479 réponses à ce sujet

[Kallas_br123]

I will also point out, since Dorian was mentioned, that Dorian's father did not have a problem with his homosexuality in and of itself.

 

His problem was that Dorian refused to do his duty as the heir of a proud Tevinter family. If Dorian had agreed to marry as intended, and kept his homosexuality as a private conceit, there would have been no conflict. The issue insofar as Tevinter society goes is not with homosexuality in and of itself, but with their insistence on a public standard for any and all members of the upper class -- no one does blood magic, no one is anything other than their perfect ideal, and the polite fiction must always be maintained. Appearances are everything, even if every single person understands that the truth behind closed doors is completely different.

 

tl;dr: It's not about Tevinter "suddenly being homophobic when the rest of Thedas isn't", it's about Tevinter society's preoccupation with appearances.

 

Take that as you will.

 

and al this the reason why, although I like the Dorian, I do not give a damn for his personal quest, he's spitting on his father's face, possibly condemning his dynasty, because it is too narcissistic to fulfill his duty with family.

[Nefla]

The way I'd imagine it, although it may or may not be the way it turns out, is that Aqun-Athlok is not something directly from the Qun itself. The Qunari are very rigid in their belief in the Qun and following it. However, they are also very utilitarian, they would not wish to waste a person who was a good warrior just because the person is physically a woman. 

 

So, what do you do if the Qun says that women cannot be warriors but you have some women that are damned good at fighting? Well, you can't just re-define Warrior since that job is probably very specifically laid out in the Qun, a Warrior's duties and expected behaviors. However, I doubt that "Man" or "Male" would be so clearly defined in the text. They might lay out what a man should or shouldn't do, and what is expected of them, but they probably wouldn't say "A man is one that has a penis".

 

So, the book wouldn't leave room for you to make a "special woman's detachment" because the Qun says that women cannot be warriors. So loopholes like that would be specifically banned. However, if the Qun only defines what a Man can do an can't do but doesn't define what a man is, well there is your loophole. This would have the side effect of the Qun being better for transgendered people, but it wouldn't be because the Qun cares about your feelings, its because its better for society to have you working to your strength, but the Qun specifically bans your physical gender from doing that job.

 

It comes up a lot like this in U.S. court cases. there's what the law prohibits, and what it demands, and then there's a whole bunch of penumbras and loopholes around it. So, the answer that comes out will follow what the law said, but not necessarily interpreted how you'd expect.

It just seems so illogical and unnecessarily complex They already had a loophole with Tallis since she wasn't defined as a warrior, I'm sure they could find a loophole for other female fighters, even defining a women's detachment as a "support" team meant to bring supplies and dig trenches, care for the weapons and armor, etc...but in reality they'd probably be fighting too. I just don't understand. The "women can't be fighters" isn't because of some kind of moral or religious belief, it isn't because of anything logical such as "we only have a few women and they need to be protected so our race can continue" It doesn't seem to have a reason behind it which makes all the redefining and loopholes and re-categorizing of genders to just seem even weirder and more pointless.   

[Kallas_br123]

I'm going to go out on a limb and say that the problem here is one of your own manufacturing.

not trying to be rude, because after all, it is your world. But why the Qunari, putting so much importance on efficiency, put a woman (biologically speaking) into the Antaam? (I believe that this is the word) When a woman is physically inferior than other male soldiers with the same training, seem to me much more compatible with their vision (as presented to the players until DA2) that they would place the trans individual in another function than a soldier.

 

Sorry bad english

[darth_hel]

You need to remember that Women can't be Warriors is based on their religious belief. Its from the Qun which they follow to the letter. If the Qun says that Women can't be Warriors then they can't be Warriors. But...if the Qun doesn't say exactly what a Woman is...well, then thats where there's some flexibility.

 

Tallis isn't a Warrior, I doubt she'd be able even in her position to really fight in the army. If they want Warriors, then they can't be Women as defined by the Qun. If the Qun doesn't require Men to have a penis...well, then as far as there religion would go Men don't have to have one.

[darth_hel]

not trying to be rude, because after all, it is your world. But why the Qunari, putting so much importance on efficiency, put a woman (biologically speaking) into the Antaam? (I believe that this is the word) When a woman is physically inferior than other male soldiers with the same training, seem to me much more compatible with their vision (as presented to the players until DA2) that they would place the trans individual in another function than a soldier.

