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[BronzTrooper]

Not really.

 

Legion is/was of many geth but he seeks to be an individual from his own collective. Archtect supposedly was the guy who spawned the first blight and contributed to having the first warden. The only person from Mass Effect that the Archetect would be similar to by technicality is Tali because of how the Quarians created the Geth which started the war. 

 

I think you're getting the timeline mixed up.  The Architect only triggered the Fifth Blight, not the First, and he did it accidentally while trying to stop the Blights entirely.  You're thinking of Cory.  Also, comparing the Architect to Tali doesn't make much sense, considering how Tali is pretty anti-geth for ME1 and a good portion of ME2.  If you don't recruit Legion, she's anti-geth for ME3 as well.

 

LoL i don't even know where to begin here.

 

First architect is nuts scientist (well mage one of many) without any brakes that in fact not only is responsible creation of darkspawn and blights but also for fifith blight and darkspawn civil war he also wanted kill 90 % of human kind to get what he wanted if you don't start see why he is bad for human kind (as well any other than darkspawn) you may have problem.Then we go into that awakened darkspawn often showed madness and complete ruthlessness combined with intelligence.Somehow i can't see them not expanding own race and forces with only reason hedling them back being that they are nice guys add to that pretty much coexistence is impossible as simple darkspawn are toxic for all races.   

 

Yes he is he shares it with corry and another power hungry magisters it doesn't matter his actions not only created darkspawn before but also lead to fifith blight and darkspawn civil war and that without going into his doings and goals in The Calling.Architect is just yet another dangerous lunatic mage that don't care if he will blow up world in process.

 

There's almost nothing saying that the Architect is actually a magister.  Plus, you're using the events in Awakening as a reason why he can't be trusted, but you're also saying that the darkspawn are a threat to humans.  Considering how said 'civil war' would weaken the darkspawn as a whole due to the losses on both sides, wouldn't that just make the darkspawn that much less of a threat in the first place?

 

Not to mention that the Architect was far from being insane.  I think you're getting the Architect confused for the Mother, who was batshit crazy.  The Architect was trying to stop the Blights.  Considering how it's stated multiple times that the Blight would destroy the world if it wasn't stopped, it seems to me that he was trying to save the world, not destroy it.  Granted, that wasn't his main goal, but it would still be a side-effect of his goal.

 

Yes, it could be said that the more violent darkspawn could build up armies and attack the surface, but it's not like people haven't been doing that for centuries in Thedas' history.

[Sifr]

I think you're getting the timeline mixed up.  The Architect only triggered the Fifth Blight, not the First, and he did it accidentally while trying to stop the Blights entirely.  You're thinking of Cory.

 

Actually Inquisition heavily implied that the Architect is probably an amnesiac member of the Seven Magisters who broke into the Golden City lead by Corypheus, which would explain a lot about his forgotten origins, why he's cut off from the Call (much like Cory), his uniqueness amongst the darkspawn and why he so strongly resembles Corypheus?

 

There's also a codex entry about a dwarf who got lost in the Deep Roads and ended up encountering a ridiculous polite Darkspawn in the Deep Roads who could talk and offered him some food and water? And in the same codex, another dwarf who's grandfather apparently also discovered three talking darkspawn who talked about a City that was black?

 

Still, while this seems to confirm that the Architect definitely is dangerous and not to be trusted entirely, I still think he probably could prove to be useful since he does seem genuine in his desire to end the Blights? Perhaps he might have been lying and does remember his origins, but can you blame him for keeping schtum because he knew that we'd never have agreed to help him otherwise?

 

Could be that he's the Darkspawn version of Bruce Banner, a scientist who screwed up during an experiment, ended up turning himself into the Hulk and now desperately seeks to find a cure for himself?

[BronzTrooper]

Actually Inquisition heavily implied that the Architect is probably an amnesiac member of the Seven Magisters who broke into the Golden City lead by Corypheus, which would explain a lot about his forgotten origins, why he's cut off from the Call (much like Cory), his uniqueness amongst the darkspawn and why he so strongly resembles Corypheus?

 

There's also a codex entry about a dwarf who got lost in the Deep Roads and ended up encountering a ridiculous polite Darkspawn in the Deep Roads who could talk and offered him some food and water? And in the same codex, another dwarf who's grandfather apparently also discovered three talking darkspawn who talked about a City that was black?

 

Still, while this seems to confirm that the Architect definitely is dangerous and not to be trusted entirely, I still think he probably could prove to be useful since he does seem genuine in his desire to end the Blights? Perhaps he might have been lying and does remember his origins, but can you blame him for keeping schtum because he knew that we'd never have agreed to help him otherwise?

 

Could be that he's the Darkspawn version of Bruce Banner, a scientist who screwed up during an experiment, ended up turning himself into the Hulk and now desperately seeks to find a cure for himself?

 

Hmm... true, I forgot about that, but according to Awakening, the Architect was born as an intelligent darkspawn.  There's nothing saying that only the magisters that released the taint had that appearance (just look at the darkspawn emissaries in DA2).

 

Anyway, like I said, I would like the taint to be explored more in depth in DA:I's DLCs or DA4.  It's definitely an interesting subject.

[Sifr]

Hmm... true, I forgot about that, but according to Awakening, the Architect was born as an intelligent darkspawn.  There's nothing saying that only the magisters that released the taint had that appearance (just look at the darkspawn emissaries in DA2).

 

Anyway, like I said, I would like the taint to be explored more in depth in DA:I's DLCs or DA4.  It's definitely an interesting subject.

 

He was born that way as far as he knows, but he admits not being able to remember? (Or he was lying?)

 

Personally, I think he was originally meant to be a unique type of Darkspawn, but was changed sometime during the production of Awakening so that his origins were left more vague and open-ended? The idea that it was probably retconned seems to be borne out since in the novel "The Calling" he's described as just looking just like a bog-standard Emissary?

 

We know that they began production of DA2 sometime after Origins, presumably while they were working on Awakening as well, so I could see them having the first ideas of Corypheus in their mind and deciding to instead change the Architect's appearance and backstory to make the two linked?

[TheKomandorShepard]

Except that the Architect isn't insane, he's a perfectly rational being who's willing to use logic and reason to make a decision, as well as demonstrate a degree of compassion to his brethren and a desire to help them? The problem is that because he's now inhuman, he has a problem with understanding human morality and so doesn't see the harm he inadvertenly causes trying to solve a problem?

 

While I might be wrong, the implication that he's one of the Seven and reveal that they took pseudonyms based on their role in the ritual, makes me think that as the Architect, he was the brains behind the attempt to punch a hole into the Fade. This does not necessarily mean he was a bad guy, he could easily have done so for intellectual reasons, since walking in the Fade physically is seen as something most mages only dream of achieving? He could easily have been the Mordin of the Seven, the guy who was less concerned with the moral concerns of the experiment as much as the challenge of doing something impossible in the name of science?!

 

Sure, he did plan to infect most of Thedas with the Blight, but his intention was not malice but to try and make it so that darkspawn could exist alongside Thedas without conflict? And logically, if everyone was Tainted it would solve that problem. However, when he realised that it was not the best solution and it would cause more problems that it solved, he abandoned the idea entirely and sought another one?

 

Likewise, you can't fault him for wanting to try to and end the Blights by attempting to Awaken the Archdemon, which might free the other Darkspawn from the Call entirely? The only problem is that it either failed to work or that Urthemiel was accidentally corrupted before it could be attempted?

 

I personally see the Architect as being no different from the Wardens, since they both do morally sketchy things, including employing blood magic and the manipulation of the Taint to help them try and end the Blights once and for all? They are essentially two sides of the same coin.

 

While you're right that the Awakened 'Spawn can be dangerous, it could be that it's due to whomever made them? For the most part, the Architect's Disciples and the Ghouls allied with him seem to be more rational, whereas the Mother's are more bloodthirsty and crazy? The only exception seems to be the Withered, who to be fair, didn't fully understand the order he was given and assumed that "acquire the Warden's help at Vigil's Keep" meant to do so by force. Plus it could be argued he was technically acting in self-defence of his troops, since no doubt the Wardens stationed there would have opened fire on them immediately, even if he had attempted to parley with them?

 

As for the Mother and her troops being insane, I'd say that any Broodmother that was Awakened would be dangerous, since they were once regular people subjected to body horror and becoming self-aware and remembering who they were, obviously would send them round the bend? Adding to their being darkspawn baby factories, it'd follow that their offspring would probably be sentient and might inherit some of that insanity?

 

The Architect might make horrible mistakes, but at least he does learn not to repeat them  (unlike Anders or Solas) and attempts to correct those mistakes before attempting anything again? Allying with him at least would keep him in check and have the Wardens on hand to provide some kind of oversight and rein him in if he ever goes too far again?

 

As you said, the Darkspawn are walking Wastelands, but that perhaps could be curtailed if a cure was found, since it could be used on them as well? If the Darkspawn didn't infect anyone else, then theoretically, they could be safe to interact with? And it's not like such things aren't out of the realms of possibility, since the Wardens carry the Taint and aren't infectious until the onset of the Calling?

 

Like I said, it's a heck of a gamble and a major risk to take to ally with him, but it does offer some benefits or another set of options?

Except that he i want to remind that he tried kill almost all of human kind to get what he wanted so yes he is insane sociopath that don't care if he will blow up world in process.

 

LoL that is just naive and don't change fact what he did i have impression that in next your post you will protect him with that he didn't used slaves as fuel to get into the fade but only power of love and that architect is nicest and most heroic character in series despite that he deliberately tried kill almost all people in thedas.

 

Oh and we got into something i mocked above .(lol) Yes what doesn't change in fact he wanted and tried to do that and failed so he changed strategy and no changing strategy don't make him more sane or better as becoming politican after slaughter caused by me to promote my political views wouldn't be better.

 

Oh i can fault him and i will his methods prove that he is another dangerous lunatic mage that spawn major disaster after major disaster and don't give a damn that he will blow up world in process.

 

Wardens didn't try kill almost races in thedas ,wardens are far far more secure than he and his darkspawn are ( and that says a lot).

 

Yes of course darkspawn with architect are more rational and nicer except not one started slaughter keep murdering everyone there and tried to kill everyone outside warden commander and then negotiate with him after he killed everyone else and another killed elves to provoke insane elf to kill humans fully knowing what it will casue.And no it can't be aruged with as he not only killed everyone in keep he also tried kill all of your companions saving only warden commander.

 

Not rly he repeats them many times as i said he don't care if he will blow up world in process and he keeps doing that.And no it won't make him in check and any nicer or less dangerous only way to prevent him blowing up world yet again is kill him for good.

 

That is far beyond reach now and as i said asaide for 1000 other issues with darkspawn i don't see them waiting to cure with only motivation to be nice guy darkspawn given their tendency to agression and insanity will launch conquests because i don't see them being underdogs for others sake especially that architect already promotes darkspawn supremacy and tried to kill as i said allmost all other races for sake his own goals.

 

 

 

 

There's almost nothing saying that the Architect is actually a magister.  Plus, you're using the events in Awakening as a reason why he can't be trusted, but you're also saying that the darkspawn are a threat to humans.  Considering how said 'civil war' would weaken the darkspawn as a whole due to the losses on both sides, wouldn't that just make the darkspawn that much less of a threat in the first place?

 

Not to mention that the Architect was far from being insane.  I think you're getting the Architect confused for the Mother, who was batshit crazy.  The Architect was trying to stop the Blights.  Considering how it's stated multiple times that the Blight would destroy the world if it wasn't stopped, it seems to me that he was trying to save the world, not destroy it.  Granted, that wasn't his main goal, but it would still be a side-effect of his goal.

 

Yes, it could be said that the more violent darkspawn could build up armies and attack the surface, but it's not like people haven't been doing that for centuries in Thedas' history.

 

If that article is truthful pretty much we have that confirmed.And i use them right and no civil war is gone and it mostly pretty much punched ferelden and its people not darkspawn.

 

Did i mentioned he tried kill allmost all members of the other races and thought it was sane solution and he is nice guy if you see that as sane well you may consider well better not go into that territory.Yes so he tried kill almost all human kind to save human kind brilliant not to mention pretty much making endless blight without need for archdemon.

 

People don't try destroy own kind so no blight and darkspawn aren't equal to emperor that wants expand borders.

[Sifr]

Except that he i want to remind that he tried kill almost all of human kind to get what he wanted so yes he is insane sociopath that don't care if he will blow up world in process.

