76 réponses à ce sujet

[Saphiron123]

Seriously, what kind of hero picks up garbage and then does a quest for it?

It's fine once in a while, but I bet 40% of the quests in the game are from scraps of paper laying on the ground. Somehow this gets you power, but this is the worst kind of fetch quest.

I mean delivering the ring was painful, my companions had zero to say, there was nothing interesting about it, but at least I told the woman about it after. Not so with the flowers on the grave in the hinterlands, I never even bothered to tell the guy, just "quest complete".

You guys can do AMAZING quests. You've done it before in origins and DA2, and in many parts of inquisition. I'd like to see more of that.

And please, no more quests for scraps of paper. Give us dialogue, give our companions an opinion, give us cut scenes and hard decisions. I say this because I know the awesome work you can do, and lal this fluff, it just isn't the standard you've set for yourselves.

Commander Shephard wasn't getting his objectives from discarded paper cups. The inquisitor shouldn't either.

[ruggly]

snip

Commander Shephard wasn't getting his objectives from discarded paper cups. The inquisitor shouldn't either.

 

While I agree, in ME3 you got quests from walking by and overhearing people speak. Just as silly imo.

[papercut_ninja]

...somebody could at least make the effort of picking these papers up and putting them on a board!

[Saphiron123]

While I agree, in ME3 you got quests from walking by and overhearing people speak. Just as silly imo.

Yeah but there was like 10 of those in the citadel, silly, but there has to be 50 or 60 of those in DAI.

I can deal with a few but... damn.

It amounts to walking across the map with zero dialogue. Hell, at least when shephard turned those quests in, someone had something to say. The note is quiet, all you get is +2 power. Whoopie.

[b10d1v]

Good call.  Although much has been done to make them easier to find and activate, it seems vendors, inns and the occasional NPC needing assistance are under used.

[b10d1v]

Totally agree with the lack of "quest aware" functions -your team should have some impact on what you are doing and often lead you to new quests or items as well as comment on the specific area.

[Rolenka]

...somebody could at least make the effort of picking these papers up and putting them on a board!

 

 

 

[Saphiron123]

 

 

Yup, but that's a small portion of the agme, and when I did my last one (that creepy dude that was released by summoning in the circle) both my companions had unique dialogue on the subject. That at least is a job posting board which sort of makes sense as there's a person paying for it and a chanter to compensate you.

In inquisition, the inquisitor bends over in the middle of the wilderness, picks up a piece of discarded paper, and then goes on a quest for that piece of paper, and never tells a soul.

You have to admit, the chantry board was 100x better.

[Nomen Mendax]

Actually there was exactly the same discussion in ME2 or ME3 (I forget which) where you got minor quests with the barest of set-up and feedback. The response to the complaints was that this allowed them to add content that wouldn't otherwise have been in the game (I'm paraphrasing obviously). So its often not a choice between quests on pieces of paper or better quests its a choice between quests on pieces of paper or no quests.

 

Incidentally if you go back to the guy who asks you to put flowers on his wife's grave he thanks you and gives you a small item. This seemed like a perfectly reasonable resolution to someone asking you to put flowers on his wife's grave.

[Saphiron123]

Actually there was exactly the same discussion in ME2 or ME3 (I forget which) where you got minor quests with the barest of set-up and feedback. The response to the complaints was that this allowed them to add content that wouldn't otherwise have been in the game (I'm paraphrasing obviously). So its often not a choice between quests on pieces of paper or better quests its a choice between quests on pieces of paper or no quests.

 

Incidentally if you go back to the guy who asks you to put flowers on his wife's grave he thanks you and gives you a small item. This seemed like a perfectly reasonable resolution to someone asking you to put flowers on his wife's grave.

Fair enough, I mistaken on that quest... wasn't on the other 60 that had no dialogue at all and gave me +2 power. Again though, a few are fine, in inquisition it's the vast majority.

[Fade-Touched-in-the-head]

Hmm. *gives it some thought*

I'm not sure getting these types of quests from some journal lying out in the open is any better or worse than getting them from an NPC or from some classified ad tacked to a board.

The problem, to my mind, is that most of this stuff is completely out of context.

As the Inquisitor, you have a war table where you decide upon and then green light various different operations. Basically, you tell someone to tell their people to go and get something done (which likely involves more people telling other people what to do down the chain of command).

And all these people are doing this stuff at your command and on your behalf partly because some of this stuff is beneath you and partly because you're meant to have more pressing matters to attend to.

Which apparently includes (among other things) retrieving an escaped water buffalo.

This is the problem with RPGs that elevates the main character to a person of high authority and/or importance. The side content just doesn't seem interested in paying attention to the plot.

The whole time I was luring that animal back to the farm, I was expecting one of my companions to say, "Are you #$*!ing serious? We're really doing this?

[Tarante11a]

First off, I'm loving the game.  Admittedly, I'm on my first playthrough so we'll see about 'the legs', but at the moment, I'm having a brilliant time.

