You'll forgive me if I don't separate every little quote. You know now the quote limit in the messaging system and I rather not resort to multiple posts so I'll try to make this more condensed. I will do what I can to make my reply understandable within the context of the quotes, however. I will space the quote sections apart and my reply beneath them will also be sectioned apart. I hope this makes sense in the way I present it and you're able to understand the method I'm trying to use. It saves me from making a bunch of individual quotes and spares me from making multiple posts.
Also, I was halfway writing all this when my computer decided HURPADURP IMMA GONNA LOCK UP NOW A HURRRRR
So... thank you, Bioware forum. Thank you so, so, so, so much for having Auto Saving. I cried a little seeing that it was all saved.
Ahem. Onward into the fray.
With the beam off, there's no reason to stay, and since they probably didn't kill every Reaper unit on Earth, they had a good reason to run in order to avoid getting swarmed again.
Sorry, "argue" wasn't the right word.
Maybe "discuss" would have been better: they're talking about the failed mission, saying that maybe it didn't fail, since someone got in the beam; they keep contact with Anderson, and follow his progress, then lose contact while the shuttle is arriving on the Normandy.
Shepard was trying to kill the Reaper Destroyer, which probably draw a lot of attention.
In my opinion it isn't too unbelievable that a guerrilla expert might manage to take advantage of that distraction and try to approach the beam... so even if Anderson didn't reach the beam yet at that point, it should be possible that he was a lot closer to it than Shepard was.
TIM captures Anderson, and doesn't kill him right away because the Reapers wanted to indoctrinate the leader of the resistance on Earth.
Getting Anderson on their side would probably speed up their harvesting on Earth considerably.
It isn't the urgency of the situation that I question, just why they decide running would be the best course of action when its clear they still have troop transports with them. Instead of charging into a suspiciously empty pit (which looks more like a trap than anything else to me, honestly) why not ride a mako in there.
Why does Hackett have to want to pull out anyway? He's been the main head behind the crucible project since the start, at least in spearheading its construction and defense. He's placed all his bets in on it being the answer. Why would he call it quits so quickly because of one hiccup? Running now would risk the crucible he's spent the entire game building, defending and prioritizing. This seems out of character of him and frankly rather dumb. Which is consistent with the story since it does have a habit of making all the power-heads stupid. Still, rather not see Hackett get put through that.
So Shepard didn't regroup with Anderson like he does in the current ending? As it stands they took the charge to the beam together. Anderson went on without him?
That makes sense. Doesn't really explain why they lost communication though.
Good point.
Maybe he doesn't want to pull out, but just to consider a new strategy for that all-out assault, thinking Anderson to be lost?
Maybe Paragon Shepard doesn't want to give up on Anderson and tries to save him alone if s/he has to, not having better chances of victory?
I haven't played a lot of Renegade Shepard, but as I understand it s/he's quite reckless and instinctive, so a suicide run in the shuttle as a last chance to manually activate the Crucible wouldn't be too much out of character, would it?
Didn't think about this, but to me it looks like a nice idea!
If you got the Citadel's defences very high, Shepard faces few Reaper units, finds supplies in the form of Medi-gel, and maybe finds a (dying) survivor or two; if they were low, Shepard finds no survivors nor supplies whatsoever, and faces hordes of Reaper units.
Anyway, what I was thinking about when writing that is that with a high EMS, the Reapers are too busy with the attacking fleet to focus on a single shuttle, while with low EMS one or two Reapers might actually take the time to try to shoot down that harmless shuttle, maybe hitting it and causing it to crash on the Citadel.
There has been a fight going on for quite a bit now, and the Reapers' laser is far more powerful than the most advanced weaponry available to this cycle's races; considering that it cuts right through dreadnoughts, a stray shot or two marginally hitting the Citadel isn't too unbelievable.
In addition, the shuttle is very small: a very small hole is all that's needed for it to fly through.