 

But he's clearly not an insane sociopath, since he's rational and he does care about the darkspawn and trying to co-exist with the rest of Thedas, he just doesn't know how to achieve that? If he was a sociopath, he'd have gone ahead with his plan anyway and not cared about the results, but instead, he changed his mind, showing that he's a rational being, albeit one that's got a skewed viewpoint?

 

LoL that is just naive and don't change fact what he did i have impression that in next your post you will protect him with that he didn't used slaves as fuel to get into the fade but only power of love and that architect is nicest and most heroic character in series despite that he deliberately tried kill almost all people in thedas.

 

I have no doubt that he used slaves and blood magic to enter the Fade, which is clearly abhorrent and something that can't be forgiven. At no point did I say that he's a nice guy or even a heroic figure? Much like Avernus, those actions do make him a monster, but nonetheless, you can't argue that what he and the other Magisters achieved was something that many thought was impossible?

 

Like I said, he strikes me as the Mordin and Maelon of Dragon Age, the type of person who might be involved in an sketchy experiment and attempt to rationalise the rather dubious morality of it as being necessary to get results? After all, Maelon's research was brutal but cured the genophage, while Mordin worked to maintain it for the longest time?

 

Oh i can fault him and i will his methods prove that he is another dangerous lunatic mage that spawn major disaster after major disaster and don't give a damn that he will blow up world in process.

 

But you've kinda said that about every mage in the past, the only difference here is that he happens to be a Darkspawn?

 

Wardens didn't try kill almost races in thedas ,wardens are far far more secure than he and his darkspawn are ( and that says a lot).

 

Well, except for the Wardens at Soldier's Peak that nearly caused a demonic invasion, which later got a far more involved updated remix at Adamant and could have unleashed a demonic army that would have almost wiped out Thedas as shown in the Dark Future?

 

Yes of course darkspawn with architect are more rational and nicer except not one started slaughter keep murdering everyone there and tried to kill everyone outside warden commander and then negotiate with him after he killed everyone else and another killed elves to provoke insane elf to kill humans fully knowing what it will casue.And no it can't be aruged with as he not only killed everyone in keep he also tried kill all of your companions saving only warden commander.

 

Which as I said, he did because he misunderstood the orders he was given.

 

He was told to get the Warden-Commander's help and to help them acquire Warden-blood for the experiments. The problem was that he assumed that meant attacking the Keep, forcing the Warden-Commander to agree to the terms and taking any Warden found alive as prisoner.

 

I'll grant you, it's kind of a big screw up, but it wasn't really the Architect's fault.

 

Not rly he repeats them many times as i said he don't care if he will blow up world in process and he keeps doing that.And no it won't make him in check and any nicer or less dangerous only way to prevent him blowing up world yet again is kill him for good.

 

Unless he can survive by jumping into others like Corypheus, which would mean that you've just alienated someone dangerous and given him a grudge and reluctance to seek outside help again?

 

You're not wrong. I completely agree with you that Architect is dangerous, can't be entirely trusted and as is partially responsible for over a millennia of death and suffering because of their attempt to breach the Golden City. There is a lot of blood on his hands. But I still think that the guy's offer to help is genuine and his expertise and knowledge could be used to help the Wardens find some way of ending the Blights or at least curing the Taint?

 

That being said, if he betrays the Wardens and his goals turn out to be less than equitable, then I'll be the first to murder knife him. Until then, I'm willing to at least hear the guy out and see what he might bring to the table?

[BronzTrooper]

If that article is truthful pretty much we have that confirmed.And i use them right and no civil war is gone and it mostly pretty much punched ferelden and its people not darkspawn.

 

Did i mentioned he tried kill allmost all members of the other races and thought it was sane solution and he is nice guy if you see that as sane well you may consider well better not go into that territory.Yes so he tried kill almost all human kind to save human kind brilliant not to mention pretty much making endless blight without need for archdemon.

 

People don't try destroy own kind so no blight and darkspawn aren't equal to emperor that wants expand borders.

 

All that article says about the Architect is that he's the same type of character as Cory, which is a very vague description.  Gaider doesn't go into any detail on how they are similar as characters, so that leaves a lot to interpretation.  As for the civil war, the only times that the people of Ferelden were hit were during the attacks on Vigil's Keep and Amaranthine, neither of which were the result of the Architect's forces clashing with the Mother's forces.  The first 'attack' on Vigil's Keep wasn't a true attack at all.  The Architect misjudged the reactions of the Wardens to his darkspawn approaching the Keep from below, who, naturally, viewed it as an attack.  Blame could also be put on the lieutenant he had leading his darkspawn, but not necessarily the Architect himself, since the only can be accused of having very poor judgement.

 

As for the attack on Amaranthine and the second attack on Vigil's Keep, both were by the Mother's forces.  By comparison, the darkspawn took many more casualties as a result of the Blight and the following civil war than Ferelden did.

 

You've constantly repeated that and I've yet to see a source confirming this.  Besides, the Architect is much more sane than characters like Cory, the hermit in the Brecilian Forest, Tarohne, etc.  You're talking about the Architect like he's the worst thing in the history of Thedas, which is far from the truth.

 

What would you prefer: your enemy having a clear goal (i.e.: destroying you) and knowing their motives, or an unpredictable enemy that can strike at you when you least expect it?  idk about you, but I'd prefer the former, since the former would be akin to the darkspawn while the latter would be akin to a foreign power.  People have the potential to be much more destructive than darkspawn, but they keep each other in check to prevent that.  Cory actually had to potential to do much more damage to the world than the Blight, and his forces consisted of demons, Venatori, and Templars who had been ingesting red lyrium.  He even had the Wardens under his command at one point.  But please, continue ranting about how the Architect is worse than everything else we've ran into in DA.

[raging_monkey]

Its cause the can cast magic is what earns his ire

[TheKomandorShepard]

But he's clearly not an insane sociopath, since he's rational and he does care about the darkspawn and trying to co-exist with the rest of Thedas, he just doesn't know how to achieve that? If he was a sociopath, he'd have gone ahead with his plan anyway and not cared about the results, but instead, he changed his mind, showing that he's a rational being, albeit one that's got an inhuman viewpoint?

 

 

 

 

I have no doubt that he used slaves and blood magic to enter the Fade, which is clearly abhorrent and something that can't be forgiven, but at no point did I say that he's a nice guy or even a heroic figure? Much like Avernus, those actions do make him a monster, but nonetheless, you can't argue that what he and the other Magisters achieved was something that many thought was impossible?

 

Like I said, he strikes me as the Mordin and Maelon of Dragon Age, the types of person who might be involved in an experiment and attempt to rationalise the rather dubious morality of them as being necessary to get results?

 

 

 

 

But you've kinda said that about every mage in the past, the only difference here is that he's happens to be a Darkspawn?

 

 

 

 

Well, except for the Wardens at Soldier's Peak that nearly unleashed a demonic army through the torn veil on purpose, which later got a far more involved updated remix at Adamant and could have unleashed a demonic army that would have almost wiped out Thedas as shown in the Dark Future?

 

 

 

 

Which as I said, he did because he misunderstood the orders he was given.

 

He was told to get the Warden-Commander's help and to help them acquire Warden-blood for the experiments. The problem was that he assumed that meant attacking the Keep, forcing the Warden-Commander to agree to the terms and taking any Warden found alive as prisoner.

 

I'll grant you, it's kind of a big screw up, but it wasn't really the Architect's fault.

 

 

 

 

Unless he can survive by jumping into others like Corypheus, which would mean that you've just alienated someone dangerous and given him a grudge and reluctance to seek outside help again?

 

You're not wrong. I completely agree with you that Architect is dangerous, can't be trusted and as is partially responsible for over a millennia of death and suffering because of their attempt to breach the Golden City. There is a lot of blood on his hands. But I still think that the guy's offer to help is genuine and his expertised and knowledge could be used to help the Wardens find some way of ending the Blights or at least curing the Taint?

 

That being said, if he betrays the Wardens and his goals turn out to be less than equitable, then I'll be the first to murder knife him. Until then, I'm willing to at least hear the guy out and see what he might bring to the table?

 

1.   i love how you paint him as not bad guy and explain why he is not bad guy then and then point that he is nice because he cares about consequences of his actions what is entirely false as i provided one exaple after another of him not giving f*** about consequences oh his actions.Pretty much entire plot of base game was because he didn't gave a damn as well expansion not mention other many activities that i already pointed. 

 

2.And in his case every reult was bad i don't even mind moral bankruptcy as myself im not moral individual but im sane amoral individual that won't blow up world over and over for sake of my goals.

 

3.Very little that is why in my opinion both need to be destroyed for sake of human kind in fact darkspawn are mages creation and architect was darkspawn and mage also originally he was mage that created darkspawn or at least unleashed them on the world and he keeps tormenting world with his insane and destructive ideas .

 

Yes but now compare that to what architect did caused 5th blight (not mention every other) and demloished ferelden once again with darkspawn civil war compared to avernus actions that we barely felt.Of course once again avernus = mage so here we go again. 

 

4.Great excue i wonder how many other darkspawn will misunderstood orders and start kill everyone all around great assurance that darkspawn that were with architect aren't violent and insane.

 

What means among other his screw ups and insane and destructive ideas that are horrible for all races he also can't control his people violent
 nature what proves even further that architect and his darkspawn are bad news.

 

5.Well in article i posted here DG said that he won't return if you killed him of course if article is legit.

 

6.As i said that guy tried kill almost all members of the races for sake of his own goal this isn't guy you trust with caring about humanity interests because he already proven that all he cares about are his own goals and is ready kill human kind for sake of them and that as i said without going into many other reasons why he is bad idea.

 

7.At the moment he will betray grey wardens will be moment when he will control tremendous organized horde that will be more dangerous than any blight before and will have no weak spot that is killing archdemon so well good luck with that.

 

 

All that article says about the Architect is that he's the same type of character as Cory, which is a very vague description.  Gaider doesn't go into any detail on how they are similar as characters, so that leaves a lot to interpretation.  As for the civil war, the only times that the people of Ferelden were hit were during the attacks on Vigil's Keep and Amaranthine, neither of which were the result of the Architect's forces clashing with the Mother's forces.  The first 'attack' on Vigil's Keep wasn't a true attack at all.  The Architect misjudged the reactions of the Wardens to his darkspawn approaching the Keep from below, who, naturally, viewed it as an attack.  Blame could also be put on the lieutenant he had leading his darkspawn, but not necessarily the Architect himself, since the only can be accused of having very poor judgement.

 

As for the attack on Amaranthine and the second attack on Vigil's Keep, both were by the Mother's forces.  By comparison, the darkspawn took many more casualties as a result of the Blight and the following civil war than Ferelden did.

 

You've constantly repeated that and I've yet to see a source confirming this.  Besides, the Architect is much more sane than characters like Cory, the hermit in the Brecilian Forest, Tarohne, etc.  You're talking about the Architect like he's the worst thing in the history of Thedas, which is far from the truth.

 

What would you prefer: your enemy having a clear goal (i.e.: destroying you) and knowing their motives, or an unpredictable enemy that can strike at you when you least expect it?  idk about you, but I'd prefer the former, since the former would be akin to the darkspawn while the latter would be akin to a foreign power.  People have the potential to be much more destructive than darkspawn, but they keep each other in check to prevent that.  Cory actually had to potential to do much more damage to the world than the Blight, and his forces consisted of demons, Venatori, and Templars who had been ingesting red lyrium.  He even had the Wardens under his command at one point.  But please, continue ranting about how the Architect is worse than everything else we've ran into in DA.

Read context he replied to...

And who is responsible for creating mother no one other your beloved architect so yes that whole civil war was his fault as mother was his creation , also his people (that he created) attacked and slaughtered people in keep civilians and no because his creation thought he meant to kill everyone and then negotiate with warden commander as he shows when we meet him.Also another of his people is responsible for massacre in forests (of course velanna was guilty as well but she was more tool) his people killed elves and planted evidence so she started to kill innocent people. 
 

Not rly and yes it was mother forces and look above for it ferelden took far more damage than darkspawn as i know farms and villages that were destroyed by darkspawn we have also have city and keep that at best were heavily damaged by them not mention ferelden forces killed by darkspawn and civilians add to that potential damge from blighted lands.

 

What that he tried kill almost entire human kind well read the calling if that he caused blights then you have article and da produtcs pointing in that direction.And yes he is worst thing in thedas history well one of the worst even if he wasn't magister and pretty much dg answered on context that he was he still tried to kill almost whole human race (as well any other) , caused fifth blight and darkspawn civil war.       

