If it comes through on all the hype, Sword Coast Legends sounds like it'll be the ultimate D&D experience we've all been waiting for.
It won't be. It doesn't play like D&D at all. They removed the spellsystem from D&D and replaced it with cooldowns. It has the D&D logo on it, but its not D&D.
If it comes through on all the hype, Sword Coast Legends sounds like it'll be the ultimate D&D experience we've all been waiting for.
I hope so, i just dont want them to drop the ball, there is a lot of material in the D&D brand, and they've only scratched the surface, there are obviously more classes, races, and places to explore, and features they've not mentioned or probably aren't planning on using like crafting. So i hope it does super well, and it helps these guys become a bigger developer capable of designing a more detailed and sophisticated D&D title in the future (not that this one looks bad.) D&D deserves to be one if not the number one rpg game on consoles, or on table top.
It won't be. It doesn't play like D&D at all. They removed the spellsystem from D&D and replaced it with cooldowns. It has the D&D logo on it, but its not D&D.
Have you played it?
I'd like to see the official source log of the changes from the original D&D Next system. Since this game appears to be inspired from the Next, I'd like to see how much have they mantained, changed, altered or removed.
And the last bolded comment I think it's excessive, the game won't be out until the end of the year/beginning of the new year, they can still add or change a lot of things and we don't know the full chart of their choices.
Have you played it?
I'd like to see the official source log of the changes from the original D&D Next system. Since this game appears to be inspired from the Next, I'd like to see how much have they mantained, changed, altered or removed.
And the last bolded comment I think it's excessive, the game won't be out until the end of the year/beginning of the new year, they can still add or change a lot of things and we don't know the full chart of their choices.
Yes it is inspired by D&D Next, which basically plays like an MMO. The cooldown spellsystem is for this game only, though. They posted a reply about it on their facebook page months ago. They claimed WoTC had told them to do it. The game also have very few classes and races. The rest will be tossed in via DLC later. You also have to be online to play the game (even the single player campaign). And the game is set in The Forgotten Realms. About 400 years after the BG games. Still suffering from the 4th edition FR fiasco, it won't look like the FR from the BG games at all. This has all been confirmed officially, by the way.
They won't change the spellsystem before release. The cooldowns are there to stay.
Yes it is inspired by D&D Next, which basically plays like an MMO. The cooldown spellsystem is for this game only, though. They posted a reply about it on their facebook page months ago. They claimed WoTC had told them to do it. The game also have very few classes and races. The rest will be tossed in via DLC later. You also have to be online to play the game (even the single player campaign). And the game is set in The Forgotten Realms. About 400 years after the BG games. Still suffering from the 4th edition FR fiasco, it won't look like the FR from the BG games at all. This has all been confirmed officially, by the way.
They won't change the spellsystem before release. The cooldowns are there to stay.
Yes it is inspired by D&D Next, which basically plays like an MMO.
I think you're thinking of 4th Edition.
I've played both (heck I've played every edition since 2nd) and I can say 5E is not very MMO-like at all.
My bad. I meant The Forgotten Realms is all MMO now. They tried to make it all WoW during 4th edition.
My bad. I meant The Forgotten Realms is all MMO now. They tried to make it all WoW during 4th edition.
I think you're thinking of 4th Edition.
I've played both (heck I've played every edition since 2nd) and I can say 5E is not very MMO-like at all.
I've played every main D&D edition. D&D, AD&D 2nd, D&D 3rd, D&D 4th, D&D Next. 
I can say, after a massive storming about them, that the best are D&D, AD&D 2nd and Next.
The worst are 3rd and 4th.
While the Next is overall the best I've played, the 4th is the worst, and the irony is that the Next contains a little bit of good things from 4th, a little from 3rd, and a lot from the others. It's like they really haven't screwed this time. I know many people are crazy about Pathfinder... but the Next is on the "next level", worth of its title.
Do you mean from a lore perspective?
Yes.
There is a video out detailing the sort of thing the dungeon master will be doing.
I have to admit it didn't fill me with joy.
...<SNIP>
...Just commenting on the DM feature.
It filled me with question marks: ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
So now we know how. - But WHY?
It (the real-time DM feature) makes absolutely no sense to me. Anyone want this? I can only hope that somewhere in this creative process, they make the building blocks and resources for creating better games. But will there be a budget for them, once SCL flops horribly?
.....
And videogamey 'cooldown' skills/effects? That's the boring press-wait-repeat-drivel that plagues even Bioware games these days. What must we do to get rid of this garbage? I've never appreciated it.
First of all, only the mage should have *magic*. And before anyone tries to make an argument that "Vancian casting is also cooldown", - no it isn't!