 

Sorry bad english

 

We don't know that Qunari have that biological difference do we? Also, remember that even if Women as a whole are weaker, those are always ranges. There will be outliers where a Woman could be stronger than most of the Men in the military. I doubt the Aqun-Athlok would be put into the military unless they were suited for it. There may well be Aqun-Athlok in other roles of both genders

[Kallas_br123]

We don't know that Qunari have that biological difference do we? Also, remember that even if Women as a whole are weaker, those are always ranges. There will be outliers where a Woman could be stronger than most of the Men in the military. I doubt the Aqun-Athlok would be put into the military unless they were suited for it. There may well be Aqun-Athlok in other roles of both genders

 

yes, I have no way to know about the physiology of kossith (but they appear to be mammals, so I imagine they similar to us), but the other races ...

yes there are exceptions, but not among those with the same training .

 

a woman and a man, human getting the same warrior training ...

 

there is a reason for all the serious sports modalities in our world are divided by sex. (and before some crazy say, is not sexism or misogyny)

[Neon Rising Winter]

Krem does look like a woman. He is biologically a female and has the body of one, even refusing to change his body to a male one if asked if he would. 

So if this was a thing in the old Qun, why would Sten question it and not think "Oh, this Warden is a Aqun-Athlok." and leave it at that?

Well if the warden weren't displaying whatever the Qunari cultural signifiers of masculinity are, then that's why he'd find it odd. Could be something as trivial as, 'But you can't be Aqun-Athlok, if you were you'd be wearing a silver ring on the little finger of your left hand!'. It's an assumption to think it's anything to do with the body at all.

[darth_hel]

 

yes, I have no way to know about the physiology of kossith (but they appear to be mammals, so I imagine they similar to us), but the other races ...

yes there are exceptions, but not among those with the same training .

 

a woman and a man, human getting the same warrior training ...

 

there is a reason for all the serious sports modalities in our world are divided by sex. (and before some crazy say, is not sexism or misogyny)

 

 

Even with the same training some will be more skilled than others, and some women will be exceptionally strong and good at it. Does this mean they could beat the best men, well due to biology maybe not, but they still might be good enough that they are an asset to the army.

[Bad King]

As an elf playing through the Winter Palace quest, I do feel that racial prejudice is just as rife in this game as in previous ones: people call you a savage due to your appearance and you lose court approval. There's also the matter of Gaspard claiming that elves don't belong in politics etc. In the epilogue, the only way for Orlais to maintain lasting peace while Briala forces through reforms is for the elven Inquisitior to control the nobility through fear (combined with some respect earned through being fashionably late to the ball!).

 

Most members of the Inquisition seem to be moderates when it comes with race relations which makes it easy to lose sight of the racism common in Thedas.

[Kallas_br123]

Even with the same training some will be more skilled than others, and some women will be exceptionally strong and good at it. Does this mean they could beat the best men, well due to biology maybe not, but they still might be good enough that they are an asset to the army.

will not discuss biological differences between the sexes because I am not a biologist, said this here this article in Washington Post explaining better.

 

http://apps.washingt...-in-sports/830/

 

on the efficiency of women on the battlefield, consider that I mentioned the efficiency of a individual in the Qunari society, I believe that army members are chosen among the best children physically, and then are trained to reach the peak of physical condition race .

 

but without a confirmation of the devs that is speculation.

 

sorry bad english

[Neon Rising Winter]

 

will not discuss biological differences between the sexes because I am not a biologist, said this here this article in Washington Post explaining better.

 

http://apps.washingt...-in-sports/830/

 

on the efficiency of women on the battlefield, consider that I mentioned the efficiency of a individual in the Qunari society, I believe that army members are chosen among the best children physically, and then are trained to reach the peak of physical condition race .

 

but without a confirmation of the devs that is speculation.

 

sorry bad english

 

 

Ah you see I had a different impression, not that they chose the best physically, but they chose the career most suited to the child. So your towering, strapping, energetic young lad who physically would appear perfect in the military can end up assessed to be a born librarian, and off he goes to a fulfilling life among the stacks where he will also be very good at removing volumes from high shelves. My impression of Qunari philosophy is not that it aims to create a society stuffed to the gills with people who would mostly much rather be doing something else.

[Nefla]

 

 

What if he was a black elf?...Please don't answer that.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

You changed your avatar into a sad black elf for this post, didn't you?

