124 réponses à ce sujet

[MayCaesar]

since when does a nwn player need such a key?

 

NWN2 players do.

[WebShaman]

Could you clarify this?

Besides the over-the-top animations (which isn't gameplay per se) and the enemies jumping down on your head (which isn't some core gameplay thing and could easily be changed, would be like complaining about enemies spawning on top of you in NWN), I thought DA2 had a fairly good combat system.

 

*blinks*

 

You sure you want to stick by that comment?  We are talking about DA2 here, after all...basically the most cursed at version of DA that exists precisely due to the combat system changes.

 

The skill tree changes are horrid, to start.  The items being flagged to be for one particular character, yadda yadda yadda.  Oh, and being able to basically kite anything with the controller and kill it is atrocious, plain and simple.  More like an action based RPG (aka Witcher) than a real RPG.

 

I mean...you are baiting me, right?

 

Ah, I get it.

 

Heh.  Almost had me going there for a minute.  Nice try.

[MayCaesar]

Not this again...

[MagicalMaster]

I mean...you are baiting me, right?

No. I legitimately think DA2 was a better game overall than DA:O, and I'm hardly the only one.

That doesn't mean I think it was perfect -- far from it. But if I loved 60% of DA:O and hated 40% of it, I loved 70% of DA2 and hated 30% of it (and that doesn't mean I think 10% was "fixed" -- it means I disliked different things about each game).
 

The skill tree changes are horrid, to start.  The items being flagged to be for one particular character, yadda yadda yadda.  Oh, and being able to basically kite anything with the controller and kill it is atrocious, plain and simple.  More like an action based RPG (aka Witcher) than a real RPG.

Well, let's look at skill trees. Have you ever considered that DA2 skill trees are actually more similar to NWN feats than DA:O skill trees? Take Power Attack. You can "improve" it with Improved Power attack...or ignore the upgrade and pick up Cleave, Great Cleave, Overwhelming Critical, and Devastating Critical. Or go another route and pick up Divine Might and/or Divine Shield. Many characters might also simply stop at Power Attack and Cleave, forgoing Great Cleave entirely because it isn't that helpful for them (would need to land 2+ killing blows per round).

Imagine if we laid out the whole series of feats in a skill tree -- it'd look like this...

Divine Might/Divine Shield
∧
|

Power Attack -> Cleave -> Great Cleave -> Overwhelming Critical -> Devastating Critical
|
∨
Improved Power Attack

Looks awfully similar to DA2 trees, no? Start at one point with upgrade options available but multiple paths allowed and you can skip things on the way. If we did this DA:O style it'd look like...

Power Attack -> Great Cleave -> Improved Power Attack -> Devastating Critical

...and Divine Might/Divine Shield would be in another "section" entirely. What part(s) of the DA:O skill trees were better than DA2's skill trees to you (or, alternatively, what about DA2's trees did you dislike)?

Items flagged for one particular character...I'm not even sure what you're talking about here. Unless you're referencing the companions having their own armor innately and thus only the player character changes their base armor (but everyone changes things like jewelry and weapons)? While I personally liked it, I understand why others might dislike it...but that's not actually part of the innate gameplay/engine (at a minimum it would be simple to flag it to allow "full" armor slots on all characters -- Bioware actually had to deliberately REMOVE the option for the companions).

Not sure what you're referring to with the kiting comment -- I played on Nightmare and don't recall kiting anything beyond what you'd consider to be standard combat tactics. Could you elaborate (and is that an actual difference from DA:O or just a general issue you have with DA2)?

And I don't even know what the "yada yada" refers to in this case : / I already mentioned the over the top animations and enemies falling from the sky, so presumably not those...and "THE CAVE" is unrelated to gameplay...so would any issues you had with the plot itself...

[WebShaman]

Of course you are baiting.

 

Kiting one particular Boss in particular comes to mind (a Qunari).  One can beat him with any build, simply by kiting and striking when he "recovers" - it is hilariously stupid.

 

Again, the difference between DA:O and DA2 is miles apart in gameplay - especially regarding the skill trees, obviously borrowed super-powered "abilities" on those trees (like Bianca's "burst" attack that affects an area!!!!!), how the items are locked to specific characters, and so on.

 

As for "why is the locked [insert item here] a bad thing?" - because they often have an individual look, and for fans of character customization that limits (rather than promotes) possibilities.

 

Atrocious, really.

[Baaleos]

While I know this is not a DA thread- I do have to agree that the Mage combat in DA 2 was better than DA:O

I hated the whole 'Im a mage with a Staff, so I am gonna pretend my staff is a snooker cue and putt a cue ball at your head' animations.

 

You must remember the animation I am talking about - they basically looked like they were doing snooker animations with their staffs.

