76 réponses à ce sujet

[Saphiron123]

 
Agree with loads of what you say, although, isn't that just the problem with rpgs anyway? You're given quests, in order to run around and fight things, to give you xp.  Companion quests function as side quests, and then you have your main story.

The whole Origins-inserted-with-Skyrim is fairly obvious, yes? I don't mind that really but I think it's a matter of delivery? So, I understand you need to give players reason to run about and discover things (maybe find the occasional *bit of paper* etc) but it's all a bit random and meaningless.

To me, I'd much rather have a really good quest hub in each zone.  Meet some characterful NPCs, get a feel for the place, get into the lore and have a reason (apart from My Main Quest) to help people and get on with things.

{{SPOILERS}}

It was brilliantly done in Crestwood, don't you think?  You had a zone related mystery, it was all weird and once you'd sorted it out, the zone changed.  Love that stuff.

{{Spoiler end}}

I have a feeling that if you follow the 'correct' quest order, everything would pan out better.  For example, I over-levelled with companion quests so I've ended up with the Skyrim issue.  Now, I don't mind because I love Skyrim and I like running about with my chaps occasionally chatting to each other.  On the other hand, it might be a tighter, more driven experience narrative-wise if the zones were a bit more level specific and there were NPC heavy quest hubs (with things to explore too ofc?)

It seems to me that lots of games have suddenly taken notice of the 'exploration' thing? It's like they've looked at 20 years of player feedback, suddenly listened and technology now allows for 'big worlds', but they're still perfecting a balance/delivery system? Skyrim showed just how successful exploration games could be - except you're back to silent protagonist and really weird, socially challenged NPCs. *staresandspeaksinmonosyllabictonewhilstinvadingyourpersonalspace*

er...where was I?

*blinks*

^^

The thing is dragon age itself used to make fun of games that do this... talk to the blacksmith at Ostagar, he'll ask you if you've seen an elf girl with a suit of chainmail she's supposed to deliver, and if you offer to help, he laughs and says you no doubt have better stuff to do.

Sure there's the chanters board and stuff, but bioware was aware of how dumb quests like that were, and they made it obvious.

[uzivatel]

So they spent the entire budget on making the maps big and pretty and ran out of money for quests (including the main plot which was very short) ? That's depressing but probably true.

The amount of content they have would be fine in their previous game, but they had to fill those larger locations with something.

[Rawgrim]

They could have added to the quests, at least. You know that quest where you had to find letters on fallen soldiers, around the battlefield in (I forget the name of the place)? Could have had one of those soldiers be alive, and let him have information for another pressing quest. Or maybe have one of the soldiers gone mad, and you have to help him get his act together. Small adjustments like these would have made that quest a bit more interesting.

[Jeffry]

@Aribeth de Tylmarande

 

I for one am not ignoring what they accomplished with the main story. I am saying it is short and weak wihout a moment of urgency or threat and that the main character is awfully bland and not that interesting. Granted, it is still longer and more engaging than most contemporary games' main stories, but that is not saying much these days. It is short and weak by BioWare's standard and we all know they can do better, since they have done so in all of their past RPGs. But again, credit where credit's due, the cast of companions is one of BioWare's very best.

 

@Rawgrim

 

It was in the goddamn Exalted Plains. Imo one of the worst locations. The game would do better without it.

[Spectre Impersonator]

I woudln't go that far. The game had some spectacular cinematic moments and about 30-40 hours of solid narrative. Yeah, there was a lot of filler in there and a ton of fetch quests that I could have done without ... but to totally ignore what they accomplished with the main story is doing them a disservice.

 

Bioware could easily improve upon this forumla by just fleshing out the ending next time around, and replacing some of the random notes and errand boy missions with meaningful tasks.

 

I am also baffled why they ditched the cinematic camera for most of the dialogue. It is very difficult to empathize with the npc's and their plights when I can't even see their faces.

What exactly did they accomplish with the main story? For me, it was a lot of anti-climactic, poorly paced, build up to nothing.

[RVallant]

Not really - they only have so much time and resources. If every quest currently in DAI had more story and (as some people have suggested) its own starting and ending cut-scene it would have cost them a lot more. Cut-scenes are expensive, so the choice really is between fewer more involved quests or more note-on-the-ground quests. 

 

Quote me this when ME4 comes along and we'll see which direction Bioware goes in. 

[Rawgrim]

Quote me this when ME4 comes along and we'll see which direction Bioware goes in. 

 

ME4 will be heavily focused on multiplayer. More Battlefield than Rpg. Mark my words.

[KaiserShep]

Does no one remember Gaxkang? The quest that leads to finding him starts with finding notes on corpses, and a note left by a mad dwarf.

[Realmzmaster]

Does no one remember Gaxkang? The quest that leads to finding him starts with finding notes on corpses, and a note left by a mad dwarf.