Cooldown is essentially a damage-point generator, which is only generating more damage points when it's active. This creates a tactical incentive to fire off them as early and often as possible. To h*** with the tropes of console video games. I'm so b**** tired of them! Why isn't everybody else? One of the reasons I try RPGs (besides the emergent narrative) is to get away from them. And now every developer is trying to mold his PC RPG-game into the same-ol-same, usual, tiresome console-action video-game?
I'll probably buy SCL, but if the focus is on that we are supposed to play this for the combat crawl and treasure hunting... 
Do you mean from a lore perspective?
Yes.
I've played every main D&D edition. D&D, AD&D 2nd, D&D 3rd, D&D 4th, D&D Next.
I can say, after a massive storming about them, that the best are D&D, AD&D 2nd and Next.
The worst are 3rd and 4th.
While the Next is overall the best I've played, the 4th is the worst, and the irony is that the Next contains a little bit of good things from 4th, a little from 3rd, and a lot from the others. It's like they really haven't screwed this time. I know many people are crazy about Pathfinder... but the Next is on the "next level", worth of its title.
Next is kind of mediocre, really. It is way too easy. You reach level 2 at 250XP, was it?
It filled me with question marks: ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
So now we know how. - But WHY?
It (the real-time DM feature) makes absolutely no sense to me. Anyone want this? I can only hope that somewhere in this creative process, they make the building blocks and resources for creating better games. But will there be a budget for them, once SCL flops horribly?
.....
And videogamey 'cooldown' skills/effects? That's the boring press-wait-repeat-drivel that plagues even Bioware games these days. What must we do to get rid of this garbage? I've never appreciated it.
First of all, only the mage should have *magic*. And before anyone tries to make an argument that "Vancian casting is also cooldown", - no it isn't!
Cooldown is essentially a damage-point generator, which is only generating more damage points when it's active. This creates a tactical incentive to fire off them as early and often as possible. To h*** with the tropes of console video games. I'm so b**** tired of them! Why isn't everybody else? One of the reasons I try RPGs (besides the emergent narrative) is to get away from them. And now every developer is trying to mold his PC RPG-game into the same-ol-same, usual, tiresome console-action video-game?
I'll probably buy SCL, but if the focus is on that we are supposed to play this for the combat crawl and treasure hunting...
This rant is the mightiest rant I have seen on these boards in quite awhile. You have at least 16 charisma, Sir.
It filled me with question marks: ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
So now we know how. - But WHY?
It (the real-time DM feature) makes absolutely no sense to me. Anyone want this? I can only hope that somewhere in this creative process, they make the building blocks and resources for creating better games. But will there be a budget for them, once SCL flops horribly?
.....
And videogamey 'cooldown' skills/effects? That's the boring press-wait-repeat-drivel that plagues even Bioware games these days. What must we do to get rid of this garbage? I've never appreciated it.
First of all, only the mage should have *magic*. And before anyone tries to make an argument that "Vancian casting is also cooldown", - no it isn't!
Cooldown is essentially a damage-point generator, which is only generating more damage points when it's active. This creates a tactical incentive to fire off them as early and often as possible. To h*** with the tropes of console video games. I'm so b**** tired of them! Why isn't everybody else? One of the reasons I try RPGs (besides the emergent narrative) is to get away from them. And now every developer is trying to mold his PC RPG-game into the same-ol-same, usual, tiresome console-action video-game?
I'll probably buy SCL, but if the focus is on that we are supposed to play this for the combat crawl and treasure hunting...
It's actually one of the reasons why I was hesitant about the game when it was first announced.
I'll again note that they still haven't (unless this thread missed something) covered anything about the single player experience besides the fact that you have to be online in order to play it at all.
Being forced to be online to play a single player game is NEVER a good thing. It was one of the main ingredients in the recent Sim City fiasco.
Next is kind of mediocre, really. It is way too easy. You reach level 2 at 250XP, was it?
...this is the silliest argument I've ever heard.
Yes, you get to level 2 at 250 XP (as opposed to 3.X 1000). But guess what? The progression wave is much steeper.
Level 5 is 6500 (versus 3.X 10K), but then Level 10 is 64K (versus 3.X 45K), Level 15 is 165K (versus 3.X 105K) and capstone at Level 20 is 355K (versus 3.X 190K). It encourages quick early levels because every class has a Archetype feature you get to choose at Level 2 or 3 that really defines the game for you. Playing the first three levels is like playing on training wheels, so skipping them for most campaign is totally fine and usually thematically justified, unless your characters are brand new teenagers first encountering anything at all.