But OMG I agree with the OP.  I know the game is just...bigger...than the previous two by some way, but I feel I engaged with the NPCs of Thedas far more in Origins.  I'm thinking particularly of the Dalish and Denerim - I remember the people and my conversations and the side quests had some emotional meaning to me.  Not getting quite that feeling from Inquisition.

BUT, I refer back to my first sentence.  Really enjoying myself.

[Nomen Mendax]

Fair enough, I mistaken on that quest... wasn't on the other 60 that had no dialogue at all and gave me +2 power. Again though, a few are fine, in inquisition it's the vast majority.

For whatever reason it doesn't both me that much but I do get your point. I also agree with Fade-Touched in that some of the quests seem like really odd things for the Inquisitor to be doing, but again that seems to be a thing with CRPGs in general. Not to derail your topic, but I'd like to see some more concrete rewards than Power (and I don't mean loot). I'd love it if once I'd got all of the camps set up in a region that I would get a constant supply of crafting materials from the region - enough so that I could stop farming the damn things. I can cope with the idea of my Inquisitor following up on an intriguing note while on her way to close a rift but I have a hard time imagining that she's going to stop to mine some iron ore - she really should have people to do that for her!

[Jeffry]

While there was a lot of these quests in DAO and DA2 and even ME, in DAI they just stand out more, since the game is filled with this kind of filler to the brink. In DAO there was at least a cutscene, a dialogue, some minor choice how to finish side quests (sometimes it was even reflected in the epilogue, which was a nice touch), etc. In DAI the majority of side quests ended in the middle of the empty lifeless location and all I would get is some XP and power. In all other BW games there was usually at least one line of dialogue upon completion of side quests.

 

Although in DA2 this was kinda weird, I found a dead body, delivered it to the dead person's friend and he would say one of those generic answers "thanks for finding this, I must have lost it". But I could get past this easier, since the game was made in a year and they had to find some shortcuts. DAI was 3 and a half years in the making, so this is at least for me unjustifiable here.

[Tarante11a]

Hmm. *gives it some thought*

I'm not sure getting these types of quests from some journal lying out in the open is any better or worse than getting them from an NPC or from some classified ad tacked to a board.

The problem, to my mind, is that most of this stuff is completely out of context.

As the Inquisitor, you have a war table where you decide upon and then green light various different operations. Basically, you tell someone to tell their people to go and get something done (which likely involves more people telling other people what to do down the chain of command).

And all these people are doing this stuff at your command and on your behalf partly because some of this stuff is beneath you and partly because you're meant to have more pressing matters to attend to.

Which apparently includes (among other things) retrieving an escaped water buffalo.

This is the problem with RPGs that elevates the main character to a person of high authority and/or importance. The side content just doesn't seem interested in paying attention to the plot.

The whole time I was luring that animal back to the farm, I was expecting one of my companions to say, "Are you #$*!ing serious? We're really doing this?

 
Agree with loads of what you say, although, isn't that just the problem with rpgs anyway? You're given quests, in order to run around and fight things, to give you xp.  Companion quests function as side quests, and then you have your main story.

The whole Origins-inserted-with-Skyrim is fairly obvious, yes? I don't mind that really but I think it's a matter of delivery? So, I understand you need to give players reason to run about and discover things (maybe find the occasional *bit of paper* etc) but it's all a bit random and meaningless.

To me, I'd much rather have a really good quest hub in each zone.  Meet some characterful NPCs, get a feel for the place, get into the lore and have a reason (apart from My Main Quest) to help people and get on with things.

{{SPOILERS}}

It was brilliantly done in Crestwood, don't you think?  You had a zone related mystery, it was all weird and once you'd sorted it out, the zone changed.  Love that stuff.

{{Spoiler end}}

I have a feeling that if you follow the 'correct' quest order, everything would pan out better.  For example, I over-levelled with companion quests so I've ended up with the Skyrim issue.  Now, I don't mind because I love Skyrim and I like running about with my chaps occasionally chatting to each other.  On the other hand, it might be a tighter, more driven experience narrative-wise if the zones were a bit more level specific and there were NPC heavy quest hubs (with things to explore too ofc?)

It seems to me that lots of games have suddenly taken notice of the 'exploration' thing? It's like they've looked at 20 years of player feedback, suddenly listened and technology now allows for 'big worlds', but they're still perfecting a balance/delivery system? Skyrim showed just how successful exploration games could be - except you're back to silent protagonist and really weird, socially challenged NPCs. *staresandspeaksinmonosyllabictonewhilstinvadingyourpersonalspace*

er...where was I?

*blinks*

^^

[ruggly]

Yeah but there was like 10 of those in the citadel, silly, but there has to be 50 or 60 of those in DAI.

I can deal with a few but... damn.

 

Sure, considering the Citadel is also extremely tiny compared to one map in DA:I.

[Jeffry]

It was brilliantly done in Crestwood, don't you think?  You had a zone related mystery, it was all weird and once you'd sorted it out, the zone changed.  Love that stuff.