 

I would prefer enemy that have weakness what in darkspawn case is being disorganized and by that can't launch invasion on me architect practically takes that advantage away.And no both have same potential to lead to world destruction in fact corypheus even less when compared to architect because kill Corypheus and his plans are ruined when architect have great potential go even without him if he will be allowed to carry his plan.And i consider him an equal to Corypheus in that matter and well that is bad.

[BronzTrooper]

Read context he replied to...

And who is responsible for creating mother no one other your beloved architect so yes that whole civil war was his fault as mother was his creation , also his people (that he created) attacked and slaughtered people in keep civilians and no because his creation thought he meant to kill everyone and then negotiate with warden commander as he shows when we meet him.Also another of his people is responsible for massacre in forests (of course velanna was guilty as well but she was more tool) his people killed elves and planted evidence so she started to kill innocent people. 
 

Not rly and yes it was mother forces and look above for it ferelden took far more damage than darkspawn as i know farms and villages that were destroyed by darkspawn we have also have city and keep that at best were heavily damaged by them not mention ferelden forces killed by darkspawn and civilians add to that potential damge from blighted lands.

 

What that he tried kill almost entire human kind well read the calling if that he caused blights then you have article and da produtcs pointing in that direction.And yes he is worst thing in thedas history well one of worst even if he wasn't magister and pretty much dg answered on context that he was he still tried to kill almost whole human race (as well any other) , caused fifth blight and darkspawn civil war.       

 

I would prefer enemy that have weakness what in darkspawn case is being disorganized and by that can't launch invasion on me architect practically takes that advantage away.And no both have same potential to lead to world destruction in fact corypheus even less in compared to architect because kill Corypheus and his plans are ruined when architect have great potential go even without him if he will be allowed to carry his plan.And i consider him an equal to Corypheus in that matter and well that is bad.

 

I did read the context, and even then, his response was vague.

 

By that logic, when a mage turns to blood magic, their parents are at fault, even if said mage was raised in the Circle without any contact with them.  He said that his version of the Joining had no way of preventing the awakened darkspawn from going insane or making poor choices (just like how the Wardens' Joining had no way of preventing recruits from dying).  His lieutenants made poor decisions, as we all do, but throwing all the blame on the Architect because he gave them sentience is ridiculous.  You could just as easily blame the Maker for all the chaos in Thedas since it and everything and everyone in it was created by him (according to the Chantry).  He's also the same one who created the Blight in the first place, according to Chantry lore, so why throw all the blame on the Cory & Co.?

 

You seem to forget that so many darkspawn were killed during the Fourth Blight that most people thought they'd be wiped out permanently.  I guarantee that for every human, elf, and dwarf that was killed during the Blights, twice as many darkspawn were killed.  The reason why the darkspawn are a constant threat is due to the broodmothers incredibly fast reproduction rate, allowing them to replenish their numbers much faster than humans, elves, and dwarves can (qunari haven't had any real experience with Blights, so I'm not counting them).

 

Again, all that proves is poor judgement on his part, unless you can provide a direct quote where he states that he's a darkspawn supremacist and wants to kill everyone.

 

Funny how you completely ignore the options I stated and made up your own.  The darkspawn's strength is their numbers, that's it.  If their numbers matched that of all the humans, elves, dwarves, and qunari in Thedas, they'd lose.  Hell, one of the soldiers in Vigil's Keep specifically states that the Wardens that were in the Keep at the time of the attack (only around a dozen or so strong) slaughtered the darkspawn in droves before being overwhelmed.  If the darkspawn were equal in numbers to the Wardens and soldiers in the Keep, they would've been slaughtered.

 

Yes, the darkspawn becoming intelligent gets them closer to being on par with the average Thedosian soldier (professional, not militia), but the Mother's forces severely outnumber your own in Vigil's Keep and they still lose, despite having multiple awakened darkspawn in their ranks along with the Children.

 

Also, Cory was essentially immortal with his dragon, which allowed him to body-hop on death.  Hell, he body-hopped into Larius/Janeka in Legacy when Hawke killed him, and there was no signs of him having a dragon at the time.  Once his dragon was dead, Cory was just as vulnerable as any other darkspawn short of an archdemon.  Granted, it doesn't really make much sense for him to rely on his dragon for him to be able to body-hop, but whatever, that's how the devs had it work out in DA:I.

 

Not to mention that Gaider mentions in that article that you linked that if you killed him in Awakening, you likely won't see him in whatever DLCs that are in the works, so whatever you think he was trying to do is stopped in Awakening if you kill him.

[TheKomandorShepard]

I did read the context, and even then, his response was vague.

 

By that logic, when a mage turns to blood magic, their parents are at fault, even if said mage was raised in the Circle without any contact with them.  He said that his version of the Joining had no way of preventing the awakened darkspawn from going insane or making poor choices (just like how the Wardens' Joining had no way of preventing recruits from dying).  His lieutenants made poor decisions, as we all do, but throwing all the blame on the Architect because he gave them sentience is ridiculous.  You could just as easily blame the Maker for all the chaos in Thedas since it and everything and everyone in it was created by him (according to the Chantry).  He's also the same one who created the Blight in the first place, according to Chantry lore, so why throw all the blame on the Cory & Co.?

 

You seem to forget that so many darkspawn were killed during the Fourth Blight that most people thought they'd be wiped out permanently.  I guarantee that for every human, elf, and dwarf that was killed during the Blights, twice as many darkspawn were killed.  The reason why the darkspawn are a constant threat is due to the broodmothers incredibly fast reproduction rate, allowing them to replenish their numbers much faster than humans, elves, and dwarves can (qunari haven't had any real experience with Blights, so I'm not counting them).

 

Again, all that proves is poor judgement on his part, unless you can provide a direct quote where he states that he's a darkspawn supremacist and wants to kill everyone.

 

Funny how you completely ignore the options I stated and made up your own.  The darkspawn's strength is their numbers, that's it.  If their numbers matched that of all the humans, elves, dwarves, and qunari in Thedas, they'd lose.  Hell, one of the soldiers in Vigil's Keep specifically states that the Wardens that were in the Keep at the time of the attack (only around a dozen or so strong) slaughtered the darkspawn in droves before being overwhelmed.  If the darkspawn were equal in numbers to the Wardens and soldiers in the Keep, they would've been slaughtered.

 

Yes, the darkspawn becoming intelligent gets them closer to being on par with the average Thedosian soldier (professional, not militia), but the Mother's forces severely outnumber your own in Vigil's Keep and they still lose, despite having multiple awakened darkspawn in their ranks along with the Children.

 

Also, Cory was essentially immortal with his dragon, which allowed him to body-hop on death.  Hell, he body-hopped into Larius/Janeka in Legacy when Hawke killed him, and there was no signs of him having a dragon at the time.  Once his dragon was dead, Cory was just as vulnerable as any other darkspawn short of an archdemon.  Granted, it doesn't really make much sense for him to rely on his dragon for him to be able to body-hop, but whatever, that's how the devs had it work out in DA:I.

 

Not to mention that Gaider mentions in that article that you linked that if you killed him in Awakening, you likely won't see him in whatever DLCs that are in the works, so whatever you think he was trying to do is stopped in Awakening if you kill him.

 

Context don't leave much room for interpretation despite that in other circumstances his answer would be vague question was clear whether corypheus is magister.

 

And no no architect = no mother and no awakened darkspawn what means no civil war he caused that because of his insane and destructive experiments and as scientist that expermients will cause disaster he is in fault of it and comparison to the parents is just horrible.Wardens joinding don't equal catastrophe national scale or even world scale so yet another horrible comparison.Haha i love how you point that i can't blame maker and next thing you do is blame here there is zero evidence of maker existence and in either scenario (with maker or not) architect and corry are responsible as velanna is responsible for killing people even more so as velanna thing was set up by architect people here they did it voluntarily not giving f**** about consequences (and that is maker scenario) with that if maker part is true he can be blamed as well for blights.

 

Fourth blight isn't fifth blight or darkspawn cirvil war (in fact darkspawn civil war is almost complety different disaster).

 

Haha and now you are nothing more than architect apologist that will ignore any evidence like the calling because if it proves that architect is bad idea it doesn't exist.

 

Not at all and yes where darkspawn numbers are huge advantage it is said that single hurlock can match even multiple opponents not mention their strenght and endurance.And what does that have to anyting i have said lol?

 

LoL mother forces don't lose well only way them to lose is the warden there otherwise keep is destroyed and at best rebuilt.

 

Here is codex entry for hurlocks "Taller than their genlock cousins, the hurlocks are roughly of human-size but are possessed of considerable strength and constitution. The shock troop of the darkspawn, a single berserking hurlock can often be a match for numerous opponents at once." it shows in fact they aren't averge warriors.

 

Here is part of the codex for genlocks "These are the most common darkspawn in the underground. Stocky and tough, genlocks are notoriously difficult to kill, even by magic."

 

In fact every darkspawn codex type shows they are far beyond average warrior.

 

You misunderstood me what i have said it isn't about corypheus immortality (he could be killed and he was) it is about that corypheus plans die with him if architect is allowed to act at some point even if killed he can be replaced by any other darkspawn not mention having unstoppable and organized that thedas in fact never could match even if thedas united they always won because they have killed archdemon. 

[BronzTrooper]

Context don't leave much room for interpretation despite that in other circumstances his answer would be vague question was clear whether corypheus is magister.

 

That's like saying that since Anders and Stroud are both Wardens, they're the same type of character.  All Gaider says is that they are the same type of character, which doesn't necessarily mean that they were both magisters.

 

And no no architect = no mother and no awakened darkspawn what means no civil war he caused that because of his insane and destructive experiments and as scientist that expermients will cause disaster he is in fault of it and comparison to the parents is just horrible.Wardens joinding don't equal catastrophe national scale or even world scale so yet another horrible comparison.Haha i love how you point that i can't blame maker and next thing you do is blame here there is zero evidence of maker existence and in either scenario (with maker or not) architect and corry are responsible as velanna is responsible for killing people even more so as velanna thing was set up by architect people here they did it voluntarily not giving f**** about consequences (and that is maker scenario) with that if maker part is true he can be blamed as well for blights.

 

You completely missed my point.  The awoken darkspawn had free will, some making poor decisions like any normal person would do.  Here's a better example: If Loghain had never been born, he wouldn't have been able to ditch Cailan at Ostagar or started a civil war in Ferelden which resulted in more casualties than just the horde itself would've inflicted.  The Fifth Blight would've been stopped sooner and with less casualties.  Not to mention that Hawke would've never went to Kirkwall, Anders would've never destroyed the Kirkwall Chantry, the Mage/Templar War would never have been started, and Cory would've never been freed, thus preventing the events in DA:I from ever happening.

 

I never said anything about whether or not the Maker actually existed, all I said was that if you went by Chantry lore, you could easily blame him for the Blights.  Especially since he tainted the magisters that went into the Black City in the first place (according to Chantry lore).

 

Also, how exactly is the darkspawn civil war a national catastrophe when it was restricted to just the arling of Amaranthine (which isn't even that large of an area in Ferelden)?

 

Fourth blight isn't fifth blight or darkspawn cirvil war (in fact darkspawn civil war is almost complety different disaster).

 

Again, you're missing my point.  In the Legacy DLC, Janeka clearly states that the Fifth Blight was the least costly out of all of the previous Blights.  The Fourth Blight spanned nations.  The Fifth Blight was only in Ferelden.  You're acting like the Fifth Blight was the worst out of all the Blights, even though that is so far from the truth it doesn't make sense.

 

Haha and now you are nothing more than architect apologist that will ignore any evidence like the calling because if it proves that architect is bad idea it doesn't exist.

 

So you can't provide a direct quote supporting your side?

 

 

 

Not at all and yes where darkspawn numbers are huge advantage it is said that single hurlock can match even multiple opponents not mention their strenght and endurance.And what does that have to anyting i have said lol?

 

Here is codex entry for hurlocks "Taller than their genlock cousins, the hurlocks are roughly of human-size but are possessed of considerable strength and constitution. The shock troop of the darkspawn, a single berserking hurlock can often be a match for numerous opponents at once." it shows in fact they aren't averge warriors.

 

Here is part of the codex for genlocks "These are the most common darkspawn in the underground. Stocky and tough, genlocks are notoriously difficult to kill, even by magic."

