64 odpowiedzi w tym temacie

[Naeryna]

I've never understood how people can like it. It's like having a timer, which was OK in Sonic, but not so much in a dialogue-heavy RPG, IMO.

 

 

 

Exactly! So frustrating!

[Axe_Edge]

Spirit eater meter is kind of annoying, but if you only use Suppress and Eternal rest, your Craving  meter will go essentially to zero and it gets very manageable.
The ending also reminds of another old time classic: Planescape Torment.

What Snowdog said. Once the Spirit Meter is tamed it is a non issue. I'm in Act 3 and I almost don't think about it.

[Arkalezth]

That leads to what I said here:
 

It's also easier to manage for certain alignments, which is unfair, IMO.

In other words, your "solution" only applies to certain characters/plot decisions. Not to mention that you still need to play for a while before you get those abilities (assuming you get them at all).

Even then, manageable or not, I still find it an annoying and unnecessary mechanic. But as long as that mod works and anyone can use it, this discussion is rather pointless.

[Dann-J]

That's one thing I didn't like about spirit eating - the fact that if you used the special abilities that were provided to make it more manageable, your character inevitably ended up either lawful good or chaotic evil. It's extremely difficult to play as a neutral character in MotB. I certainly wouldn't want to try playing it as a druid.

[Raygereio]

That's one thing I didn't like about spirit eating - the fact that if you used the special abilities that were provided to make it more manageable, your character inevitably ended up either lawful good or chaotic evil.

That was patched out.
 
Normally I hate timer-mechanics in videogamers, but I thought the Spirit Eater was a rare example of a well done one. One of my pet peeves when it comes to videogame design is that the story is often confined to the cutscenes: You have a cutscene with story, then a gameplay bit where you fight mooks that has no story, then another cutscene with story, followed by another fighting-mooks section where there's no story going on, etc.
MotB's Spirit Eater mechanic drags the story that would otherwise have been contained to the cutscenes and dialogue into the rest of the gameplay. The timer can certainly feel punishing and like it's rushing you - especially on a high-craving character. But it's supposed to. One of the reasons it's there is to remind you that your character is cursed.
You can certainly argue over wether or not it was enjoyable. That's subjective. But what I don't think is up for debate is wether it was pointless or unnecesary. It's in the game for a reason and I think fulfiles it's purpose quite well.
 
To answer the OP though: For me the appeal of MotB is that it's the one of the - if not the - best written cRPGs I've played.

[Arkalezth]

But what I don't think is up for debate is wether it was pointless or unnecesary.

It does have a point, as you explained. That doesn't make it -necessary-, though.

Everyone knows and understands the reasons why it's there. Some of us just don't like the mechanic, or at least the way it was implemented. Rushing just doesn't mix well with this type of game, at least for me and many others.

[-Semper-]

well, i liked it. it reflected your curse and created the connection between plot and game mechanics. what i did not like was the fact that the meter still wore down while in conversations. one felt unnecessarily under pressure with all those long and good written dialogues.

 

in hindsight the devs don't like it any longer too. perhaps also because of the backlash of the fans. in pillars of eternity obsidian deliberately passed on a similar design decision, only to notice that now some players can't connect with the plot

[Tchos]

perhaps also because of the backlash of the fans. in pillars of eternity obsidian deliberately passed on a similar design decision, only to notice that now some players can't connect with the plot

 

That's no problem!  For me, the main plot is rarely the main appeal of these games, and is more of a vehicle for bringing me to new places with more enjoyable side quests.  MotB is an exception, though, where the main quest was enjoyable and memorable in its own right.

[unclejoe1917]

Okay, it took me five years to finally play this through because of the spirit meter.  I just cheated my way through it by setting it back to 100 every time I turned on the game and always suppressed, never fed.  I still don't love it, but by the time I finished the game, the spirit meter at least made sense.  That's really saying something given how much I hated the mechanic and what it did for my enjoyment of the game.  I'm really pleased that I finally played through it.  I ended up really liking the game.  The mood and story were a very pleasant change up from the OC.  Also, the pace was nice and brisk which was such a relief.  There was no endless slogging over endless distances of the same terrain killing orc after orc after orc after orc presumably in an effort to jack up advertised game play hours.  One other beef I had with the game is that the Red Wizards played a pretty prominent role in this game and it made no mention of the fact that my character was one.  I would think that it would have at least been mentioned in dialogue even if it didn't affect the game.  Also, my hunch is that a high Wisdom or Will would/should have some bearing in your struggle with the hunger.  I don't get the impression that that is the case.  Am I right on this?  Oh well, time for another play through.  This character is going to be a foolish, weak willed, spirit sucking son of a gun. 

[GCoyote]

Heh, to other Red Wizards, I guess you're just more competition. 

[Kaldor Silverwand]

My spirit eater idle patch, which is included in the MotB Makeover but also available as a separate download, prevents the spirit meter from going down while the main PC is standing still. So as a result it should not drop during conversations and meta gaming activities such as leveling and inventory management. What I disliked most about the meter is that it rushed everything when it shouldnt have.