Being such a bleeding-heart does seem to fit boyscout paragon Shepard. Doesn't mean I'm any happier with the reason though. Even paragon Shepard's aren't usually that emotional. You leave Grunt to die to save yourself. Even paragons tend to know that the mission comes first. Having Shepard abandon his squad to make a suicidal run doesn't sound like something I can get behind, no matter what morality your Shepard falls within. This also forces more of the "bonding" with Shepard and Anderson, something ME3 did enough of as it is, imo. I mean Shepard is dropping ship and doing a suicide run by himself just to save Anderson?
If I wouldn't like that level of forced caring for Anderson I can only imagine how certain forum members would take it, considering some actually want to punch him in the stomach. Lol.
As for what a renegade would do... I don't know. Even if he would decide to do it I don't see why he'd go alone.
It'd be nice to see those assets do something, thats for sure.
A single reaper blast shouldn't be sufficient enough to carve a hole through the citadel. Remember they can endure several DAYS worth of CONSISTENT bombardment before sustaining damage. That is based off council ship standards, not reapers, true. But even still I don't see how a single stray shot is going to be enough to damage something that durable. The size of the hole isn't really the issue.
They were following Anderson's contact, and s/he went to his last known position.
It may be a consequence of the EMS: if low and with low Citadel defence asset, Shepard has to survive getting shot down by a Reaper, a crash, then hordes of Reaper units... that's quite a lot of wearing down.
With high EMS and Citadel defence asset instead the shuttle isn't damaged severely, doesn't properly crash, Shepard doesn't have to face hordes, and can heal with the few Medi-gels that are still there... his/her final condition would be far better, wouldn't it?
Sorry, should have explained that one better.
They had the Crucible dock as soon as possible, on the "back" of the still sealed Citadel, and the Reapers do not fire on it.
After all it was designed over millions of years exactly for this situation; if Shepard found a Reaper IFF in ME2, why did none of the cycles, not even this one, integrate a copy of that into the design of the Crucible?
And why design it in such a way that it can be rendered useless by simply sealing the Citadel, thing that as far as I know each cycle was well aware that the Citadel could easily do at the first signs of danger?
Is this a different room than in the original ending then? Because before it looked to be like a fairly secret room with no other noticeable entrance other than the conduit. Even if Shepard had a tracking beacon to follow I don't know how he's going to find his way into that room. He doesn't have knowledge of that room or of the hidden passageways and keeper tunnels like Cerberus did.
He gets shot by a reaper which causes enough damage that he has to crash but he was still able to maneuver through a small hole in the Citadel?
Why would the reapers not fire upon the crucible? You made the catalyst afraid of them actually using it and has it lying to Shepard to persuade him not to. Shouldn't it then want to destroy the crucible? If Hackett has his fleets retreating then it'd be even easier. Why do they ignore it? Because it has a reaper IFF? If that is the case why bother even using the crucible, that IFF sounds like a far better weapon if it makes reapers completely oblivious to us.
I don't really follow you here. What do you mean about it being useless? I wasn't saying the crucible would be useless because the citadel is locked down, if thats what you mean.
I do not own the Leviathan DLC, but the Catalyst's argument in the extended cut as far as I know has plenty of flaws.
And if that isn't enough, it is trying to convince Shepard that jumping off a ledge or placing his/her hands on what look like high-voltage capacitors are both very good ideas, both worth doing.
Why would any sane being even consider believing it?
It reminded me a lot of Portal 2, where
I disagree. Leviathan and From Ashes provided the extra evidence and perspective we needed to confirm the catalyst's argument. Most of the people who are unhappy with it don't understand it, or don't want to understand it. Sadly enough.
I agree with the control and synthesis executions being silly. Though in the same vein so is destroy. Why should destroying a potentially important part of the citadel, located in a the crucible-citadel docking chamber, cause the the crucible to work? You shouldn't believe either of t he options. That tube could had just as easily been some very important part that you just destroyed so now the crucible will never work as intended.
If you're going to believe one might as well believe the other.
I loved the Portal series I should really replay it sometime...
Well, changing a good deal of the elements upon which IT is based would of course invalidate or at least change it.