 

In fact every darkspawn codex type shows they are far beyond average warrior.

 

1) The codex states a berserking hurlock, and we know that Berserkers rely on pure rage and brute strength, not to mention that they are very difficult to kill when in full rage.

 

2) Genlocks come from dwarven broodmothers, and dwarves are naturally stocky and resistant to magic.  It only makes sense that they inherit traits from dwarves, especially since dwarves make some of the best warriors due to their experience with fighting darkspawn.

 

3) And yet, each Blight has been beaten back, and the majority of the armies that fought in the Blights were just soldiers from the various human nations, Wardens making up less than half of them.

 

LoL mother forces don't lose well only way them to lose is the warden there otherwise keep is destroyed and at best rebuilt.

 

You obviously haven't done all the necessary upgrades to the Keep (closing the underground passages, upgrading the walls, providing Wade with the necessary metals to arm and armor your troops, etc.).  The Keep will survive if you decide to protect Amaranthine as long as you have those upgrades and the Mother's forces will fall back.

 

You misunderstood me what i have said it isn't about corypheus immortality (he could be killed and he was) it is about that corypheus plans die with him if architect is allowed to act at some point even if killed he can be replaced by any other darkspawn not mention having unstoppable and organized that thedas in fact never could match even if thedas united they always won because they have killed archdemon. 

 

And just how many of the Architect's lieutenants do you think know how to preform his version of the Joining?  The preparations for the ritual die with him if you decide to kill him, which prevents more darkspawn being put through it and becoming sentient.  Just like how Cory's plan lives and dies with him.

 

 

You know, I might be able to take you more seriously if you weren't such a condescending ******.  Your spelling and grammatical errors I can handle (giving you the benefit of the doubt and assuming english isn't your first language), but the tone of your posts is grating on my nerves.  I'm trying to be reasonable, but the more of your posts I read, the more I become convinced that you're trying to troll.

[TheKomandorShepard]

That's like saying that since Anders and Stroud are both Wardens, they're the same type of character.  All Gaider says is that they are the same type of character, which doesn't necessarily mean that they were both magisters.

 

 

You completely missed my point.  The awoken darkspawn had free will, some making poor decisions like any normal person would do.  Here's a better example: If Loghain had never been born, he wouldn't have been able to ditch Cailan at Ostagar or started a civil war in Ferelden which resulted in more casualties than just the horde itself would've inflicted.  The Fifth Blight would've been stopped sooner and with less casualties.  Not to mention that Hawke would've never went to Kirkwall, Anders would've never destroyed the Kirkwall Chantry, the Mage/Templar War would never have been started, and Cory would've never been freed, thus preventing the events in DA:I from ever happening.

 

I never said anything about whether or not the Maker actually existed, all I said was that if you went by Chantry lore, you could easily blame him for the Blights.  Especially since he tainted the magisters that went into the Black City in the first place (according to Chantry lore).

 

Also, how exactly is the darkspawn civil war a national catastrophe when it was restricted to just the arling of Amaranthine (which isn't even that large of an area in Ferelden)?

 

 

Again, you're missing my point.  In the Legacy DLC, Janeka clearly states that the Fifth Blight was the least costly out of all of the previous Blights.  The Fourth Blight spanned nations.  The Fifth Blight was only in Ferelden.  You're acting like the Fifth Blight was the worst out of all the Blights, even though that is so far from the truth it doesn't make sense.

 

 

So you can't provide a direct quote supporting your side?

 

 

 

 

1) The codex states a berserking hurlock, and we know that Berserkers rely on pure rage and brute strength, not to mention that they are very difficult to kill when in full rage.

 

2) Genlocks come from dwarven broodmothers, and dwarves are naturally stocky and resistant to magic.  It only makes sense that they inherit traits from dwarves, especially since dwarves make some of the best warriors due to their experience with fighting darkspawn.

 

3) And yet, each Blight has been beaten back, and the majority of the armies that fought in the Blights were just soldiers from the various human nations, Wardens making up less than half of them.

 

 

You obviously haven't done all the necessary upgrades to the Keep (closing the underground passages, upgrading the walls, providing Wade with the necessary metals to arm and armor your troops, etc.).  The Keep will survive if you decide to protect Amaranthine as long as you have those upgrades and the Mother's forces will fall back.

 

 

And just how many of the Architect's lieutenants do you think know how to preform his version of the Joining?  The preparations for the ritual die with him if you decide to kill him, which prevents more darkspawn being put through it and becoming sentient.  Just like how Cory's plan lives and dies with him.

 

If author asked if anders is like stroud grey warden and dg said yes they same type of character that would mean yes anders is grey warden like stoud not they are the same because both like pancakes what would be completely from nowhere and didn't even refer to question.

 

Awakened darkspawn were result of architect experiments often showing insanity and complete ruthlessness along with agression reproduction is natural process that in itself isn't harmfull and serves to preserve species and don't automatically means harmfull individual in fact most of people well almost all are part of society.Architect created disaster on national scale with his experiments threatening also world safety.So no that my mother born me isn't equal to creating army of hostile and insane beings that demolish world.

 

In first place that is not true architect caused blight not loghain and in fact it was lost battle especially that we are talking about idiot king that siad tactics are lame.We are talking about blight and 1 country facing it even thedas united couldn't defeat blight only stop it by killing archdemon that wasn't taking part in it.Also anders actions had nothing to do with blight and more hatred for chantry plus corypheus would escape anyway it is clear that seals are weakening.Loghain stabbed in back foolish king possibly even saving ferelden architect started blight in first place.

 

 

Of course you said not directly but you accused of not blaming maker for blights what in first place make you assume that maker exists or at least i belive he exists what i never said.

 

It touched whole country with darkspawn rampaging around of it and 1 of major cities.   
 

Now i don't even know what you are talking about because now you puting things into my mouth that i said or act as 5 blight was worst blight whan i in fact contradicted as i said it wasn't same as fourth blight.And no blights are disasters on world scale that hero (the warden) saved the day don't make it any better for architect for causing it as it doesn't make corypheus look better because inquisitor killed him.

 

LoL i don't have to ,all you need to do is read book as whole plot and architect motivation in book resolves around it all you need to do is go read wiki on his plans so i don't even see point someone bothering and looking quotes in book when practically it is easy information to find on wiki.

 

1)Doesn't matter as i said far above avrege warrior not mention that author praise their huge strenght and constitution and this is not what you say toward an avrege warrior and that are not awakened darkspawn.

 

2)Completly ignored point in fact i would even said deliberately avoided it. Codex said that they were difficult to kill even with magic and this is not something you say about an average warrior.

 

3)And yet completly ignored what i have said earlier blights were never truly defeated by sheer of strenght even with whole thedas united against it blight was always stopped only because archdemon was slained and by that darkspawn fled to the deep roads we can pretty much see that in denerim during blight despite darkspawn pretty much could won this battle after archdemon they lost only thing that keep them organized and united. 

 

From what i know keep always falls (if you save city) however if you upgrade it fully damge will be reduced same for losses and keep will be rebuild and that is pretty much if you give your people hyper mega equipment ,get bombs and have excellent protected keep  .
 
I hope none if killed, if he will stay alive numbers of those certainly will raise to the point he won't be required.   
      

[raging_monkey]

That's like saying that since Anders and Stroud are both Wardens, they're the same type of character.  All Gaider says is that they are the same type of character, which doesn't necessarily mean that they were both magisters.
 

 
You completely missed my point.  The awoken darkspawn had free will, some making poor decisions like any normal person would do.  Here's a better example: If Loghain had never been born, he wouldn't have been able to ditch Cailan at Ostagar or started a civil war in Ferelden which resulted in more casualties than just the horde itself would've inflicted.  The Fifth Blight would've been stopped sooner and with less casualties.  Not to mention that Hawke would've never went to Kirkwall, Anders would've never destroyed the Kirkwall Chantry, the Mage/Templar War would never have been started, and Cory would've never been freed, thus preventing the events in DA:I from ever happening.
 
I never said anything about whether or not the Maker actually existed, all I said was that if you went by Chantry lore, you could easily blame him for the Blights.  Especially since he tainted the magisters that went into the Black City in the first place (according to Chantry lore).
 
Also, how exactly is the darkspawn civil war a national catastrophe when it was restricted to just the arling of Amaranthine (which isn't even that large of an area in Ferelden)?
 

 
Again, you're missing my point.  In the Legacy DLC, Janeka clearly states that the Fifth Blight was the least costly out of all of the previous Blights.  The Fourth Blight spanned nations.  The Fifth Blight was only in Ferelden.  You're acting like the Fifth Blight was the worst out of all the Blights, even though that is so far from the truth it doesn't make sense.
 

 
So you can't provide a direct quote supporting your side?
 

 
 


 
1) The codex states a berserking hurlock, and we know that Berserkers rely on pure rage and brute strength, not to mention that they are very difficult to kill when in full rage.
 
2) Genlocks come from dwarven broodmothers, and dwarves are naturally stocky and resistant to magic.  It only makes sense that they inherit traits from dwarves, especially since dwarves make some of the best warriors due to their experience with fighting darkspawn.
 
3) And yet, each Blight has been beaten back, and the majority of the armies that fought in the Blights were just soldiers from the various human nations, Wardens making up less than half of them.
 

 
You obviously haven't done all the necessary upgrades to the Keep (closing the underground passages, upgrading the walls, providing Wade with the necessary metals to arm and armor your troops, etc.).  The Keep will survive if you decide to protect Amaranthine as long as you have those upgrades and the Mother's forces will fall back.
 

 
And just how many of the Architect's lieutenants do you think know how to preform his version of the Joining?  The preparations for the ritual die with him if you decide to kill him, which prevents more darkspawn being put through it and becoming sentient.  Just like how Cory's plan lives and dies with him.
 
 
You know, I might be able to take you more seriously if you weren't such a condescending ******.  Your spelling and grammatical errors I can handle (giving you the benefit of the doubt and assuming english isn't your first language), but the tone of your posts is grating on my nerves.  I'm trying to be reasonable, but the more of your posts I read, the more I become convinced that you're trying to troll.

It gets worst... give him a post or 2

[TheKomandorShepard]

It gets worst... give him a post or 2

Of course it gets worse if you have no arguments for example like you going into topics that i write in and saying "ohoho this is TKS he is bad guy .Why? emmm eee i don't know (he destroyed my ridiculous arguments) but i will keep saying TKS bad to the point everyone will belive he is bad guy!" 

 

 

You know, I might be able to take you more seriously if you weren't such a condescending ******.  Your spelling and grammatical errors I can handle (giving you the benefit of the doubt and assuming english isn't your first language), but the tone of your posts is grating on my nerves.  I'm trying to be reasonable, but the more of your posts I read, the more I become convinced that you're trying to troll.

I see you edited

You are one insulting me and then you accuse me that im trolling here way to go...

If you were reasonable you wouldn't ask for quotes of something that you can easily find yourself even by simple reading architect page on wiki.You could as well ask me for quotes that dao is about blight.

 

Not mention other shady arguments that ignore points of my arguments or simple arguments from nowhere on topic i wasn't even discussing.
 

[Sifr]

1.   i love how you paint him as not bad guy and explain why he is not bad guy then and then point that he is nice because he cares about consequences of his actions what is entirely false as i provided one exaple after another of him not giving f*** about consequences oh his actions.Pretty much entire plot of base game was because he didn't gave a damn as well expansion not mention other many activities that i already pointed. 

 

2.And in his case every reult was bad i don't even mind moral bankruptcy as myself im not moral individual but im sane amoral individual that won't blow up world over and over for sake of my goals.

 

3.Very little that is why in my opinion both need to be destroyed for sake of human kind in fact darkspawn are mages creation and architect was darkspawn and mage also originally he was mage that created darkspawn or at least unleashed them on the world and he keeps tormenting world with his insane and destructive ideas .

 

Yes but now compare that to what architect did caused 5th blight (not mention every other) and demloished ferelden once again with darkspawn civil war compared to avernus actions that we barely felt.Of course once again avernus = mage so here we go again. 

 

4.Great excue i wonder how many other darkspawn will misunderstood orders and start kill everyone all around great assurance that darkspawn that were with architect aren't violent and insane.

 

What means among other his screw ups and insane and destructive ideas that are horrible for all races he also can't control his people violent
 nature what proves even further that architect and his darkspawn are bad news.

 

5.Well in article i posted here DG said that he won't return if you killed him of course if article is legit.

