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What would you have thought about the game if the ending was perfectly satisfying?


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#51
Linkenski

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There are still some rocky parts, but ignoring what seems to be their intended ending that has no real connection to the series and creating one that actually fits? The game and the trilogy would be among the best in the industry. It's a testament to 1 and 2 that they still manage to stand out on their own. Too bad the great things in 3 are dragged down by an anchor that I hope is finally obvious to most in Bioware. We don't need the next ME spiraling out of control in the last 10 minutes...


I hope it is obvious to everyone in Bioware but the last time a writer talked about it, Mac and Weekes they both projected all issues to the fact that Shepard dies completely disregarding the problem with the Catalyst. But I guess it's because it's their job to defend the game so they avoid the actual criticism.
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#52
Reorte

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If I'd got an end that I enjoyed, or could even say "meh" to I'd like the game overall but it wouldn't be up there with the best, and still the weakest of the trilogy.

#53
Valmar

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I think this might be the issue I'm having with ME3; the lack of choice and freedom. To me, an RPG should give you plenty of options and decisions to make, it shouldn't be a linear path from A to Z with very little side avenues to take. That could be the reason I'm seeing it as 'gamey', it's not playing like a typical RPG, it doesn't play like the first two games where I could travel to Virmire or Noveria under my own decision, or recruit Thane, Samara or Tali in whatever order I wanted, it basically tells me I have to do this now, and now this, and now this. As I said before, it reminds me a lot of Call of Duty, it's just a bunch of shooter sections interspersed with movie clips. That's why I see it as 'gamey'.

 

For me it was that freedom to run around and do whatever I want, wildly ignoring the main story and only getting to it whenever I'm in the mood, thats exactly what made the games feel more "gamey" to me. The story wasn't consistent or prevalent. It was just there for when I decided I wanted to look at it. Heck the only thing that keeps me advancing the story of ME2 a lot of times is the fact that there are quests locked out on 'disc 2' (even though I'm on PC - damn you 360!).

 

In ME3 this isn't the case. The entire game is nothing but the central story. Which is why I see it as being the most story-driven game in the series. Which isn't necessarily a bad thing. Like I said, it does make sense in the narrative. The reapers are invading afterall. Still wasn't as much fun as the first two games where I can run off doing all kinds of things completely separate from the actual story.

 

It is the freedom you and I both like so much, in my eyes, that makes it a game "gamey". If the game doesn't give you all that freedom and keeps your focus on the central plot of the story... well, thats not gamey - its an interactive story.

 

We clearly have different definitions of what constitutes something as 'gamey'. For example I wouldnt call Skyrim a story-driven game. Its very much "gamey" in my eyes. Sure there is a lot of stories to be found in it but there is no real focus on any particular story. I'm just dropped in a  game world and let to go off making my own stories.  Games that stay focused on a central story and focus, like Uncharted, The Last of Us, Walking Dead, The Wolf Amongst Us (to name a few) are what I considered more "story" games that don't have that "gamey" vibe. Not that its a bad thing, of course. Just not what I'd call a very "gamey" game.

 

ME3 for me doesn't fall in the lines of being "gamey" like its predecessors because the entire focus of the game is on its story. It doesn't let you just run off on wild adventures on the other side of the galaxy that have nothing to do with anything. It keeps the play embedded in the story of the game with no escape in sight. The entire game is the story where as ME1-2 the story was just a few missions you could decide to ignore for as long as you wanted and still play the game. The stories were widely independent from the game as a whole.


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#54
General TSAR

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I would have never bought in to the Indoctrination Theory garbage.



#55
Guest_alleyd_*

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There were other aspects of ME3 s/p campaign that disappointed me more than the ending, but I can balance up things with how satisfied I was with M/P.



#56
Han Shot First

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That it was by far the best game in the trilogy. I thought that right up until the last 10 minutes or so.



#57
Pasquale1234

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For me it was that freedom to run around and do whatever I want, wildly ignoring the main story and only getting to it whenever I'm in the mood, thats exactly what made the games feel more "gamey" to me. The story wasn't consistent or prevalent. It was just there for when I decided I wanted to look at it. Heck the only thing that keeps me advancing the story of ME2 a lot of times is the fact that there are quests locked out on 'disc 2' (even though I'm on PC - damn you 360!).
 
In ME3 this isn't the case. The entire game is nothing but the central story. Which is why I see it as being the most story-driven game in the series. Which isn't necessarily a bad thing. Like I said, it does make sense in the narrative. The reapers are invading afterall. Still wasn't as much fun as the first two games where I can run off doing all kinds of things completely separate from the actual story.


I generally see that freedom as creating my own story via role-play. What would this Shepard do next? instead of the pacing enforced by the developers.
 

It is the freedom you and I both like so much, in my eyes, that makes it a game "gamey". If the game doesn't give you all that freedom and keeps your focus on the central plot of the story... well, thats not gamey - its an interactive story.
 