Regards

[Ascendra]

I never had problems with spirit meter, I was playing a very good character that was fighting the curse, and only devoured spirits once or twice throughout the entire game. I think if you play the major events right (being good, not devouring, etc), they give you bonuses such that you can go longer without spirits. So I never felt it as a burden. Explored everything at my own leisure.

But of course if you are playing evil, then it becomes much more difficult. Still I thought it was one of the great appeals of MOTB, never considered it bad.

 

in hindsight the devs don't like it any longer too. perhaps also because of the backlash of the fans. in pillars of eternity obsidian deliberately passed on a similar design decision, only to notice that now some players can't connect with the plot 

 

Interesting. So thats why the game tells me my character should be going mad and she isnt. Wish they left it in place. I do prefer these design decisions even if it makes the game much more difficult.

[Dann-J]

 

But of course if you are playing evil, then it becomes much more difficult.

 

Really evil is as easy to play as really good. I usually play as an evil character, and consume just about anyone or anything I can. Once you learn to feed on living humanoids, and to feed on many targets at once, you've got plenty of food to support even the highest craving level.

[Thorsson64]

The point is that it made it a pain to play the way you want for many of us. That's an unforgivable deign decision IMO.

[Dann-J]

The point is that it made it a pain to play the way you want for many of us. That's an unforgivable design decision IMO.

 

Quite a bit of free will has been taken from the character due to their circumstances. The storyline makes it clear that your character isn't entirely who they used to be anymore. A bit of them is missing, and has been replaced by a bit of someone (or something) else. That justifies making the player have to compromise on their preferred behaviour. You either adapt to manage your curse, or you suffer the consequences.

 

In my opinion, the intimate way in which the curse entwines the PC into the story, and forces them to compromise because of it, makes for a great design decision. Many games that provide a wide range of class, alignment, and level-up choices tend to resort to making the storyline generic enough to suit any character or playing style. That usually results in a mediocre story that doesn't draw the player in.

 

Not that I don't like a good sandbox (in fact, it's my preferred playing style). However I can also enjoy a mostly linear story-driven game - provided the story in question is good enough (which I think MotB is).

 

Here's my take on the NWN2 campaigns:

• Original Campaign: a mediocre story and a mediocre sandbox.
• Mask of the Betrayer: a great story makes up for a lack of sandbox options.
• Storm of Zehir: a poor story, but a great sandbox.

[Arkalezth]

Everyone knows and understands the reasons why the Spirit Meter is there. Some of us just don't like the mechanic, or at least the way it was implemented.

This, once again. Not to mention that I'm sure that many other games that don't have a "whatever meter" could use one, but they don't, and they still work. So please, stop explaining the reasoning behind the existence of the meter, because that's not the issue here.

Kaldor's mod sounds about right. You still get the meter, but you shouldn't feel as rushed in cutscenes/dialogues, when shopping, etc. It's a simple change and you'd likely see a lot less complaints if it had been like that by default.

[Raygereio]

So please, stop explaining the reasoning behind the existence of the meter, because that's not the issue here.

The OP asked if MotB was any good. 
Just as some people hated MotB because of the Spirit Meter, it added to the game for others. Meaning people are allowed to talk about why and how they think the Spirit Meter works and adds to the game, just as much as they're allowed to talk about how much it sucks.
 

Kaldor's mod sounds about right. You still get the meter, but you shouldn't feel as rushed in cutscenes/dialogues, when shopping, etc. It's a simple change and you'd likely see a lot less complaints if it had been like that by default.

I do agree that something like Silverwand's idle-patch should have been implemented (I sometimes suspect the devs figured on people making more use of the pause button), but I honestly doubt there would have been significantly less complaining.
Even if you pause the thing during activities like inventory management, the meter will still put pressure on the player during combat & exploratio and the core problem is some people not enjoying having that pressure from a timer placed on them.

And really, it's perfectly fine to not like that. I don't like timers in videogames myself. The only reason I personally don't find it a huge problem in MotB is because the feel the timer invokes works well with the story.

[Arkalezth]

Just as some people hated MotB because of the Spirit Meter, it added to the game for others. Meaning people are allowed to talk about why and how they think the Spirit Meter works and adds to the game, just as much as they're allowed to talk about how much it sucks.

And I never said otherwise. I'm just saying that, if some of us don't like it, it's not because we fail to understand the plot.

Anyway, the OP should be either informed or scared enough by now.

[Endurium]

MotB is my favorite NWN2 campaign!

 

I enjoy the OC for the most part (especially the trial), but a few differences between the two campaigns are why I prefer MotB:

 

- OC forced characters of varying alignments/dispositions into my group; MotB always lets me travel with a group of my choice.

- OC companions have ultra thin skins due to a heavy-handed influence system; MotB's influence system feels much more natural.