 

6.As i said that guy tried kill almost all members of the races for sake of his own goal this isn't guy you trust with caring about humanity interests because he already proven that all he cares about are his own goals and is ready kill human kind for sake of them and that as i said without going into many other reasons why he is bad idea.

 

7.At the moment he will betray grey wardens will be moment when he will control tremendous organized horde that will be more dangerous than any blight before and will have no weak spot that is killing archdemon so well good luck with that.

 

1. Again, read what I wrote, did I ever say that he's a nice guy? All I said is that he cares about trying to end the Blights and trying to free the Darkspawn from the Old Gods, which doesn't equate the same thing? The best you can call the Architect is an anti-villain, since he's not maliciously causing problems because he can, but accidentally.

 

2. Except that he's not "blowing up the world over and over" as you keep saying, which I find puzzling? Unlike Corypheus who upon being awoken accidentally in Legacy, sought to once again break into the Fade, the Architect has never attempted to replicate that experiment (if he indeeds remembers having done so the first time) at any point in the last millennia?

 

From what we do know of his timeline, he's only really started becoming active within the last forty years, having been involved in the events of "The Calling" novel and then waiting over two to three decades before accidentally causing the rise of Urthemiel? Aside from those three acts, the latter two only happening within a few decades or so of each other, as far as we know, he's spent most of the past millennia sitting around doing nothing?

 

3. Which if we're being fair, does makes you a tad biased, since you're basically saying that Mages = Darkspawn in your viewpoint?

 

Which ignores the fact that aside from both having the potential to be highly destructive, Mages are self-aware individuals with free-will and the capacity to make a decision to act for good or bad, whereas the Darkspawn exhibit mindless, animalistic behaviour and operate on a horde mentality directed by the Archdemon, unless given self-awareness through the Architect?

 

Likewise, of our two resident mage companions who became abominations in the series, Wynne never became as destructive as Anders did because of the passive nature of the Spirit of Faith that she bonded with, whereas he was corrupted by the fact that Justice cannot stand idly by and watch? And aside from that, it's worth remember that as bad as Anders got in his pursuit of mage freedom, he nonetheless continued to work for the entire duration of his time in Kirkwall as a healer of the sick and injured, showing that he still had some selfless qualities?

 

As for the Architect having "demolished" Ferelden, that doesn't seem to be true, since despite the ravages of the Blight upon the land (which has mostly healed by Inquisition), the country itself has been said to have thrived since the ending of the Fifth Blight? It's been far more politically stable than Orlais, the Free Marches or even Nevarra, all of which seem to be on the brink of war with themselves or their neighbours?

 

4. Because screwing up and misunderstanding orders is solely the province of Darkspawn?

 

Look at Blackwall's backstory for how even a normal person can accidentally have a mission go entirely FUBAR through sheer miscommunication or following the order as given, unaware that it was not what the person wanted. Blackwall ordered his men to kill everyone in the carriage and they did. It wasn't their fault (or his) that the carriage had contained the target's wife and children as well, which wasn't the plan at all?

 

5. Gaider said he probably won't appear if you killed him... but that doesn't mean he's necessarily "dead?" After all, we "killed" Corypheus in Legacy?

 

6. Again, how is being motivated by one's own goals any different from anyone else in the setting?

 

Have we not seen time and again that Warden's are willing to sacrifice others to end the Blights at any cost? The fact that Clarel was, under no compulsion from Corypheus in any way, actually going to go along with the plan to raise a Demon Army to take down the Old Gods slumbering in the Deep Roads, shows that even Wardens aren't immune to this kind of thing?

 

Sera is willing to lie, murder and steal in the pursuit of helping the helpless as part of Red Jenny? Anders was willing to blow up the Chantry to send a message to the Templars that the Mages wouldn't be cowed anymore? Howe murdered his oldest friend and numerous others to try and seize power for himself?

 

To say he's the only one with any kind of self-interest and is dangerous simply because he's willing to act on it, doesn't factor in the numerous other dangerous people we've seen in the setting doing things for their own goals, both hero and villain alike?

 

7. Really, because at the moment the Awakened under his banner seem to follow him almost exclusively, as they did during the events of Awakening? He could have easily turned his army against the Wardens, who were already weakened after the assault on Vigil's Keep by the Mother's forces, but he didn't?

 

He's not to be trusted for sure, and for an immortal being, ten years is a flash in the pan, but he's thus-far kept up his end of the bargain and aided the Wardens in their goal of ending the Blights once and for all. As long as they share that common goal, they're tenative allies for the moment?

 

Will he eventually betray them after they have no longer any need of each other... perhaps? But damning someone for something they might do, sometime in the future seems like an excercise in madness to me?

 

That's in the same kind of extremism as wanting to Tranquil all Mages because some of them might prove to be dangerous in the future, or killing any Qunari you see because their race might invade Thedas sometime in the future? Or lock all women in Thedas away in secure locations, because some of them might be caught by darkspawn and turned into broodmothers?

 

Did the Warden know that s/he might accidentally spark an international Mage-Templar war because s/he recruited a sarcastic, cat-loving mage into the Wardens and introduced him to a Spirit of Justice? Of course not, but you don't blame the Warden for having not known that at the time, right?

 

Or how Varric didn't know that getting Hawke involved in Bartrand's expedition would lead to his brother and Meredith going nuts because of the Red Lyrium they found, Hawke's sibling either dying or becoming a Warden, as well as causing the rise of the Red Templars in Inquisition?

 

Likewise, Malcolm Hawke didn't know that his taking the job for the Wardens under duress, would lead his child eventually being manipulated to head to Corypheus' prison and forced to release him in order to escape? Then despite his child killing Corypheus, he would end up surviving anyway by jumping into a nearby Grey Warden? Then would end up meeting up with an Ancient Elven God, steal his Orb and attempt to break back into the Fade?

 

Unless you're a Rivaini Seer or have a crystal ball that allows foreknowledge for how the series will play out in future games, no-one can know how the events will transpire and whether or not any decision might turn out for good or bad in the end?

[BronzTrooper]

If author asked if anders is like stroud grey warden and dg said yes they same type of character that would mean yes anders is grey warden like stoud not they are the same because both like pancakes what would be completely from nowhere and didn't even refer to question.

 

Pretty much my point.  Gaider never says how exactly they are the same type of character.  For all we know, he probably meant that they're the same type of character because they're both sentient darkspawn.

 

Awakened darkspawn were result of architect experiments often showing insanity and complete ruthlessness along with agression reproduction is natural process that in itself isn't harmfull and serves to preserve species and don't automatically means harmfull individual in fact most of people well almost all are part of society.Architect created disaster on national scale with his experiments threatening also world safety.So no that my mother born me isn't equal to creating army of hostile and insane beings that demolish world.  

 

Yet again, you're missing my point.  The Architect's experiments weren't for the express purpose of killing every non-darkspawn, not to mention that we only saw a few out of all of the awoken darkspawn actually speak.  The Mother and her lieutenants were insane and hostile, but they only represented a portion of the awoken darkspawn, not the whole.  The Architect's lieutenants were more sane and less hostile (look at the messenger at Amaranthine).  Yes, the lieutenant that suggested killing Velanna's clan was on the ruthless side, but their goal was to get the attention of the Wardens, not just kill whoever they could.  An insane darkspawn would've just started slaughtering everyone that entered the area.

 

Plus, I wasn't saying anything about the morality of reproduction.  I was simply using Loghain's actions as an example of how removing one person could stop an series of different events from occuring.

 

In first place that is not true architect caused blight not loghain and in fact it was lost battle especially that we are talking about idiot king that siad tactics are lame.We are talking about blight and 1 country facing it even thedas united couldn't defeat blight only stop it by killing archdemon that wasn't taking part in it.Also anders actions had nothing to do with blight and more hatred for chantry plus corypheus would escape anyway it is clear that seals are weakening.Loghain stabbed in back foolish king possibly even saving ferelden architect started blight in first place.   

 

I never said that he did, only that his abandoning of Cailan at Ostagar resulted in a series of events that nearly destroyed Ferelden, not to mention potentially the world.  Also, Cailan had approached Orlais for support (which could've turned the tide at Ostagar), but Loghain wouldn't have it due to his hatred of Orlais.  Hell, his hatred of Orlais was so great that he was utterly convinced that they would be making a move to invade and waved off the Blight as an unusually large darkspawn raid.

 

Without Hawke to stop the Qunari invasion of Kirkwall, there wouldn't be a reason for Anders to destroy the Chantry since the Templars would've been all but wiped out in Kirkwall, along with many of the mages.  This would prevent tensions rising between the Templars and mages, thus resulting in the Mage/Templar War not kicking off at all, since the events at Kirkwall resulted in stricter restrictions in Circles across Thedas which prompted Fiona to push for a vote on whether or not the Circles should break away from the Chantry.

 

As for Cory, the fact that the Wardens knew that the seals were weakening and actually working to maintain their strength means that they would've eventually had another mage come in to reinforce the seals.  If they didn't, then it would still be decades before the seals wore off to the point that Cory could release himself.  Hawke just sped up the process by breaking the seals.

 

Of course you said not directly but you accused of not blaming maker for blights what in first place make you assume that maker exists or at least i belive he exists what i never said. 

 

I'm not even sure what you're trying to say here.

 

It touched whole country with darkspawn rampaging around of it and 1 of major cities.

 

The Blight did 5 times more damage than the darkspawn civil war.  That hardly qualifies as a national catastrophe.

 

Now i don't even know what you are talking about because now you puting things into my mouth that i said or act as 5 blight was worst blight whan i in fact contradicted as i said it wasn't same as fourth blight.And no blights are disasters on world scale that hero (the warden) saved the day don't make it any better for architect for causing it as it doesn't make corypheus look better because inquisitor killed him.

 

You talk about me putting words in your mouth (which I didn't do), yet you're doing just that.  I never said anything about the Architect or Cory looking like better people because of who killed them.  In fact, I didn't even compare the 2 in the section of my post you're referring to here.  Also, you talk about the Architect like he directly caused the First Blight (which was the worst of the Blights) when there is nothing supporting that.

 

Plus, the Architect didn't deliberately trigger the Fifth Blight.  As with any science experiment, there are bound to be unintended results.

 

LoL i don't have all you need to do is read book as whole plot and architect motivation in book resolves around it all you need to do is go read wiki on his plans so i don't even see point someone bothering and looking quotes in book when practically it is easy information to find on wiki.

 

Since you believe it is so easy to find it, why not provide a link?  You were quick enough to link the article with Gaider talking about the Architect.

 

1)Doesn't matter as i said far above avrege warrior not mention that author praise their huge strenght and constitution and this is not what you say toward an avrege warrior and that are not awakened darkspawn.

 

2)Completly ignored point in fact i would even said deliberately avoided it. Codex said that they were difficult to kill even with magic and this is not something you say about an average warrior.

 

3)And yet completly ignored what i have said earlier blights were never truly defeated by sheer of strenght even with whole thedas united against it blight was always stopped only because archdemon was slained and by that darkspawn fled to the deep roads we can pretty much see that in denerim during blight despite darkspawn pretty much could won this battle 

 

1) The exact wording is that they "possess considerable strength and constitution", which does not mean they are incredibly strong and resilient.  Maybe slightly more-so than the average soldier, but not to the point of being able to easily overpower them.

 

2) As I said, they come from dwarven broodmothers, and dwarves are known for their resilience.

 

3) And how exactly would you reach an archdemon when it's surrounded by thousands of darkspawn?  The point of gathering allies in DA:O wasn't to defeat the horde itself, but to provide an opening for you to kill the archdemon.

 

From what i know keep always falls (if you save city) however if you upgrade it fully damge will be reduced same for losses and keep will be rebuild and that is pretty much if you give your people hyper mega equipment ,get bombs and have excellent protected keep.

 

http://dragonage.wik...s_Keep#Defenses

 

I hope none if killed, if he will stay alive numbers of those certainly will raise to the point he won't be required.

 

Then what was the point in saying that if the Architect dies it doesn't stop what he had planned?

[BronzTrooper]

EDIT: Damn double post.  

[TheKomandorShepard]

1. Again, read what I wrote, did I ever say that he's a nice guy? All I said is that he cares about trying to end the Blights and trying to free the Darkspawn from the Old Gods, which doesn't equate the same thing? The best you can call the Architect is an anti-villain, since he's not maliciously causing problems because he can, but accidentally.