Was boring as hell.

 

When DA2 came out, mages suddenly looked bad-ass.

Spinning their staffs around and attacking in real time opposed to a D&D style 3 attacks per round.

[MagicalMaster]

Of course you are baiting.

Please don't do this, WebShaman. I have a lot of respect for you, especially for your whole Melee Mage concept (and including the Multiclassed Melee Mage variant). That doesn't mean our tastes always align or even that we won't strongly disagree on some things -- but I can assure you that I am not "baiting" you or "trolling" or anything.

For the record, I have 145 hours clocked in on DA:O on Steam. That was enough time to play through the main campaign once on Nightmare, then do each Origin (just the Origin) on Nightmare, then play Awakening once on NM, then play Golems once on NM, then play Witch Hunt on NM. I also tried a few fan mods. Recently I went back and fiddled around with some stuff to see how my memory was holding up and I even started a new Awakening playthrough (skipping over Origins) just to test the Archer builds. But I had zero desire to play through DA:O's original campaign after finishing it and I seriously considered just quitting many times -- especially during the Deep Roads.

In comparison, I have 168 hours clocked in on DA2 on Origin. I played through once. Then immediately started a second playthrough and finished that too. And then started a third playthrough but got distracted by other stuff halfway through the third (it was a Warrior playthrough -- did Mage -> Archer Rogue -> 2H warrior for playthroughs).

I didn't play it on release, though -- I played it three years after release so that may have improved some/many aspects if you played it near release. Not really sure.

Kiting one particular Boss in particular comes to mind (a Qunari).  One can beat him with any build, simply by kiting and striking when he "recovers" - it is hilariously stupid.

Ah. I agree that particular fight was a bit silly, but I wouldn't have considered that kiting the way most people tend to mean it. In NWN, for example, you can kite as an archer and shoot at melee enemies (no speed bonuses on other side) without them ever being able to attack due to how the round system works (in other words...dodge + wait for opening != freely attack the enemy while never letting them hit you). In the DA2 example you couldn't really stop to do anything or you'd get hit and you also had to at least dodge the charge attack. It also wasn't remotely possible to do that fight WITHOUT kiting -- no class (except MAYBE a super tanking 1H + Shield warrior) could stand up to him while trading blows.

That's not me trying to defend the fight -- it was stupid...but we've all known for years that Bioware sucks at boss battles.

If you could design the fight, what would you have done differently? Genuine question as I've put a lot of thought into boss battles (not sure if you've seen the two modules I've publicly released)...particularly curious about how you'd make it doable for all classes/specs without being able to do with any build (in other words, on NM a 2H warrior with all points in Magic wouldn't be able to win but a properly build 2H warrior could).

Again, the difference between DA:O and DA2 is miles apart in gameplay - especially regarding the skill trees, obviously borrowed super-powered "abilities" on those trees (like Bianca's "burst" attack that affects an area!!!!!), how the items are locked to specific characters, and so on.

As for "why is the locked [insert item here] a bad thing?" - because they often have an individual look, and for fans of character customization that limits (rather than promotes) possibilities.

What did you make of my idea that DA2 skill trees are closer to the way that NWN works than DA:O? And what about the skill trees do you actually dislike? They seemed super simplistic in DA:O to me -- especially the way you could get gamebreaking abilities super early on.

What Biana's burst attack? I used Varric constantly but don't recall that -- he was set to basically auto attack for damage, use Kickback to knock a single enemy back, and use the threat abilities (drop threat on a squishy or transfer to a tank).

As a matter of taste, I simply disagree with you on the item locking. I hated the atrocious way my characters often tended to look in DA:O with a hodge-podge of items...and often were the same items so everyone often more or less looked the same within each item type. I liked the way each character had a distinct look in DA2 that still got upgraded over time. Again, I don't think you're "wrong" per se as I think it's a matter of opinion and get where you're coming from, even if I disagree.

While I know this is not a DA thread- I do have to agree that the Mage combat in DA 2 was better than DA:O

Indeed. Combat in general was massively more active in DA2 -- even if the Mage spells weren't so ridiculous in some cases (which I actually preferred). There's a lot of mods for DA:O that literally just speed up the combat because a lot of people thought combat felt like wading through molasses.

[WebShaman]

Ok, if you were NOT baiting, I take that back.

 

I am a fan of DA.  Quite simple, really.

 

Of them all, I vastly prefer DA:I - but DA:O still has a fond place in my heart (the part in the Deep Roads is so ingrained into my memory, it is amazing!).  "On the first day..." oh man!  The horror...as you progress, it gets worse...and worse, as the true horror is revealed!

 

DA2 had a great story (The Hero of Kirkwall) and I really liked the plot(s), especially the Serial Killer stuff.  The DLC part was excellent (though it really reminded me of WoW, to be honest.  But it was really cool to see how one created the background for DA:I).