 

There is also the quest on Dwarven culture called A Key to the City which is done by picking up scrolls.

 

Let's not forget Jammers's Stash, An Admirable Topsider, The Dead Caste, and the Drifter's Cache.

[KaiserShep]

Yeah, those too. I focused on Gaxkang because he's easily one of the most substantial enemies you'll face in Origins (if I recall, he is more powerful than the archdemon!), yet you have to pick up notes in various areas in order to find him.

[Sidney]

There a a lot of notes in DAO -- Chanters Board, Favors for Interested Parties, Mercs, Mages. Plus things in map like topsider's or asunder.

I broke down the hinterlands as an example and there are 15 dialog enabled quests on that map alone. There is simply put no region in DAO that has 15 dialog based quests. Yes there are also 15 or 20 non-dialog based quests in the same region but griping about more stuff makes no sense.

[CronoDragoon]

There are some really good letter quests in Inquisition, so I don't want them entirely gone. Frankly this is not interchangeable with dialogue-heavy quests. The abundance of letter quests is due to how cheap they are to implement. The ways to resolve the issue of too many letter quests are:

 

1. Drastically reduce the zone surface area.

2. Let big zones breathe with more open space that don't have objectives to collect.

 

I'd probably prefer #1 to be honest.

[Saphiron123]

There are some really good letter quests in Inquisition, so I don't want them entirely gone. Frankly this is not interchangeable with dialogue-heavy quests. The abundance of letter quests is due to how cheap they are to implement. The ways to resolve the issue of too many letter quests are:

 

1. Drastically reduce the zone surface area.

2. Let big zones breath with more open space that don't have objectives to collect.

 

I'd probably prefer #1 to be honest.

Yeah they made the hinterlands really big... but there was so little substance. I almost quit, and would have if a friend hadn't told me to leave it and keep playing.

And I love dragon age, so me almost quitting is like... huge.

[CronoDragoon]

Yeah they made the hinterlands really big... but there was so little substance. I almost quit, and would have if a friend hadn't told me to leave it and keep playing.

And I love dragon age, so me almost quitting is like... huge.

 

I don't mind the Hinterlands, but I am very good at self-diagnostics and pacing myself in terms of alternating story and exploration.

[Jeffry]

Yeah, those too. I focused on Gaxkang because he's easily one of the most substantial enemies you'll face in Origins (if I recall, he is more powerful than the archdemon!), yet you have to pick up notes in various areas in order to find him.

 

Well, you can one shot him with Mana Clash, you can't do that with Archdemon But without Mana Clash he is a formidable opponent. Although Archdemon felt epic with your soldiers, Eamon, Irving and Kardol running around, he was quite easy.

[Nomen Mendax]

Quote me this when ME4 comes along and we'll see which direction Bioware goes in. 

I'm not promoting quests with little story in them, just pointing out that if you want a game with as many quests as there are in DAI then most of them aren't going to be very fleshed out. Plenty of people in the topic have expressed the idea that they would be quite happy with a shorter game with more quests that are well developed and more involving. Me too.

[SofaJockey]

 

 

 

There are even boards available... 

 

[Rawgrim]

There a a lot of notes in DAO -- Chanters Board, Favors for Interested Parties, Mercs, Mages. Plus things in map like topsider's or asunder.

I broke down the hinterlands as an example and there are 15 dialog enabled quests on that map alone. There is simply put no region in DAO that has 15 dialog based quests. Yes there are also 15 or 20 non-dialog based quests in the same region but griping about more stuff makes no sense.

 

15 dialogue enabled quests in an area that is probably bigger than two thirds of the entire DA:O game.

[DarkKnightHolmes]

Majority of them seem to be in Hinterland anyway Somebody needs to stop cutting all those trees for paper!

[Iakus]

Imagine how much bigger the word budget would have had to be if those written quests had to be spoken?

[Rawgrim]

Imagine how much bigger the word budget would have had to be if those written quests had to be spoken?

 

Good point. Also a good argument against the voiced protagonist, I think.

[Spectre Impersonator]

Much like the mediocrity of Dragon Age Origins prevented me from purchasing DA2 on release, the embarrassing quality of Inquisition will prevent me from shelling out for the next game in the series, assuming they bother to make one.

[In Exile]

Good point. Also a good argument against the voiced protagonist, I think.

Not any more than it is an argument against any VO.

[Sidney]

15 dialogue enabled quests in an area that is probably bigger than two thirds of the entire DA:O game.

 

 

Really sort of a meaningless metric. The hinterlands for as "big" as it is is really not that big in terms of just walking from one side to the other doesn't take that long. I'd guess walking the deep roads for example, takes far longer than walking the hinterlands. The scale of these open worlds or semi-open worlds is nine kinds of stupid and why they are so jaw droppingly not immersive