 

2. Except that he's not "blowing up the world over and over" as you keep saying, which I find puzzling? Unlike Corypheus who upon being awoken accidentally in Legacy, sought to once again break into the Fade, the Architect has never attempted to replicate that experiment (if he indeeds remembers having done so the first time) at any point in the last millennia?

 

From what we do know of his timeline, he's only really started becoming active within the last forty years, having been involved in the events of "The Calling" novel and then waiting over two to three decades before accidentally causing the rise of Urthemiel? Aside from those three acts, the latter two only happening within a few decades or so of each other, as far as we know, he's spent most of the past millennia sitting around doing nothing?

 

3. Which if we're being fair, does makes you a tad biased, since you're basically saying that Mages = Darkspawn in your viewpoint?

 

Which ignores the fact that aside from both having the potential to be highly destructive, Mages are self-aware individuals with free-will and the capacity to make a decision to act for good or bad, whereas the Darkspawn exhibit mindless, animalistic behaviour and operate on a horde mentality directed by the Archdemon, unless given self-awareness through the Architect?

 

Likewise, of our two resident mage companions who became abominations in the series, Wynne never became as destructive as Anders did because of the passive nature of the Spirit of Faith that she bonded with, whereas he was corrupted by the fact that Justice cannot stand idly by and watch? And aside from that, it's worth remember that as bad as Anders got in his pursuit of mage freedom, he nonetheless continued to work for the entire duration of his time in Kirkwall as a healer of the sick and injured, showing that he still had some selfless qualities?

 

As for the Architect having "demolished" Ferelden, that doesn't seem to be true, since despite the ravages of the Blight upon the land (which has mostly healed by Inquisition), the country itself has been said to have thrived since the ending of the Fifth Blight? It's been far more politically stable than Orlais, the Free Marches or even Nevarra, all of which seem to be on the brink of war with themselves or their neighbours?

 

4. Because screwing up and misunderstanding orders is solely the province of Darkspawn?

 

Look at Blackwall's backstory for how even a normal person can accidentally have a mission go entirely FUBAR through sheer miscommunication or following the order as given, unaware that it was not what the person wanted. Blackwall ordered his men to kill everyone in the carriage and they did. It wasn't their fault (or his) that the carriage had contained the target's wife and children as well, which wasn't the plan at all?

 

5. Gaider said he probably won't appear if you killed him... but that doesn't mean he's necessarily dead? After all, we "killed" Corypheus in Legacy?

 

6. Again, how is being motivated by one's own goals any different from anyone else in the setting?

 

Have we not seen time and again that Warden's are willing to sacrifice others to end the Blights at any cost? The fact that Clarel was, under no compulsion from Corypheus in any way, actually going to go along with the plan to raise a Demon Army to take down the Old Gods slumbering in the Deep Roads, shows that even Wardens aren't immune to this kind of thing?

 

Sera is willing to lie, murder and steal in the pursuit of helping the helpless as part of Red Jenny? Anders was willing to blow up the Chantry to send a message to the Templars that the Mages wouldn't be cowed anymore? Howe murdered his oldest friend and numerous others to try and seize power for himself?

 

To say he's the only one with any kind of self-interest and is dangerous simply because he's willing to act on it, doesn't factor in the numerous other dangerous people we've seen in the setting doing things for their own goals, both hero and villain alike?

 

7. Really, because at the moment the Awakened under his banner seem to follow him almost exclusively, as they did during the events of Awakening? He could have easily turned his army against the Wardens, who were already weakened after the assault on Vigil's Keep by the Mother's forces, but he didn't?

 

He's not to be trusted for sure, and for an immortal being, ten years is a flash in the pan, but he's thus-far kept up his end of the bargain and aided the Wardens in their goal of ending the Blights once and for all. As long as they share that common goal, they're tenative allies for the moment?

 

Will he eventually betray them after they have no longer any need of each other... perhaps? But damning someone for something they might do, sometime in the future seems like an excercise in madness to me?

 

That's in the same kind of extremism as wanting to Tranquil all Mages because some of them might prove to be dangerous in the future, or killing any Qunari you see because their race might invade Thedas sometime in the future? Or lock all women in Thedas away in secure locations, because some of them might be caught by darkspawn and turned into broodmothers?

 

Did the Warden know that s/he might accidentally spark an international Mage-Templar war because s/he recruited a sarcastic, cat-loving mage into the Wardens and introduced him to a Spirit of Justice? Of course not, but you don't blame the Warden for having known that at the time, right?

 

Or how Varric didn't know that getting Hawke involved in Bartrand's expedition would lead to his brother and Meredith going nuts because of the Red Lyrium they found, Hawke's sibling either dying or becoming a Warden, as well as causing the rise of the Red Templars in Inquisition?

 

Likewise, Malcolm Hawke didn't know that his taking the job for the Wardens under duress, would lead his child eventually being manipulated to head to Corypheus' prison and forced to release him in order to escape? Then despite his child killing Corypheus, he would end up surviving anyway by jumping into a nearby Grey Warden? Then would end up meeting up with an Ancient Elven God, steal his Orb and attempt to break back into the Fade?

 

Unless you're a Rivaini Seer or have a crystal ball that allows foreknowledge for how the series will play out in future games, no-one can know how the events will transpire and whether or not any decision might turn out for good or bad in the end?

 

1.But you did perhaps not nice guy but started paint him in good light and not as bad guy because apparently he cared about consequences of his actions when he obviously didn't except he tried kill almost all human population (didn't i say that before like 500 times and you ignored that still trying paint him in good light)

 

2.No?

Cause blights and create darkspawn in power hunger

Try to kill most of human kind to realize his own goals

Start 5 blight

 

The world need to be destroyed only once he is good at doing or trying to do that.

 

3.Yes in terms of destruction and danger they are equal to the darkspawn and in fact as i said they created darkspawn.

 

Also it isn't matter of decision it it matter of potential danger it doesn't matter what motivation mage had when he was blowing up world wheter he wanted help people or wanted "powah!" what matters that he did blow up world.You may be nice guy may and still cause world threatening disaster being nice guy don't make you less unstable as mage neither immune to demons.

 

Both mages and darkspawn are dangerous and destructive by nature for different reasons thus they land in same territory.

 

Also wynne went on ramapage in asunder so well...  

 

Rly pretty much we are informed that destruction was huge despite blight was short and only thanks HoF what as i said don't make what architect did any better.We also know it will take decades at best to ferelden lands recover from blight if ever from letters etc we know that fereleden have problems to that day not mention about victims and devastation caused by blight. 

 

4.Yes because negotiate and kill everyone on sight are commonly misplaced orders and show goodness of heart and the peaceful nature and yes it was blackwall fault even he knows it not to mention situation was completely different as here there was no wrong infomation about target that was in blackwall case pretty much darkspawn straigt out started slaughter miltiary and civilians then when warden commander shows up kill his companions and then we negotiate sorry but if that isn't insane and aggressive creature i don't what it is.Not mention we dicuss darkspawn vs human kind (as well every other) not human vs human that will be always in case.

 

5.We didn't kill corypheus well we didn't but game made it obvious he is alive  aslo to quote what he said exactly "Whether he pops up, well, possibly. I think so… I mean, obviously not if you killed him." he pretty much directly says he won't show up if you killed.

 

6.By that their goals don't cause destruction of the world?

 

7.And then he would have to face ferelden and pretty much rest of grey warden order when practically unprepared and not ready to launch full invasion sounds like good plan.

 

8.They don't share common goal because wardens goal is to save human kind from darkspawn and this is why they want stop blight and darkspawn while architect was fully fine with destroying almost all of human to get what he wanted not mention many times endangered human kind.

 

9.Not might do but did more than once and pretty much have potential to only backfire and end in same way as before.Also that is why law exist and it is respectively made onto things according to how something dangerous thus massive difference between laws that concern knife , guns or nuclear weapon with each being treated respectively to its danger. 

 

10.It doesn't matter in fact because whether recruited anders or just send him with templars result is the same so the warden actions weren't infulence here thus the warden wasn't responsible niether in fact he created anders by experimenting nor being single infulence that caused that (and s/he wasn't).

 

11.And yes hawke was to blame at least to some extent same for varric (and pretty much he knows that) but still more blame goes for bartrand and meredith still it was chain of events not result of mad experiment one is blame hawke for not saving his mother another quentin that directly caused that and being single influence.
. 
12.Malcolm in fact did pretty good much job as he delayed corypheus awakening and corypheus would get away with hawke or without him it was matter of time and it wasn't much. 

 

Also one of thing predict that i will inadvertently cause car accident is one thing and yes in fact it is impossible (despite that are efforts to prevent it for example you can drink and drive a car) and predict that nuclear weapon is dangerous is completely you don't need crystal ball to know that mages are destructive and insanely dangerous same for darkspawn same as you don't crystal ball that kicking a bear or taking it as pet is bad idea.

 

 

 

Pretty much my point.  Gaider never says how exactly they are the same type of character.  For all we know, he probably meant that they're the same type of character because they're both sentient darkspawn.

 

 

Yet again, you're missing my point.  The Architect's experiments weren't for the express purpose of killing every non-darkspawn, not to mention that we only saw a few out of all of the awoken darkspawn actually speak.  The Mother and her lieutenants were insane and hostile, but they only represented a portion of the awoken darkspawn, not the whole.  The Architect's lieutenants were more sane and less hostile (look at the messenger at Amaranthine).  Yes, the lieutenant that suggested killing Velanna's clan was on the ruthless side, but their goal was to get the attention of the Wardens, not just kill whoever they could.  An insane darkspawn would've just started slaughtering everyone that entered the area.

 

Plus, I wasn't saying anything about the morality of reproduction.  I was simply using Loghain's actions as an example of how removing one person could stop an series of different events from occuring.

 

 

I never said that he did, only that his abandoning of Cailan at Ostagar resulted in a series of events that nearly destroyed Ferelden, not to mention potentially the world.  Also, Cailan had approached Orlais for support (which could've turned the tide at Ostagar), but Loghain wouldn't have it due to his hatred of Orlais.  Hell, his hatred of Orlais was so great that he was utterly convinced that they would be making a move to invade and waved off the Blight as an unusually large darkspawn raid.

 

Without Hawke to stop the Qunari invasion of Kirkwall, there wouldn't be a reason for Anders to destroy the Chantry since the Templars would've been all but wiped out in Kirkwall, along with many of the mages.  This would prevent tensions rising between the Templars and mages, thus resulting in the Mage/Templar War not kicking off at all, since the events at Kirkwall resulted in stricter restrictions in Circles across Thedas which prompted Fiona to push for a vote on whether or not the Circles should break away from the Chantry.

 

As for Cory, the fact that the Wardens knew that the seals were weakening and actually working to maintain their strength means that they would've eventually had another mage come in to reinforce the seals.  If they didn't, then it would still be decades before the seals wore off to the point that Cory could release himself.  Hawke just sped up the process by breaking the seals.

 

 

I'm not even sure what you're trying to say here.

 

 

The Blight did 5 times more damage than the darkspawn civil war.  That hardly qualifies as a national catastrophe.

 

 

You talk about me putting words in your mouth (which I didn't do), yet you're doing just that.  I never said anything about the Architect or Cory looking like better people because of who killed them.  In fact, I didn't even compare the 2 in the section of my post you're referring to here.  Also, you talk about the Architect like he directly caused the First Blight (which was the worst of the Blights) when there is nothing supporting that.

 

Plus, the Architect didn't deliberately trigger the Fifth Blight.  As with any science experiment, there are bound to be unintended results.

 

 

Since you believe it is so easy to find it, why not provide a link?  You were quick enough to link the article with Gaider talking about the Architect.

 

 

1) The exact wording is that they "possess considerable strength and constitution", which does not mean they are incredibly strong and resilient.  Maybe slightly more-so than the average soldier, but not to the point of being able to easily overpower them.

 

2) As I said, they come from dwarven broodmothers, and dwarves are known for their resilience.

 

3) And how exactly would you reach an archdemon when it's surrounded by thousands of darkspawn?  The point of gathering allies in DA:O wasn't to defeat the horde itself, but to provide an opening for you to kill the archdemon.

 

 

http://dragonage.wik...s_Keep#Defenses

 

 

Then what was the point in saying that if the Architect dies it doesn't stop what he had planned?

 

1.   Omg you sir won award for masterful avoding whole point of my previous comment.

What did i said?

To what DG replied “Yeah,” Gaider agreed, “he is the same type of character as Corypheus, absolutely. 

that is answer what was question?