I have a feeling that if you follow the 'correct' quest order, everything would pan out better.  For example, I over-levelled with companion quests so I've ended up with the Skyrim issue. 

Yeah, Crestwood was excellent and very well designed, another 2 that come to mind are Hissing Wastes and Emprise du Lion. Strong quest arc that guides you through the whole location and overshadows the filler. Too bad more locations weren't like these. The game should've gone without Fallow Mire, Forbidden Oasis and those damn Exalted Plains, so more resources could have been spent on the rest of them.

That is also another problem with DAI. You'll end up over leveling the game anyway if you want to finish it completely and see everything (or almost everything), the order doesn't matter. You need to skip the best perks or don't pick up codex entries and skip huge amount of content to not end up over leveled. And for that you either need to know how the game works by having already played it or by reading about it and thus spoiling yourself some of the fun.

[Nefla]

Actually there was exactly the same discussion in ME2 or ME3 (I forget which) where you got minor quests with the barest of set-up and feedback. The response to the complaints was that this allowed them to add content that wouldn't otherwise have been in the game (I'm paraphrasing obviously). So its often not a choice between quests on pieces of paper or better quests its a choice between quests on pieces of paper or no quests.

 

Incidentally if you go back to the guy who asks you to put flowers on his wife's grave he thanks you and gives you a small item. This seemed like a perfectly reasonable resolution to someone asking you to put flowers on his wife's grave.

So they spent the entire budget on making the maps big and pretty and ran out of money for quests (including the main plot which was very short) ? That's depressing but probably true.

[Jeffry]

So they spent the entire budget on making the maps big and pretty and ran out of money for quests (including the main plot which was very short) ? That's depressing but probably true.

I would very much believe that. Or they thought that exploration itself and large open locations are the things we want most out of their games. Both of them are equally depressing to me.

[Nefla]

I would very much believe that. Or they thought that exploration itself and large open locations are the things we want most out of their games. Both of them are equally depressing to me.

Yeah, I definitely got the impression that they assumed the reason so many people liked Skyrim was because of the big, open areas. That wasn't why I liked Skyrim and that's not something that satisfied me in DA:I. Quests, characters, story, roleplay, choices, customization, being good or evil, etc...that's what matters to me, not wandering around reading notes and killing bandits and bears.

[Jeffry]

Yeah, I definitely got the impression that they assumed the reason so many people liked Skyrim was because of the big, open areas. That wasn't why I liked Skyrim and that's not something that satisfied me in DA:I. Quests, characters, story, roleplay, choices, customization, being good or evil, etc...that's what matters to me, not wandering around reading notes and killing bandits and bears.

Yeah, it was probably the combination of Skyrim's huge success and the fact that DA2 received a lot of hate for smaller locations and smaller playground. But BW went simply too far and the final mix between exploration of open areas and main story doesn't feel right to me for a Dragon Age game (or for a BioWare game in general).

[Nomen Mendax]

So they spent the entire budget on making the maps big and pretty and ran out of money for quests (including the main plot which was very short) ? That's depressing but probably true.

Well, all of the areas I've seen so far (I'm in a strange process of getting 1/2 to 2/3 of the way through and then obsessively re-starting the game) have some interesting quests in them and some ... less ... interesting quests. I don't think its realistic to expect that all of the quests in a game this big are going to have an amazing narrative structure and be meaningful to the plot. Don't get me wrong, I'd love it if they were all were, but I think the more likely option is less areas and more interesting quests (and, of course, this may be something that you would prefer).

[Nefla]

Yeah, it was probably the combination of Skyrim's huge success and the fact that DA2 received a lot of hate for smaller locations and smaller playground. But BW went simply too far and the final mix between exploration of open areas and main story doesn't feel right to me for a Dragon Age game (or for a BioWare game in general).

True, and add to that the fact that none of those areas have main story quests in them aside from Crestwood where all you do is meet Loghain/Stroud/Alistar and talk to him for 2 minutes. All the main story quests are self contained in their own little areas that you can never access again after leaving. It ends up feeling like you're playing two separate games hastily glued to each other. Game 1: a BioWare RPG though shorter and with less of the features than previous games (self contained main plot areas) and a huge scavenger hunt game where you roam around doing endless random tasks (everything not part of the self contained main plot).

[Nefla]

Well, all of the areas I've seen so far (I'm in a strange process of getting 1/2 to 2/3 of the way through and then obsessively re-starting the game) have some interesting quests in them and some ... less ... interesting quests. I don't think its realistic to expect that all of the quests in a game this big are going to have an amazing narrative structure and be meaningful to the plot. Don't get me wrong, I'd love it if they were all were, but I think the more likely option is less areas and more interesting quests (and, of course, this may be something that you would prefer).

I would indeed prefer less areas with better quests. I never expected every quest to be deep and amazing, but I expected at least a few of them to be, however IMO none of them are.