We clearly have different definitions of what constitutes something as 'gamey'. For example I wouldnt call Skyrim a story-driven game. Its very much "gamey" in my eyes. Sure there is a lot of stories to be found in it but there is no real focus on any particular story. I'm just dropped in a  game world and let to go off making my own stories.  Games that stay focused on a central story and focus, like Uncharted, The Last of Us, Walking Dead, The Wolf Amongst Us (to name a few) are what I considered more "story" games that don't have that "gamey" vibe. Not that its a bad thing, of course. Just not what I'd call a very "gamey" game.


I tend to think of it more like a simulated world, where players have the freedom to pursue their PC's priorities and interests. For a lot of the history of cRPGs, the setting and story have served as backdrops for role-play. That has changed immensely with more recent entries in the genre, as we are seeing more and more games that tell very specific stories in very specific ways.
 

ME3 for me doesn't fall in the lines of being "gamey" like its predecessors because the entire focus of the game is on its story. It doesn't let you just run off on wild adventures on the other side of the galaxy that have nothing to do with anything. It keeps the play embedded in the story of the game with no escape in sight. The entire game is the story where as ME1-2 the story was just a few missions you could decide to ignore for as long as you wanted and still play the game. The stories were widely independent from the game as a whole.


Yes, ME3 is very much an interactive story. The vast amounts of autodialogue combined with the enforced pacing made it much more of an interactive story than an RPG.

The first thing Shepard wanted to do aboard the Normandy was tour it to see what had changed, introduce herself to the crew, and let them know she was their new CO. Apparently, she didn't have time to do any of that before arriving on Mars, so it had to wait. The pacing throughout the game was so erratic, ranging from OMG urgency, the reapers are invading! to let's go eavesdropping around the Citadel and bounce around the galaxy retrieving stuff.

#58
WizzyWarlock

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I generally see that freedom as creating my own story via role-play. What would this Shepard do next? instead of the pacing enforced by the developers.

I tend to think of it more like a simulated world, where players have the freedom to pursue their PC's priorities and interests. For a lot of the history of cRPGs, the setting and story have served as backdrops for role-play. That has changed immensely with more recent entries in the genre, as we are seeing more and more games that tell very specific stories in very specific ways.
 
Yes, ME3 is very much an interactive story. The vast amounts of autodialogue combined with the enforced pacing made it much more of an interactive story than an RPG.

The first thing Shepard wanted to do aboard the Normandy was tour it to see what had changed, introduce herself to the crew, and let them know she was their new CO. Apparently, she didn't have time to do any of that before arriving on Mars, so it had to wait. The pacing throughout the game was so erratic, ranging from OMG urgency, the reapers are invading! to let's go eavesdropping around the Citadel and bounce around the galaxy retrieving stuff.

This exactly. This is the reason I consider ME3 more gamey, because it plays like a standard game, not like a freedom of choice RPG.
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#59
Valmar

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I still don't view RPG with that level of freedom of choice to be really 'story games'. Its like you said, you make your own story. The central story is not important. You're just put into this giant similuated world and allowed to roam and make up your own adventures. Which is great, don't get me wrong. I just consider that to be "gamey". A game that refuses to let you wonder off doing your own thing, making your own stories and create your own adventure.... those games, generally speaking and in the case of Mass Effect 3, are very story-driven titles to me.

 

If Mass Effect 3 gave us more freedom to escape the story and go do something else, make our own stories and adventures, such as ME1 and ME2, I would consider it more gamey rather than being a very heavily story-driven experience.

 

I use neither in a negative context, for the record. Story driven games and "gamey" games are both fine with me. I just wish ME3 wasn't so heavily focused on its central story and allowed us the degree of freedom found in ME1-ME2. That is why I say those two were more gamey and ME3 was more story.



#60
Reorte

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I'm not sure why you're labelling games with more freedom as "gamey". Perhaps it's just the wrong word, since it sounds like the options are "gamey" or "story-driven", which I don't think works very well. For me "gamey" in a game is anything that clearly only exists within the game universe because it is a game (end of level bosses almost always look like that to me).

#61
Valmar

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I'm not sure why you're labelling games with more freedom as "gamey". Perhaps it's just the wrong word, since it sounds like the options are "gamey" or "story-driven", which I don't think works very well. For me "gamey" in a game is anything that clearly only exists within the game universe because it is a game (end of level bosses almost always look like that to me).

 

I've elaborated in earlier posts why I give them these labels.

 

My experience with mmo's may shape my opinion in this regard. Running around ignoring the storyline and picking up random quests on random planets is more something you'd see in a video game. Its why I view things that let you play around doing whatever you want as being more "gamey" as opposed to "story-driven". As I said before, everything in ME3 is story-driven to some extent or another. Every quest, even the side quests, ultimately had something to do with the main story. You're never allowed to escape the story. In ME1-ME2 you can completely ignore the main story and just run around the galaxy doing various quests and assignments that don't tie back into the main plotline in anyway. Hence, ME3 is more story-driven than ME1-2.