"I asked David Gaider if the Architect of Dragon Age: Awakening is also a former magister, and if he’ll play a part in upcoming events in the DA universe."

On what DG agreed author didn't asked if he is the same because both like pancakes or look in similar fashion only if architect was magister.Unless author didn't asked fort that and he claims he did there is no room for interpretation if question was clear...

 

2.Omg pls tell me you are trolling so my opinion about human kind stay unchanged... also i love how you accuse that i missed your point when you complety missed mine. When i said he was creating awakened darkspawn to destroy non-darkspawn?I have never said that you obviously lack basic infomations about architect if you mix things that i have said that he was doing in dragon age the calling and da awakening. And you contradicted that they were not insane and less violent despte pretty much said they started slaughter to get wardens so they can experiment right seems like sane thing to do as well show how agressive they are for examle like icident in keep.

 

3.And i didn't say you did i said that architect caused blight so comparing loghain acting upo to architect is yet another poor comparison Calian may have support of orlais but in first place it wasn't there neither it was in time of battle pretty much many claim that loghain saved ferelden forces being destroyed because of foolish king that refused use strategy not to mention loghain was in fact right about orlais.

 

I already explained chains of events to person above i don't want rly play into oh "but kife can kill to like nuclear bomb why it isn't prohibited?" .

 

Sorry but doesn't work when you use argument that "fifth blight was less costly than any other blight" and they you backtrack and you say that you didn't try look architect better by saying fifth blight was lest costly cus it was saved by hero of ferelden little consistency here pls.

I love how you claimed that you are being reasonable but then you dismiss whole article as "nothing" same for book oh god pretty sure you are architect apologist.

 

Yes his action did and it did directly it doesn't matter if he didn't try to do that he did."Oh look judge judy  i didn't try kill that children i was just wanted have fun driving my extra car 200 km / h im innocent that wasn't what i tried to do!"

 

Here my lord after years and years of searching this thing that was harder to find than the holy grail i found it oh and my lord you need to clik it be careful it is dangerous and difficult task!

 

ekhm

 

doesn't matter where they come from they can come from even from emperor palpatine labolatory and of course you jumped from what was important and infomation that i provided (at this point im not suprised and im trolling here... )

 

griffons? or as in fifth blight having army that fights with darkspawn when you kill archdemon? duh

 

That don't show they have won only that the warden found way to save keep from being destroyed in even picture of that outcome shows that keep was higly damaged and pretty much what i have said epilogue ,codex , map and comments point they lost but in full ukeep damage was reducted as we can see in dragon age keep.

 

Ehh god if he wasn't killed in dao when he began his little project eventually darkspawn won't need him because he will have already organized society and horde so even if you will kill him there will be countless darkspawn to replace him i literally explained that to you in next sentence.

 

God... my sarcasm overheated

[Sifr]

1.But you did perhaps not nice guy but started paint him in good light and not as bad guy because apparently he cared about consequences of his actions when he obviously didn't except he tried kill almost all human population (didn't i say that before like 500 times and you ignored that still trying paint him in good light)

 

How is it painted him a good light when I've repeatedly said that he's not entirely trustworthy and that working with him is a major risk, but one that I think is probably worth it if handled properly? I've never said he's a "good guy", nor that he cared about the consequences of his actions, only that he cares to stop the Blights? As we've seen repeatedly, every time his plan backfires and the consequences become too negative, he stops and considers a new avenue instead?

 

2. No? Cause blights and create darkspawn in power hunger. Try to kill most of human kind to realize his own goals. Start 5 blight

 

Err, do you really think that the Magisters intended to become corrupted monstrosities and the first Darkspawn? Their goals was to attempt to punch a hole into the Fade and enter the Golden City? No-one saw the Darkspawn coming, especially them.

 

He didn't plan to kill most of humankind, his plan was to Taint everyone to allow them to co-exist with the Darkspawn. While this might have lead to some perishing as a result, exactly whether or not the Taint kills has always been somewhat vague, since most of those we've seen become Tainted end up either being mercy-killed before they succumb to the Taint or become ghouls instead?

 

The codex says that some do die due to being infected, but we've never seen anyone yet perish as a result of the Taint in-game? Most people we talk to admit that only the Grey Wardens really understand it and them telling people that it's always fatal to convince them to mercy-kill victims, rather than have them turn into ghouls, would be a white lie that'd be understandable given the circumstances?

 

After all, Duncan obfuscated the truth about Tamlen's fate when talking to Mahariel, never actually saying that he was dead but leaving it vague enough that everyone assumed he was and that his body had been taken away by the 'spawn?

 

3.Yes in terms of destruction and danger they are equal to the darkspawn and in fact as i said they created darkspawn.

 

As I said before, no-one expected the Darkspawn to be the result of attempting to enter the Fade. And it's extremely unfair to blame all mages on account of something that a cabal of only seven mages did over a thousand years ago?

 

4.Yes because negotiate and kill everyone on sight are commonly misplaced orders and show goodness of heart and the peaceful nature and yes it was blackwall fault even he knows it not to mention situation was completely different as here there was no wrong infomation about target that was in blackwall case pretty much darkspawn straigt out started slaughter miltiary and civilians then when warden commander shows up kill his companions and then we negotiate sorry but if that isn't insane and aggressive creature i don't what it is.Not mention we dicuss darkspawn vs human kind (as well every other) not human vs human that will be always in case.

 

Who said anything about a "goodness of heart" and "peaceful nature" leading to the misunderstandings that took place? All I said was that they both followed their orders literally and didn't realise that this wasn't the intention of their leader?

 

5.We didn't kill corypheus well we didn't but game made it obvious he is alive. aslo to quote what he said exactly "Whether he pops up, well, possibly. I think so… I mean, obviously not if you killed him." he pretty much directly says he won't show up if you killed.

 

I'm not saying that the Architect isn't dead, just that after seeing Corypheus' bag of tricks in both DA2 and DAI, it does leave it open-ended whether or not he could have survived?

 

After all, there were quite a few Wardens abducted from Vigil's Keep left unaccounted for that we never find out whether they survived his experiments or not, as well as Darkspawn present in the Mother's lair he could have potentially jumped into, if he shares that ability with Cory?

 

It's not the first time they've retconned someone surviving when they've been declared killed? Flemeth had her soul jars, Leliana had the power of plot and Anders faked his own death and escaped to Kirkwall?

 

6. By that their goals don't cause destruction of the world?

 

Except the times that they nearly have, such as the aforementioned Soldier's Peak catastrophe that was only kept in check because Avernus held the demons back for a few hundred years, as well as the Dark Future that showed that the Warden's actions at Adamant would have lead to a demon army ravaging Orlais.

 

7. And then he would have to face ferelden and pretty much rest of grey warden order when practically unprepared and not ready to launch full invasion sounds like good plan.

 

Which shows that he's not completely insane, wouldn't you say? If he was cuckoo for cocoa-puffs like you've been saying thus far, he'd have launched an invasion regardless of whether or not he had the manpower? I could see Corypheus doing that because he is a megalomaniac with an major ego, but that's not the Architect's style, who seems to favour planning before deciding upon acting (regardless of whether the plan is good or not?)

 

They don't share common goal because wardens goal is to save human kind from darkspawn and this is why they want stop blight and darkspawn while architect was fully fine with destroying almost all of human to get what he wanted not mention many times endangered human kind.

 

Except that the Wardens have stated that their goal is to end the Blights, with the Darkspawn as a secondary concern. Once the Blights are done with, hopefully with the death of the last two Archdemons, they could turn their attention to the problem of the Darkspawn?

 

As repeatedly stated in Origins, the reason the Wardens don't just go into the Deep Roads to try to hunt them all is because there are simply too many Darkspawn to deal with and the Dwarves have been trying to eradicate them with no success for over a millennia? During the interregnum between Blights, their only concern about the Darkspawn is keeping their numbers down, waiting for signs of a Blight and preparing to stop an Archdemon if they should arise.

 

And once again, the Architect nixed that plan when he realised that there were better solutions available? While you are right that he was prepared to do it, he ultimately was convinced to find another solution that was better when it presented itself? He's since made no attempt to revive that plan and enact it, instead chosing to focus on Awakening the Darkspawn and working with the Wardens?

[TheKomandorShepard]

How is it painted him a good light when I've repeatedly said that he's not entirely trustworthy and that working with him is a major risk, but one that I think is probably worth it if handled properly? I've never said he's a "good guy", nor that he cared about the consequences of his actions, only that he cares to stop the Blights? As we've seen repeatedly, every time his plan backfires and the consequences become too negative, he stops and considers a new avenue instead?

 

 

Err, do you really think that the Magisters intended to become corrupted monstrosities and the first Darkspawn? Their goals was to attempt to punch a hole into the Fade and enter the Golden City? No-one saw the Darkspawn coming, especially them.

 

He didn't plan to kill most of humankind, his plan was to Taint everyone to allow them to co-exist with the Darkspawn. While this might have lead to some perishing as a result, exactly whether or not the Taint kills has always been somewhat vague, since most of those we've seen become Tainted end up either being mercy-killed before they succumb to the Taint or become ghouls instead?

 

The codex says that some do die due to being infected, but we've never seen anyone yet perish as a result of the Taint in-game? Most people we talk to admit that only the Grey Wardens really understand it and them telling people that it's always fatal to convince them to mercy-kill victims, rather than have them turn into ghouls, would be a white lie that'd be understandable given the circumstances?

 

After all, Duncan obfuscated the truth about Tamlen's fate when talking to Mahariel, never actually saying that he was dead but leaving it vague enough that everyone assumed he was and that his body had been taken away by the 'spawn?

 

 

As I said before, no-one expected the Darkspawn to be the result of attempting to enter the Fade. And it's extremely unfair to blame all mages on account of something that a cabal of only seven mages did over a thousand years ago?

 

 

Who said anything about a "goodness of heart" and "peaceful nature" leading to the misunderstandings that took place? All I said was that they both followed their orders literally and didn't realise that this wasn't the intention of their leader?

 

 

I'm not saying that the Architect isn't dead, just that after seeing Corypheus' bag of tricks in both DA2 and DAI, it does leave it open-ended whether or not he could have survived?

 

After all, there were quite a few Wardens abducted from Vigil's Keep left unaccounted for that we never find out whether they survived his experiments or not, as well as Darkspawn present in the Mother's lair he could have potentially jumped into, if he shares that ability with Cory?

 

It's not the first time they've retconned someone surviving when they've been declared killed? Flemeth had her soul jars, Leliana had the power of plot and Anders faked his own death and escaped to Kirkwall?

 

 

Except the times that they nearly have, such as the aforementioned Soldier's Peak catastrophe that was only kept in check because Avernus held the demons back for a few hundred years, as well as the Dark Future that showed that the Warden's actions at Adamant would have lead to a demon army ravaging Orlais.

 

 

Which shows that he's not completely insane, wouldn't you say? If he was cuckoo for cocoa-puffs like you've been saying thus far, he'd have launched an invasion regardless of whether or not he had the manpower? I could see Corypheus doing that because he is a megalomaniac with an major ego, but that's not the Architect's style, who seems to favour planning before deciding upon acting (regardless of whether the plan is good or not?)

 

 

Except that the Wardens have stated that their goal is to end the Blights, with the Darkspawn as a secondary concern. Once the Blights are done with, hopefully with the death of the last two Archdemons, they could turn their attention to the problem of the Darkspawn?

 

As repeatedly stated in Origins, the reason the Wardens don't just go into the Deep Roads to try to hunt them all is because there are simply too many Darkspawn to deal with and the Dwarves have been trying to eradicate them with no success for over a millennia? During the interregnum between Blights, their only concern about the Darkspawn is keeping their numbers down, waiting for signs of a Blight and preparing to stop an Archdemon if they should arise.

 

And once again, the Architect nixed that plan when he realised that there were better solutions available? While you are right that he was prepared to do it, he ultimately was convinced to find another solution that was better when it presented itself? He's since made no attempt to revive that plan and enact it, instead chosing to focus on Awakening the Darkspawn and working with the Wardens?

 

"he'd have gone ahead with his plan anyway and not cared about the results"

 

"I've never said he's a "good guy", nor that he cared about the consequences of his actions"

 

 

And no he doesn't stops when consequences become too negative unless you mean for himself.

 

2.Doesn't matter they were power hungry and all that matters is that they caused greatest disaster in thedas history .