As for the Control and Synthesis endings, in my opinion you should have at least had the chance to side with Saren and TIM: if you want Synthesis, why did you oppose Saren?
If you want Control, why did you oppose TIM?
To me this makes no sense, and wouldn't even if Synthesis had sense on its own or if the ways to achieve Control or Synthesis weren't essentially suicidal acts.
It was to illutrate the point that the Starchild is appealing to anything in order to make destroying that lock look bad; it likely knows Shepard (Harbringer took quite a bit of interest in him/her): if Paragon, it isn't much of a leap of faith to think that s/he has quite a lot of friends and allies s/he cares about, even without actually knowing who they are.
As for the Renegade, as I already wrote I don't really know him/her, but if the Starchild could estrapolate at least an indication of his/her psyche from his/her actions it should be able to appeal to something Shepard cares about.
[snip]
As for why the Crucible fires, the lock may be a safe lock that limits the input from the Crucible: not enough to block it, but enough to limit its influence.
Whoa now. Opposing Saren had nothing to do with synthesis. Infact his 'support' for synthesis was something he only vaguely mentioned at the end. Its completely separate from why he was our enemy.
Opposing TIM also had little to do with the concept of control. Granted, Paragon Shepard can voice displeasure about control, but that isn't why we oppose him He isn't the enemy just because he wants to control the reapers. Also, renegade Shepard isn't necessarily against control. He can even support it. He essentially tells him "if you can control the reapers why are you bothering with us, just go ahead and do it and end this war already!"
Their ideologies on control and synthesis not only had nothing to do with why they were the enemy but it also does nothing to hurt the ideologies. Just because bad people agreed with it doesn't mean its therefore inherently wrong. TIM also believed in the betterment of mankind - is that therefore wrong to strive for and to be considered siding with the enemy to believe? Again, just because a bad person agrees with a cause does not make the cause itself bad.
You call it starchild so I assume you keep the catalyst taking the appearance of a child? Unfortunate. At anyrate, why would it even know of Shepard's synthetic friends, assuming he has any? The only thing it would know about him is that he's partly synthetic.
Any argument to convince a renegade not to destroy you is going to have to be REALLY compelling. 
Why would it have such a lock in the first place? Did the reapers preemptively install it there in planning for this day? If they had that kind of foresight then why is it their only way of keeping Shepard to avoid destroying it (after telling him about it) is to try to convince him to kill himself? Did Shepard kill all the reaper troops on the citadel when he originally crashed in? Is there a reason he isn't being swarmed right now? The conversation with the Illusive Man lasted a few minutes in the least - surely they had time to catch up with him by now if the catalyst is so concerned about him messing with this device.
Because Shepard killed those who s/he found on the way there and triggered the Crucible fast enough; with the last lock still in place its influence can't properly sever the catalyst and spread to all of the Reapers and their forces, but it is enough to disrupt their signal locally and make it impossible for Reaper forces to reach that location.
Because the Citadel doesn't come with a USB port: you can't use a USB stick without a USB port.
Maybe the Crucible is an imitation of an actual Reaper: it has to fool the Citadel into allowing the connection to the Catalyst.
As for the hack.exe, in ME3 an Asari is able to read a fragment of Reaper code, and EDI and Legion both mention being able to work with Reaper code; it shouldn't be impossible to write a virus in Reaper code, especially if considering how long does the Harvesting of a cycle take and that a few dead Reapers are known to be left behind (for example, the one Shepard retrieves the IFF from), and they can be studied.
Sovereign needed to connect directly because it needed to start up the HUB and to open the relay, not just link to it.
I see. That's convenient. How is this explained to us in the game exactly? Sounds more like something someone would have to headcanon to explain.
So the crucible was a giant USB hub that connects to a pci lane? How does it fool the citadel into thinking its a reaper? Reapers are organic-synthetic constructs who's minds are made up of a billion organic minds merged together. How does the crucible manage to simulate something like that?