In addition, I haven't played a campaign (3.5, Pathfinder, 5E, etc.) that actually tallied and kept track of every kill, action and RP scene that could generate XP and then divided them out accordingly in YEARS. Usually the rule of thumb is "every two or three sessions for levels 1-5, every five or so sessions for levels 6-10, every 10 or so sessions for levels higher, etc.). If a DM wants, they can take five sessions to move to Level 2 with that 250 XP limit.
None of that makes 5E "easy." The action economy can be used by monsyers just as easily as it is by humans, making any encounter - just like any D&D product - a matter of how much a challenge the DM wants it to be. Given 5E's stated guideline of not allowing players to buy magic items and its barriers to crafting anything more than a healing potion, players are often at the mercy of their DM's to do anything outside of their class skills or the PHB standard equipment.
Truth is, 5E is more class and build balanced than any other D&D product (including Pathfinder), which not only encourages more interesting builds but also more interesting chafacter's in general. Given each race, class, archetype and background all have different abilities, features and Proficiencies that work together, you can have a different experience playing the same class ten different characters in a row, making it all about how you PLAY the character instead of how you BUILD them.
If it is THAT great, how come it is flopping hard? WoTC is a sinking ship.
The in-built DM function is one of the big draws for me. I have people on Steam who I'd love to play PnP and DM for with, but I've got no experience at that and some aren't familiar with PnP altogether. Not to mention timezone and scheduling considerations. Having all that loaded into the game is one hell of a convenience and could serve as a sort of gateway drug for PnP lol.
That said, I do wonder if developing those tools will mean a hit on the quality of the SP campaign. I'm not particularly impressed with what I've seen so far, it feels more of a dungeon crawler than a fleshed out CRPG experience, but I'll probably buy it regardless.
Funnily enough. The DM function seems to push me away. I don't want to limit my players with a handful of races and classes and then pay for even more later. I also like planning dungeons out in advance so I can focus on the players instead of what's next.
I'm not even sure if it will support a custom universe, will the DM be able to input their own Deities name? How will the non-dungeon aspect work? For me it just seems a lot of extra work on my part and a lot more added frustration.
Because it only takes one person to buy the sourcebook and then DM for twenty players? Because there is no real revenue generation in anything but pre-created scenarios and new rules books? Because nearly everyone I've encountered out there is hard at work converting every D&D campaign and sourcebook already in existence to match up to 5E? I'm playing a campaign right now that is a conversion of the Pathfinder Myth Drannor, meaning I'm getting highly polished and crafted campaign material for free while playing 5E and WOTC isn't seeing a dime for it.If it is THAT great, how come it is flopping hard? WoTC is a sinking ship.
The in-built DM function is one of the big draws for me. I have people on Steam who I'd love to play PnP and DM for with, but I've got no experience at that and some aren't familiar with PnP altogether. Not to mention timezone and scheduling considerations. Having all that loaded into the game is one hell of a convenience and could serve as a sort of gateway drug for PnP lol.
That said, I do wonder if developing those tools will mean a hit on the quality of the SP campaign. I'm not particularly impressed with what I've seen so far, it feels more of a dungeon crawler than a fleshed out CRPG experience, but I'll probably buy it regardless.
Full disclosure? I have read the 5E PHB, DMG and Monster's Manual and didn't pay a penny for any of them. That's bad for someone who likes 5E as much as I do. I pay money for D&D, though - I pay a small per-session fee to my DM and the company he works for (because he's probably the best DM I've ever worked with) and I pay an annual subscription to Roll20 for the extra services you get and because Roll20's a platform was the sole reason I am able to get back into tabletop games, making it more valuable than anything Wizards has offered.
I am disgustingly honest, that's why I bought all the three manuals. If people keep downloading (without paying) every product on sale, just because they can, it's obvious that the industry is going to fall. The downloaders are to blame heavily, not the industry which is "guilt" of not modernising its ways of selling. This goes for WotC and every other company.
Wizards is failing because any tabletop RPG company of its size will fail in this day and age. There's too much competition and the product is far too easily acquired without paying a dime. Paizo has been able to keep more steady because they have always been leaner than Wizards. And Wizards is still making money hand over fist compared to them.
I'm also not convinced - even if people would more faithfully purchase their books - that they can garner enough players to keep up value.
A load of writers left WoTC during the 4th ed fiasco. Right now you have several people at WOTC doing more than one job. They have lost the rights to the SW rpg, as well. The best writers jumped over to Paizo (due to creative differences). And WOTC have zero campaign setting books coming up for 5th edition (first time that has happened), and almost no novels are coming up, except for some Drizzt books.
Its sinking fast.
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