- After experiencing Elanee, Safiya is a breath of fresh air.

- I prefer MotB's crafting system.

- Epic campaign in terms of levels, feats, and content.

- Shadow realm and other interesting places, with lots of atmosphere. Especially enjoyable when wearing a headset.

- I love a certain puzzle...

Spoiler

...having to do with a beam of magic and mirrors.

 

I gave the Spirit Meter an honest chance despite my hatred of timed content in games. I found it worked as intended and was manageable. However, it detracted from my enjoyment of the campaign, and my focus on getting through the story. It also felt contradictory in that the whole point of the game is to defeat the curse before my character succumbs to it (an implied time limit like in Baldur's Gate 2) yet the spirit meter delayed my progress by forcing me to harvest souls at regular intervals. After that I have always played without the spirit meter, and I don't miss it; the story, scenes, conversations, characters and feats all serve as constant reminders of my character's curse.

[Lastopier]

I am in two minds about MotB. Characters are great, story is exceptionally good, even the spirit bat is kind of OK, but how are some things annoying! I'll start with the spirit bar - as I said, the bar itself is fine, but why make Satiate ability usable only from fourth level on? Imagine this: no devour abilities available anymore, you are just above level 3. You can't fill the bar, you can't use satiate, you can't rest because the curse will kill you. Enjoy!
Level design is sometimes questionable. and by this I mean Skien. Who doesn't love dark dungeons where you can't see **** and you have to backtrack all the time while on clock?

[MayCaesar]

MotB has by far the best story among all games I've ever played. Not only the story, but its delivery: incredible music (Mulsantir and Mulsantir's Gate tracks are some of my favorite among all video game tracks), unusual characters, each with a tragic story and deep emotional issues, travel between the planes, stunning ending with many possible outcomes, most of which aren't "happy ends" at all. The only thing I was sad about was how short it was: I made a completionist playthrough, and even so I was done in 30 hours or so. But, then, all good things end soon, as the saying goes.

 

I didn't really dislike Spirit Eating mechanics. It was quite silly and needless, but it was quite easy to manage with summons. Although I would recommend everyone to use a mod removing Spirit Eating; I think it would only benefit the experience.

 

Oh, and the thing I disliked about MotB was how stupid SoZ story after it looks. I played SoZ right after the completion of MotB run, expecting similar level of awesomeness... Don't get me wrong, I liked building my party and leveling it, exploring the world, trading... But the story was so bland, I had a temptation to just stop in the middle of my playthrough and start another MotB run.

[bokhi]

MotB, in my humble opinion, has the best story out of the entire NWN franchise (including NWN 1) as well as the most thematic coherence. It's a lean story without any clutter and it's exactly what the OC could have been if it had been a bit more concise and less chaotic in its story approach, and it can even be seen as a sort of extension to the theme of the OC (if you tilt your head and squint a bit). 

 

The companions also make a lot of sense. They're around for a reason, but you don't really get rail-roaded into taking anyone along (though the party cap was really stupid. That's what console commands are for, I suppose). 

 

And the last evil ending is so, so good.

 

I also liked the spirit meter specifically because it made life difficult. I mean, once you have epic level characters, there isn't all that much external threat to be found, is there? 

 

Really, my only complaint would be that a happy ending option was available at all, because I thought it really undercut the tragedy inherent to the campaign. 

[kozzy420420]

For me it has some of the best writing of all time for an rpg. Up there with Planscape Torment for me as the best writing ever in rpgs. The story, characters and dialogue is all perfectly written.

[BoardGuest808888l]

The crafting system is quite good, I like it most compared to OC and SoZ. The story is OKish, much better than OC but it could be better there. One of the greatest appeal for me is the Spirit Eater system, it made the game not boring.

When I played MotB, I strive for Spirit Eater mechanism, get as much power as possible, the more the better. It is the one that make great story. Without it, the Knight-Captain is just another god-wannabe like that Charname# Bhaalspawn from Baldur's Gate. I don't bother with the concept of Good-Evil. After all, how can such concept be applied to one who can annihilate the likes of Okku or the Woodman ? In short, I rolled as a god.

[Arkalezth]

For me it has some of the best writing of all time for an rpg.

 

I guess it depends on the specific piece of writing you're looking at. I played an evil character last time, and unfortunately, many of the featured evil lines are very, very dumb. A few examples from the top of my head:

 

- "I want you to call me Master of Evil." (But if you don't like that title, Dark One and Almighty Saviour are also available).

 

- "Every village that you pass, I want you to burn it down and tell the residents that you do it in my name."

 

- And the simple, yet always reliable "murder this random innocent bystander because reasons" dialogue option. I mean, literally. There's this NPC that basically greets you and your options are 1) kill her or 2) leave. That's it.

 

Of course, evil or not, you don't have to pick these lines, but they're still there, and they're part of the writing. Perhaps the worst thing is that this is a rather common practice in many games.