Writing a reaper virus isn't impossible, no. I'm just wondering how the crucible project managed to do such a thing without anyone knowing about it. The crucible project had no idea what the crucible was, they thought it was a weapon capable of destroying everything. It terrified Hackett. If it was really just a giant usb stick with a reaper virus on it then why didn't they catch on to that? I mean, they had to recode the virus. They didn't find the crucible half complete in a scrap yard somewhere. They only found the blueprints and had to put it together themselves. How didn't anyone building it realize they were writing a reaper virus?
As for someone during wartime studying reaper carcasses and making a virus... that's a bit of a stretch. Both because even dead reapers indoctrinate, so good luck studying it, and also due to the extreme complexity of the reaper minds. Even Legion with the reaper code said he couldn't comprehend the sheer magnitude of the reapers mind. Mentioned it gained a new understanding as to why others would perceive them as gods.
Though none of this really changes the whole "reapers aren't AI" detail.
Why does that have to be done with physical contact? It isn't like he has to actually fiddle knobs and turn dials. Shouldn't he still be able to do it with wireless connection? What is he doing that actually needs him to have physical contact that he couldn't already do wirelessly?
Because it cannot.
It knows that something is very wrong, that one of the open Reaper connections is fake, but can't actually say which one it is; disconnecting them at random wouldn't be a viable course of action, because the chance of shutting down the Crucible's connection is too low.
And shutting down the whole network would have had a similar effect as letting the virus act; yet this is assuming that the Starchild knew exactly what Shepard was actually trying to do.
As far as I know, husks completely lose their original selves, or at least the connection between their selves and their bodies.
If the latter is true, then the fate of the husks is quite horrible, being trapped in a body you can't move, regardless of a virus stopping the Reaper signal. 
Conventional weapons are known to be able to damage a Reaper, since Sovereign was killed this way; if the Reaper forces can't actually fire back, then destroying them is only a matter of firing long enough.
And ramming into enemy ships isn't a too strong of a strategy, especially if the enemy understands that that's what you're trying to do and orders your target to evade you while the rest keep firing at you.
Also, with impaired targeting their lasers are going to miss very often, probably hitting their own as much as the enemies.
How do you plan to convey all that to the player in game?
Husks retain their original selves trapped inside. It is horrible indeed. More horrible than I suspect many people give it credit for. Something to keep in mind if you ever play Leviathan DLC and find the living, mounted husk head prop that screams to be funny. Imagine the implications of your ending, piles of husks everyone assumes are dead. I doubt we walk around popping everyone of them in the head for good measure. Maybe they're all buried or burned. Mass Effect is a pretty dark game sometimes. Lol.
Also, incase you're curious where I get the information for husks being 'trapped', its the Mass Effect novel Retribution. In it is actually the first time we see Cerberus experimenting and studying husk/reaper technology. You might recall the game mentioning one "Paul Grayson" during the Sanctuary mission? He was the first experiment and the one the novel follows. We witness his body transforming into a reaper thrall and see his inner turmoil as he struggles vainly to retain control of his body but ultimately is left helpless to stop it. A prisoner in his own body.
Coincidentally the novels are also what first introduced Kahlee Sanders, the woman from Jack's side mission who sends the distress signal and even Kai Leng. Pretty cool that Bioware incorporated characters from the novel series into the game, imo.
Sovereign was a fringe case. His shields were brought down due to Shepard killing him while possessing Saren. Something that should had tied into the crucible's function, imo. At any rate, I don't argue that we can't destroy a reaper. Only that they're far more superior than we are. Like I said, a single capital ship can endure fire from four dreadnaughts before the shield even takes damage. That isn't "breaks" - just takes damage. They're incredibly powerful, as Hackett makes point to remind you with his constant "We can't beat them conventionally".
Reapers are very fast, faster than any of our ships. They're also capable of performing turns that would had ripped other ships in two, according to Joker. We actually DO see reaper ships casually landing on other ships and blasting them directly with their lasers. All we did was make their aim a little off. Even assuming they cannot readjust it like Robocop, they can still compensate by just getting closer and firing more lasers. One single hit is all it takes. A capital ship can wipe out a dreadnaught with just one blow.