[Nefla]

You changed your avatar into a sad black elf for this post, didn't you?

Almost, I saw that post right after I had changed my avatar lol

 

It's my Lavellan who romanced Solas, so sad.

[papercut_ninja]

not trying to be rude, because after all, it is your world. But why the Qunari, putting so much importance on efficiency, put a woman (biologically speaking) into the Antaam? (I believe that this is the word) When a woman is physically inferior than other male soldiers with the same training, seem to me much more compatible with their vision (as presented to the players until DA2) that they would place the trans individual in another function than a soldier.

 

Sorry bad english

 

...except that in Dragon Age there is no difference in physical abilities between men and women...try making a character and check it out yourself...

[Texhnolyze101]

Is still a poor mans GTA tho, only with increasingly unfunny jokes & ridiculous storylines like becoming president & getting invaded by aliens. I actually like the SR series too, is fun if increasingly dumb

 

I'll take funny jokes and awsome storylines for a video game over a rather boring game like GTA 5 which takes its self way to seriously.

[Ieldra]

You need to remember that Women can't be Warriors is based on their religious belief. Its from the Qun which they follow to the letter. If the Qun says that Women can't be Warriors then they can't be Warriors. But...if the Qun doesn't say exactly what a Woman is...well, then thats where there's some flexibility.

That's actually a very good point. This may be a way to get around the restriction without violating the letter of the "law". It's not unheard of in religions as they have to adapt to changing times, while changing their holy books or whatever isn't possible because it's supposedly handed down from a higher authority. 

[Kallas_br123]

...except that in Dragon Age there is no difference in physical abilities between men and women...try making a character and check it out yourself...

the name of this is game mechanics.

 

unless a dev come and say that the humans of their world are not humans, and the humanoid mammals, are not biologically similar to us.

then yes,  there are physical differences between males and females.

[Kallas_br123]

Ah you see I had a different impression, not that they chose the best physically, but they chose the career most suited to the child. So your towering, strapping, energetic young lad who physically would appear perfect in the military can end up assessed to be a born librarian, and off he goes to a fulfilling life among the stacks where he will also be very good at removing volumes from high shelves. My impression of Qunari philosophy is not that it aims to create a society stuffed to the gills with people who would mostly much rather be doing something else.

in my opinion they choose for you the function that fits you best, and the one that best serve the qun.

 

I find it hard to believe that they would put a man in peak physical strength to be a librarian.

[XxPrincess(x)ThreatxX]

agreed
GTA V even made fun of it
 
Saints row is still fun to play but even comparing it with GTA is ridiculous
I liked SR2 a lot more than these crazy things that we got even SR3 was fairly "normal" compared to SR4 and that new Gat out of hell wtf happened

GTA's problem is they go too far trying to be realistic & it becomes boring, SR's problem is the opposite, they go way overboard with being wacky & it becomes stupid instead

[papercut_ninja]

 

the name of this is game mechanics.

 

unless a dev come and say that the humans of their world are not humans, and the humanoid mammals, are not biologically similar to us.

then yes,  there are physical differences between males and females.

 

 

...considering that people shoot fireballs, turn into spiders, teleport and use their blood to summon demons...yeah, I would say that they have stretched the limitations of human physiology somewhat...if you have a problem with men and women being physically equal, but not with any of that other stuff above as far as realism goes, then you are picking and choosing what you have a problem with based on how you want things to be...

 

This equality in physical ability is consistent through every companion, NPC and enemy you encounter, so I think the developers have made that abundandly clear without stating it outright.

[Steelcan]

*sigh* It's one thing to have magic and dragons, that's just a part of the setting and we roll with it. But to claim that on this principle, all real world physics and biology are now irrelevant is just simply not true. We can still expect gravity to be around, tides, physiological needs like food and sleep, and so on.

[Kallas_br123]

...considering that people shoot fireballs, turn into spiders, teleport and use their blood to summon demons...yeah, I would say that they have stretched the limitations of human physiology somewhat...if you have a problem with men and women being physically equal, but not with any of that other stuff above as far as realism goes, then you are picking and choosing what you have a problem with based on how you want things to be...

 

This equality in physical ability is consistent through every companion, NPC and enemy you encounter, so I think the developers have made that abundandly clear without stating it outright.

What steelcan said.