#62
Pasquale1234

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^^ Any silly fetch quest ties into the story so long as it awards war assets.

#63
Reedirector

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It still feels like you are playing an ME game up to the beam run and then someone decided to smash an entirely different game onto the end. 

 

That is an incredibly insightful way of putting it. Thank you.


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#64
Daemul

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A common complaint with virtually all video games is that the side quests and fetch quests have absolutely nothing to do with the main story and that this breaks immersion. Bioware made sure this wasn't the case in ME3 with their War Assets system and I applaud them for it, more developers need to follow their example.

It's really weird how in so many games you will be told that the main quest is so vital and the future of the world depends on it, when you can faff about for hours by picking up flowers and catching bugs in jars, and suffer no consequence for it *cough* Skyrim *cough*.

You'd think in games which claim to be full of hard choices and consequeuces for your actions, there would be some form of punishment for messing around.
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#65
RVallant

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I already am satisfied with the ending, so my opinion of the game wouldn't have changed.


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#66
Iakus

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A common complaint with virtually all video games is that the side quests and fetch quests have absolutely nothing to do with the main story and that this breaks immersion. Bioware made sure this wasn't the case in ME3 with their War Assets system and I applaud them for it, more developers need to follow their example.
 

Well, I think the problem with the fetch quests in ME3 is that it requires Shepard to be a creepy eavesdropper in order to pick up these quests, then walk up and go "Excuse me, the MacGuffin you were bellyaching over is in Docking Bay E24"


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#67
Linkenski

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I always thought it was hypocritical of people to criticise RPGs for having unrelated side-content. It's a friggin game and Bioware's "fix" for side-content not fitting in with the main story makes their games crappy IMO in the cases of DA:I and ME3. I enjoyed none of the side-quests in ME3 not even those with dialogues; I thought they were terribly written (sorry Patrick) and awfully designed (those on the citadel) and I don't think I know anyone who praised the planet scanning in ME3 for anything other than being less indulgent than the planet scanning from ME2. IMO it was much worse as are the terribad fetch quests that take up 50% of Inquisition as opposed to the more creative and seperate story-focused side quests from ME1, ME2 and DA:O and DA2.


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#68
Daemul

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IMO it was much worse as are the terribad fetch quests that take up 50% of Inquisition as opposed to the more creative and seperate story-focused side quests from ME1, ME2 and DA:O and DA2.

 

lindsay-lohan-spits-ok6ui0.gif

 

Funniest thing I've read in a long time. 


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#69
wolfhowwl

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Those Chantry Boards in DA:O, pants hunting in DA2, and collectathons in ME1 sure were great!


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#70
Iakus

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Those Chantry Boards in DA:O, pants hunting in DA2, and collectathons in ME1 sure were great!

 

Too bad they were vital to getting the best ending though.

 

Oh, wait.   :mellow:


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#71
wolfhowwl

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I didn't do any of the fetch quests and I still was able to choose Control.

 

Maybe something was broken with your copy of the game?


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#72
Kabraxal

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I didn't do any of the fetch quests and I still was able to choose Control.

 

Maybe something was broken with your copy of the game?

Control is the worst ending... finally tried that the other day and I almost gagged at how terrible it was.  Even Synthesis with the nonsensical wave of green magic made more sense then it.



#73
sH0tgUn jUliA

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The Citadel DLC makes absolutely no sense taking place within the story the way it does IMO. It makes more sense as a post ending DLC. Shepard survived and the DLC takes place a few months after the main story. Remove all mention of how the reaper war is going from the DLC and voila! The perfect post ending DLC, and the perfect send off for Shepard.

 

But to do this they would have had to change the ending so that Shepard didn't upload into the AI in Control, but maybe a copy of his/her consciousness did. Shepard didn't jump into the beam but instead threw the corpse of The Illusive Man in the beam. Synthesis didn't make everyone covered with circuit boards and their eyes glow green. Destroy didn't kill EDI. Was Legion at the party? No. He wasn't. Therefore don't worry about the Geth!.

 

The ending? If you have The Citadel DLC loaded everyone gets the breath scene if you have over 2500 EMS. "The Best."

 

But no. We have to suffer with their craptastic ending.


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#74
GalacticWolf5

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Control is the worst ending... finally tried that the other day and I almost gagged at how terrible it was.  Even Synthesis with the nonsensical wave of green magic made more sense then it.

 

Care to elaborate on that?


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#75
Valmar

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Control is the worst ending... finally tried that the other day and I almost gagged at how terrible it was.  Even Synthesis with the nonsensical wave of green magic made more sense then it.

 

Someone who actually thinks control makes less sense than synthesis?

 

Wow. Samara's insight on humanity is proven right every day.