Not to mention their armada has been building up for billion+ years. Their numbers will darken the skies of every world. If all we have done is make their aim a little off we still haven't won. Not by a longshot. Conventional victory is still not on the table.
It doesn't properly erase it: it shuts it down after using the open connections to spread to the connected Reapers.
That's of course assuming it works like the Geth network, where they share data and processing power and coordinate their actions.
Yes, the effect is pretty much the same... without space magic, though. 
It isn't. It was an idea to mod the game, and as such it needed to keep as much as possible intact from the original, so that actually making the mod was more probably doable.
What I didn't like of the extended cut is (among other things) that your last decision is the only one that actually matters, with the rest changing the outcome only marginally.
In my opinion, when you reach the end it's late for game-changing choices: you already made those, and now should be more a matter of seeing how those play out.
Doesn't making it work like a geth hub sorta go against the whole "we are each a nation, independent" line?
Is it really though? The current destroy ending could just have a mention of Hackett saying "it sent a virus" and then it'd be the same, just more potent than what you put forth. What actually clarifies that its a virus, anyway? I get thats what you want it to be but how does the player figure it out? To the player wouldn't it still just look like the reapers suddenly started aiming like they need glasses and the husks just fell over for no conceivable reason?
Again, the crucible was never made out to be a giant hack program. It was told to us to be a weapon of mass destruction.
I hate to sound like the ass breaking your dreams here but... what you're putting forth is not anymore doable, realistically. It's a very hard game to mod, like I said. Even getting texture mods in the game is a bit of a headache if you don't use an Origin bypass. I'm not saying this to discourage you from trying to mod it yourself, of course, only to help your expectations. I mentioned it earlier but I'll still bring up MEHEM. Have you tried that mod? It stands for Mass Effect Happy Ending Mod. It mods the game to have a different ending. You'd probably like it. Destroy is the only option, no catalyst and Shepard survives to reunite with the squad on the Normandy in the end
At least with the EC you have 6 endings. Control Paragon, Control Renegade, Synthesis, Low EMS Destroy, High EMS Destroy and Refuse. Hell, you can even be killed by The Illusive Man. The ending you put forth is the same with two variants of low and high EMS. I don't see how thats any different, other than being less. Beyond that, what "other choices" really matter in your ending? Your ending doesn't provide anymore significance on past choices than the current endings do.
On that we agree. Personal Note: I'm no more critical of your ending than I am the real ending. So please don't take any of it too personal.
See, this kind of response is laughable. I ask a simple question, and both you and Fedora Core over there both attack me personally rather than addressing the actual point I make. Why listen to someone who's unwilling to listen to you? I'd argue both of you have shown the same stubbornness time and time again.
Fedora Core? I'm Linux now? I guess I'll take that as a compliment, even if I genuinely prefer Windows.
You're missing my point. We have had this very discussion many times on the forum. You know. You were there. You were part of it. You asked a question of God while already knowing his stance on it. You know it because we've had this specific conversation in detail in the past. So what is the point? You don't really want him to answer you. You know what he has to say. You probably know both our stances. You just don't agree with them.
You disagree with what we say and remain adamant on it. No matter what we bring up, no matter how deep into this we go and how much time and logistics put into the debate you'll just go "no, the ending was absolute garbage and I want conventional victory." Also, can I just point out the irony of your victim defense?
We know your stance. You know ours. Why not just agree to disagree instead of wasting effort with further fuss about it? Why go to call out on someone who's stance you already know? What do you expect, exactly? A revelation? If you didn't agree the first time you're not likely to agree the tenth time.
Starbrat appeared out of nowhere in the last 10 minutes of the game. An entity we had no clue even existed for the entirety of the ME saga up until that point.
That isn't actually true from a lore perspective. The catalyst, or rather "The Intelligence" was made known to Shepard in the Leviathan DLC. So Shepard can know about it before the actual ending. He just don't know it is the catalyst until the end.
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