser Barris is simply awesome. 'Nuff said. 

 

2. Cole gets a far better introduction, and we get to know him as a spirit. When he first shows up in Haven in the mage playthrough, without reading the books you'd have no idea he was a spirit until he started reading Roderick's mind. 

 

3. I love the actions pacing and how it's broken up into separate sections. A bit of roleplay with the flags and dialogue, a mini-dungeon explorer leading up to the envy demon, seeing the possibility of what the Inquisition will turn into if we abuse our power or if the Envy Demon takes over, the timer for reaching the Knight-Lieutenants and getting back to Barris added a nice touch as well. 

 

4. The roleplay value, like the mage quest, can be really interesting if you think about how it may affect your Inquisitor's thought process. My Dwarven Inquisitor went there initially with the intention of allying with them, but when he saw how the entirety of the templar leadership was knowingly corrupting the lower ranks and purging those who ask questions, and his time in the Nightmare with the envy demon showing him the darker side of abusing power, he figured he would try and keep the templars on a short leash to keep them from abusing their power again and had them conscripted into the Inquisition. 

 

He was a bit of a jerk, but fun to play as. 

 

Both sides have their merits. I can't say for sure which I like better. 

[EmissaryofLies]

Conscript both. Break them and recreate them in your own image.

 

The Templars of Inquisition are stereotypical goons who fail even the most simple of tasks. The mages are children playing with guns. Neither can be left to their own devices. Neither can be trusted.

[Forsythia77]

I've played all three games multiple times as a mage sympathizer.  Maybe this will be the playthrough where I finally pick the templar quest. But maybe not.  I'm playing as a mage.  I did annul the circle once in DA:O and I just felt dirty doing so.

[Barquiel]

And afterwards, you only interact with Fiona who says "I would do it all over again."

She was talking about how the rebellion started, not her decison to invite Alexius. And of course she would do it again, the rebellion was necessary. I would have been disappointed if she had said something else.

[Vita Brevis]

It helps that, when confronted with the corruption, the Templars fight to expunge it whereas the mages' attitude is more akin to "Yes, we just gave up the freedoms we claimed to be fighting for and yes we betrayed the one monarch willing to aid us by inviting a foreign power that promptly took over but what you gonna do?"

And afterwards, you only interact with Fiona who says "I would do it all over again."

You're ignoring the fact they believed that the whole Thedas will turn on them because they're not that stupid and realized they'll get blamed for the Divine's death. And the facts that the venatory been around for some time, spurring their lies and pushing the right buttons. Also, they realized they won't be free but they thought since they're mages they'll be treated better in Tevinter and after some time they will gain citizens status. While without the allies Alistair's/Anora's support alone meant nothing and the fact that they invited them would not save them if the people would've turned on them indeed.

 

And I have to point out that Fiona says I would do it all over again she definitely didn't mean that she would gave up and accept Alexius' offer, it meant she would've start the rebellion again. Which is 1. not the same thing 2.completely understandable.

[dragonflight288]

I've played all three games multiple times as a mage sympathizer.  Maybe this will be the playthrough where I finally pick the templar quest. But maybe not.  I'm playing as a mage.  I did annul the circle once in DA:O and I just felt dirty doing so.

 

The templar quest doesn't feel like that at all. 

 

It's meant to track down the good templars, and you wipe out the corrupt leadership. Essentially if you ally with them, you're working on reforming them into the order they're meant to be, and if you conscript them you are keeping them from a position where they would abuse their power in the future. 

 

Essentially it comes down to how you want to roleplay your Inquisitor. My first Inquisitor brought in the mages because he wanted to oust Tevinter from Ferelden. He saw them as a threat. My dwarven Inquisitor was already distrustful of magic, being unable to use it himself, and went to the templars because he thought it'd make more sense to suppress the breach itself rather than pour a lot of power into the mark and hope it does the job. 

[Master Warder Z_]

OP already picked templars....

That is apparently unimportant.

[dragonflight288]

That is apparently unimportant.

 

Indeed.

 

Mages vs templar quests and debates never end. 

[Steelcan]

Indeed.

 

Mages vs templar quests and debates never end. 

#Han'Gereldidnothingwrong

 

brings back memories

[Master Warder Z_]

#Han'Gereldidnothingwrong

brings back memories

Bad ones maybe.