 

If it hadn't been for the skill trees, and especially the items limitations, I might rate DA2 higher.   Of course...there IS Isabella...

 

But she just isn't as good as my little Bard in DA:O (who I romanced)!

[Tarot Redhand]

Am I the only one finds the whole romance in video games thing creepy? Oh and I much preferred 2. In one the thrust of the game (to me at least) was to build a balanced party and then they throw that single combat at you...

 

I have tried to replay it on win 7 but I have a weird thing where I can play it once and the game won't load again after that.

 

TR

[MayCaesar]

Am I the only one finds the whole romance in video games thing creepy?

 

For me video game romances is one of the main selling points. I value character interaction above everything else, and romances are a pinnacle of that concept. One of the main reasons I've been hesitating to play Pillars of Eternity for a while now is that it doesn't have any romances for the main character. When I play story-heavy games, I immerse myself into the character I'm playing, and their romances feel as vivid as would my own.

 

The only type of romance that feels weird to me is when I'm playing a female character and romancing a male character. My self and my character's contradict each other then (I am as straight as a rose stem), and I feel very awkward. Luckily, most games nowadays provide an option of lesbian romances, so I often go for these. Or, if I know in advance that lesbian romances are unavailable or straight female romances will feel awkward in this particular game (which I can estimate by googling up romancing options for females in game), I will pick a male player character.

 

But otherwise, yes, I really like romances in games. They let me experience something I will never experience in the real life (I definitely am not going to romance a succubus or an elf mage in my life, no matter how much I want it ), they introduce a pleasant feeling of having someone close in otherwise harsh fantasy world with a lot of dangers and unfriendly characters. In my stories and modules in the future, romance will definitely play one of the central roles in the game.

[kamal_]

https://forums.sword...ion-conversion/

Apparently it will be a good game after the community rips everything out and starts from just the art assets or something...

[Daopsin]

Wow this released and I had completely forgotten all about it. Opinions seem mixed from what I'm reading because of the edition it uses, might watch a few videos of it on YouTube before deciding on whether to purchase it or not.
 
On the otherhand we have Divinity Original Sin 2 on its way. The first was pretty good too but Original Sin 2 seems to deliver an even better multiplayer experience (having a story more heavily focused on the multiplayer and not just single player this time).
 
I'm just happy we're seeing a new tenaissance of top-down RPG's.

[MagicalMaster]

Of them all, I vastly prefer DA:I

Add me on Origin (MagicalMaster) if you do the DA:I multiplayer at all -- been playing that a bit for the past few months.

"On the first day..." oh man!  The horror...as you progress, it gets worse...and worse, as the true horror is revealed!

The story was great. It was the 3287327238793248932789324792348032 groups of Darkspawn you had to fight to GET to the story which drove me nuts.
 
DA2 had a great story (The Hero of Kirkwall) and I really liked the plot(s), especially the Serial Killer stuff.  The DLC part was excellent (though it really reminded me of WoW, to be honest.  But it was really cool to see how one created the background for DA:I).

If it hadn't been for the skill trees

Aren't the skill trees in DA:I the same as the skill trees in DA2?

[MayCaesar]

Here is some interesting information on the upcoming patches/improvements:

 

http://www.gamebansh...vel-editor.html

 

If this schedule is to be trusted, tile based level editing and branching dialogue editor are going to appear in early December. Still no news on when we are going to be able to create custom companions specific to modules, but it's better than I expected. Perhaps this game still has a chance to grow into something great. 

[WebShaman]

Add me on Origin (MagicalMaster) if you do the DA:I multiplayer at all -- been playing that a bit for the past few months.

Aren't the skill trees in DA:I the same as the skill trees in DA2?

Sorry, but I am not playing DA:I in MP.

 

Just do not have the time to make such a commitment.

 

And to some extent, I do believe that the DA:I Skill Trees are much more similar to DA2 than DA:O.  But after the disappointment that DA2 had brought, I can live with it in DA:I.  I now have wide, open spaces to explore!  Well...I did, anyway. (Kinda did everything...hehe).

[MagicalMaster]

Just do not have the time to make such a commitment.

Eh, it's basically 15-30 minute dungeon runs -- don't need to commit hours at a time or anything, can literally sneak in a game during a <30 minute window.

If you ever change your mind feel free to add me.

[Bhaelrot]

A little update on the SCL game -

 

I've logged more hours than I care to admit and I have to give credit. N-Space has created a pretty decent game in the vein of NWN. Make no mistake, it comes nowhere close to NwN in terms of user created content or the editor. What you can do with Aurora runs circles around SCL and does not even get out of breath. Hell, just saying the word "aurora" makes the SCL editor pale and wilt. But, SCL's editor is way more accessible to the "common" player, and has some nifty modes of creation. For example; one can simply generate in about 5 -10 minutes a 3 - 5 hour dungeon crawl to DM or play with up to four friends. Actual "story" modules take longer to create but can be completed in a single day if you know what you are doing and are going to do. The main issue on this topic is the horrible lack of variety, especially with tile sets, creature sets and dialogue options. Woefully short but N-Space promises there are more to come.

 

Overall I would day that Sword Coast Legends is a worthy distraction from NwN. It really is a lot more like on-the-fly Saturday night table top PnP sessions than NwN, which is more geared towards committed and carefully planned and constructed long term game play. Lets face it, no one is "throwing together" a session of NwN on short notice. Most games/modules take and took weeks, months or years to prepare for anything even dreaming of prime time. With SCL you can accomplish essentially the same thing in mere hours or days. It will not be long before the modders start making their presence and talents felt, and then choices ought to start quickly expanding and improving.  

SCL has a long way to go, which should be a familiar memory to many of you who have been here since NwN originally released. Recall what THAT was like?

Wait, wut? It's not BG3? Huh? How the hell do you even USE this mess called Aurora? What am I, some kind of geeknerd programmer? Sheesh. this sucks.

Remember that? It is the same for SCL, only worse because today we have countless media within permanently attached digitalia with which we are (apparently) helplessly compelled to express a seemingly endless stream of discontent and lack of fulfillment felt about.... well, everything. It took NwN quite a awhile to "get up to speed" without having to contend with anything remotely comparable to that hot mess, and so it will for SCL as well, assuming it survives the bitter onslaught of personal discord and disappointment that accompanies anything sporting the D&D logo and/or attempting the lofty goal of competing with a legendary title such as Neverwinter Nights. I think it will survive, but it will probably be a less than benign journey.

 

SCL is not at this point, in my opinion, worth the full retail price of $40. Not yet, anyway, and I am not sure what N-SPace could do to make it worth $40. For me, anyway. Add a boatload of content and editor functionality and flexibility, perhaps. I paid the sale price and that was not too bad, assuming I am not nickeled and dimed to death for fresh and updated content.

 

At the end of the day I must report that I like the game. It has potential. It really does. No, it is not NwN, but then, it is my belief that there will never be another NwN. Bioware stole the show in that regard and it will be a long time before anything truly competes, mainly for financial reasons. Too much risk for too many fingers in that pie. Maybe SCL is a kind of test balloon for such a project though. One can dream...

 

That's it. My two cents for anyone interested in my opinion...
~  

[Tarot Redhand]

Well until/if they release it on disk (or it appears on GOG) I won't be trying it anytime soon. I just don't have the bandwidth to dl the bleep thing.

 

TR

[Gruftlord]

NWN in its years has lost its official website with the patches, it has lost its automatic patcher functionality, its matchmaking servers, its company run module respository. The strengthes of its locally hosted nature have let it pass the test of time.

Name three mediocre online only hosted games from 5 years ago still online today and tell me how much the devs added during that time.

I question whether SCL's servers are still running in 3 years, and whether the developers will be able to add much and gain a larger traction before having to pull the plug.

Edit: just checked their board to get a feel for the state of their community:
https://forums.sword...-three/?p=98441
That's actually quite sad

[UA DM]

The developers have put out a couple of community (free content patches).  Note however that the third community patch was pushed back so that the upcoming DLC could be completed.  No branching conversation editor or tile based lay outs at this point.

 

If your interested Merricksdad has been doing some great work on an Underdark tile set that has tile groups and transitions that really look good.  He played through Sword Coast Legends and has gotten some ideas from how they built their tile sets.  You can follow his work in the custom content forum.

 

UA DM

[JJ Likeaprayer]

Actually,it looks like "Divinity:Original Sin"...that was a nice game,nowhere near NWN tho...by the looks of it,the graphics are beautiful enough.

[Drewskie]

Well until/if they release it on disk (or it appears on GOG) I won't be trying it anytime soon. I just don't have the bandwidth to dl the bleep thing.

 

TR

Yea I miss the days of boxed games with a disk, manual, and mini-map of faerun which doubled as a dish cloth.  Oh well.

[kamal_]

The developer (n-Space) has closed down.

[ShadowM]

Sad to hear the news, hope all the workers can find work fast. They had their heart in the game, I wish they had more resources and time to reach their dream. I think if they had one more year before release to work on it that they would of had better outcome

[Redunzgofasta]

The developer (n-Space) has closed down.

Too bad indeed. I had great hopes for the game, switched back to rebuilding my world in NwN a few weeks ago though.

Should have done that earlier....