 

"He didn't plan to kill most of humankind, his plan was to Taint everyone to allow them to co-exist with the Darkspawn"

    What would kill most of humankind way to go after you said didnt  wanted paint him in good light

"Sorry mine client didn't rape her he was just having fun " and no ghouls aren't human anymore...

 

"As I said before, no-one expected the Darkspawn to be the result of attempting to enter the Fade. And it's extremely unfair to blame all mages on account of something that a cabal of only seven mages did over a thousand years ago?"

 

What have absolutely no point to what i said and don't change fact i said about extremely agressive nature of awakened as well those in architect side plus pretty much insanity.

 

And yet again we go into "but knife can kill to so why nuclear bombs are ilegal" this isn't about blaming this is about seeing what mages can do and often do.You don't have nuclear bombs secured because it exploded only because it can explode...

 

In first place as i said avernus actions were barely noticeable but still disastrous nowhere near architect , second in adamant corypheus well sure wardens were dumb as hell and fanatics i just want to point something once again mages so in fact your examples don't help you only me prove that both mages and darkspawn and dangerous and destructive for thedas.

 

Insane don't equal stupid i think people mix that two up...  

 

Flemeth was never declared dead in fact even in dao when you kill her morrigan makes it clear that all you did is that you bought her some time for her to prepare to fight her mother.Leliana was never declared dead by devs nor they said they won't bring her back when of course they can bring him back as far it doesn't seem they plan it if killed. 

 

 

You don't get it... difference is why as i explained it and you of course ingored it grey wardens want to stop blight and darkspawn because they threat to human kind not stop is for sake of stoping it architect proved he is willing kill most of human kind to get what he wants so no grey wardens don't share goal with architect because grey warden goal is overall protecting human kind from darkspawn and destroying it and architect more than once jeopardized that goal and in fact he is threat for human kind.

 

It doesn't matter as long there is no archdemon darkspawn are unable to unite and launch invasion and by that way much less threatening than if they were organized.
 

He changed his plan because he got his ass kicked and it backfired as always in his case and better solution for who him.  
 

[Sifr]

"he'd have gone ahead with his plan anyway and not cared about the results"

 

"I've never said he's a "good guy", nor that he cared about the consequences of his actions"

 

 

And no he doesn't stops when consequences become too negative unless you mean for himself.

 

Fine, I'll concede that I contradicted myself a tad there and perhaps "care" is indeed a strong word for how to describe his motivations, but my meaning was that his concern was about stopping the Blights. His initial plan in "The Calling" however would have had the result of putting more people under the thrall of the Archdemon and thus the eventual realisation that it was a bad idea when he was stopped and this was pointed out to him?

 

2.Doesn't matter they were power hungry and all that matters is that they caused greatest disaster in thedas history.

 

There was no way of knowing that their actions in the Fade would have had any repurcussions within the real world, let alone unleash the Darkspawn?

 

"He didn't plan to kill most of humankind, his plan was to Taint everyone to allow them to co-exist with the Darkspawn"

    What would kill most of humankind way to go after you said didnt  wanted paint him in good light

"Sorry mine client didn't rape her he was just having fun " and no ghouls aren't human anymore...

 

I said that we have no way of knowing if his plan actually have killed anyone, since it's never been concretely established whether ghoulification actually is lethal all the time, since everyone we've ever seen infected always turns? And yes, ghouls can retain some trace of their humanity after ghoulification, we saw that with Tamlen in Origins, Awakened Ghouls such as Seranni and Utha, as well as Larius in DA2?

 

I don't know why you keep thinking that I'm trying to paint his actions in a good light? I just said there was a twisted logic to it that made sense, even if it was the completely wrong conclusion of him to make?

 

"As I said before, no-one expected the Darkspawn to be the result of attempting to enter the Fade. And it's extremely unfair to blame all mages on account of something that a cabal of only seven mages did over a thousand years ago?"

 

What have absolutely no point to what i said and don't change fact i said about extremely agressive nature of awakened as well those in architect side plus pretty much insanity.

 

It has everything to do with what you said, because you seem convinced that all mages are always chaotic evil, insane abominations like the Darkspawn, when we've seen that this definitely isn't the case?

 

Likewise, the Architect's forces for the most part were entirely rational and in the case of those like the Messenger, even might have fought alongside the Warden's party to defend Amaranthine? They aren't all monsters who are insane and blood-thirsty?

 

In first place as i said avernus actions were barely noticeable but still disastrous nowhere near architect , second in adamant corypheus well sure wardens were dumb as hell and fanatics i just want to point something once again mages so in fact your examples don't help you only me prove that both mages and darkspawn and dangerous and destructive for thedas.

 

Insane don't equal stupid i think people mix that two up...

 

His actions weren't noticeably because he kept the Veil being torn at bay for two hundred years and trapped the demons in the Vigil, whereas if he hadn't, they'd have probably ended up swarming most of Northern Ferelden?

 

Likewise, it's hardly fair to lay the blame on the Mages because they were more susceptible to Corypheus' influence according to Legacy. That is why the Mages were the ones who were most coerced to agree to the ritual, whereas the non-Mages were the ones who opposed it?

 

But since you hate mages, I doubt this will convince you?

 

Flemeth was never declared dead in fact even in dao when you kill her morrigan makes it clear that all you did is that you bought her some time for her to prepare to fight her mother.Leliana was never declared dead by devs nor they said they won't bring her back when of course they can bring him back as far it doesn't seem they plan it if killed.

 

Except that she did physically die, hence the need to resurrect herself in a new body in DA2. Leliana likewise believes she died in Inquisition, regardless of whether or not she was actually just wounded but not mortally so (which is my suspicion). The point remains that characters have died and come back, through retcon or various means?

 

You don't get it... difference is why as i explained it and you of course ingored it grey wardens want to stop blight and darkspawn because they threat to human kind not stop is for sake of stoping it architect proved he is willing kill most of human kind to get what he wants so no grey wardens don't share goal with architect because grey warden goal is overall protecting human kind from darkspawn and destroying it and architect more than once jeopardized that goal and in fact he is threat for human kind.

 

No, the Grey Wardens want to stop the Blights for all races (not just humanity) and believe the best way to do so is to slay the Archdemons. The hope is that once the Archdemons are dead, they can be able to deal with the Darkspawn properly, since they'll not be able to be rallied into a horde anymore, which is the real problem.

 

They do want to defeat the Darkspawn, but it's not the main priority as much as stopping the Archdemons and preventing future Blights. What you're saying is technically true, but there's a very important difference and order of things they need to do before they can focus entirely on the Darkspawn.

 

The Architect was willing to infect most of Thedas with the Taint to even the scales, believing that this would end the Blights, since if everyone is united under the Taint, there there would be no reason for any conflict?

 

It doesn't matter as long there is no archdemon darkspawn are unable to unite and launch invasion and by that way much less threatening than if they were organized.

 

Or so they think... I'd suggest you travel around with Solas and Blackwall in your party, as they have this exact conversation and Solas raises the very real possibility that the Wardens killing the last two Archdemons won't stop future Blights at all?

[TheKomandorShepard]

Fine, I'll concede that I contradicted myself a tad there and perhaps "care" is indeed a strong word for how to describe his motivations, but my meaning was that his concern was about stopping the Blights. His initial plan in "The Calling" however would have had the result of putting more people under the thrall of the Archdemon and thus the eventual realisation that it was a bad idea when he was stopped and this was pointed out to him?

 

 

There was no way of knowing that their actions in the Fade would have had any repurcussions within the real world, let alone unleash the Darkspawn?

 

 

I said that we have no way of knowing if his plan actually have killed anyone, since it's never been concretely established whether ghoulification actually is lethal all the time, since everyone we've ever seen infected always turns? And yes, ghouls can retain some trace of their humanity after ghoulification, we saw that with Tamlen in Origins, Awakened Ghouls such as Seranni and Utha, as well as Larius in DA2?

 

I don't know why you keep thinking that I'm trying to paint his actions in a good light? I just said there was a twisted logic to it that made sense, even if it was the completely wrong conclusion of him to make?

 

 

It has everything to do with what you said, because you seem convinced that all mages are always chaotic evil, insane abominations like the Darkspawn, when we've seen that this definitely isn't the case?

 

Likewise, the Architect's forces for the most part were entirely rational and in the case of those like the Messenger, even might have fought alongside the Warden's party to defend Amaranthine? They aren't all monsters who are insane and blood-thirsty?

 

 

His actions weren't noticeably because he kept the Veil being torn at bay for two hundred years and trapped the demons in the Vigil, whereas if he hadn't, they'd have probably ended up swarming most of Northern Ferelden?

 

Likewise, it's hardly fair to lay the blame on the Mages because they were more susceptible to Corypheus' influence according to Legacy. That is why the Mages were the ones who were most coerced to agree to the ritual, whereas the non-Mages were the ones who opposed it?

 

But since you hate mages, I doubt this will convince you?

 

 

Except that she did physically die, hence the need to resurrect herself in a new body in DA2. Leliana likewise believes she died in Inquisition, regardless of whether or not she was actually just wounded but not mortally so (which is my suspicion). The point remains that characters have died and come back, through retcon or various means?

 

 

No, the Grey Wardens want to stop the Blights for all races (not just humanity) and believe the best way to do so is to slay the Archdemons. The hope is that once the Archdemons are dead, they can be able to deal with the Darkspawn properly, since they'll not be able to be rallied into a horde anymore, which is the real problem.

 

They do want to defeat the Darkspawn, but it's not the main priority as much as stopping the Archdemons and preventing future Blights. What you're saying is technically true, but there's a very important difference and order of things they need to do before they can focus entirely on the Darkspawn.

 

The Architect was willing to infect most of Thedas with the Taint to even the scales, believing that this would end the Blights, since if everyone is united under the Taint, there there would be no reason for any conflict?

 

 

Or so they think... I'd suggest you travel around with Solas and Blackwall in your party, as they have this exact conversation and Solas raises the very real possibility that the Wardens killing the last two Archdemons won't stop future Blights at all?

 

 

1.What i said don't matter because reason why he want to stop blight isn't good of human kind and as i said he already was perfectly fine with destroying it what pretty makes one of the points why architect and his plans are horrible for thedas.

 

2.They knew it was bad idea and they shouldn't screw it they ignored that in power hunger in fact they belived that it is the seat of the god and wanted his power what in fact in itself is retarded idea if you belive in that and they deliberately pissed off god remove god part and we have madmans screwing with the fade (what pretty much is always bad idea) and something they don't understand and is and often disastrous.

And yet again you ignored main core of this point that what matters is that they almost lead to world destruction and no in court it won't count if you say that you didn't want to kill that little girl you only wanted have fun driving 200 km/h. 

 

3.Rly rly i will just skip that considering that he himself knew that will cause insane amount of death not rly need further discussion on that.

 

4.Because you are trying to do that in fact i pointed that in last my post why.

 

5.

nah im to tired of that i responded on that 500 times and pointed examples.

 

5.People have serious issues on this forum as in conversation with me about mages always claim that i claim mages are chaotic evil or something despite i made it clear i don't even involve morality here... this isn't about being chaotic evil , neutral evil or whatever it is about being dangerous and unstable and before you into typical discussion and insane logic that "everyone is dangerous so why you didn't lock everyone else"  i will say that is about scale of danger and my now claimed example about nuclear bomb and knife.

 

6.Yes you pretty much answered yourself of course as i said not that i protect avernus as i said i see mages as bad as darkspawn (as in fact darkspawn was their creation).

 

And no this is not true not even close even cole pointed along with erimond that wardens weren't under any influence (not magical or unatural) all corypheus did is made them think every warden is close to calling and they made their decision on their own.

 

I don't hate mages (but at this point i have to admit im tired of their crap) they are just dangerous and unstable creating threats for society or even world over and over so it is rather i don't want bomb in my house.

 

7.Flemeth died and no yes warden killed her but even then morrigan made it clear that flemeth will return and makes it clear again that she did in witch hunt. Leliana belives in many things but as i said neither devs said she died nor that they won't bring her back of course it bs that they brought her back but still not same as with architect where they said they won't bring him back if killed.

 

8.By humanity i mean all races but in fact mostly human kind as it is dominant and architect is threat for them as well darkspawn.Well if darkspawn will be able to organize after archdemon death it will pretty much end on architect plan scenario what is bad but don't change situation for any worse that would siding with architect at best archdemons are slained no more blights and unorganized.

 

As i said ending blight don't equal reasons why grey wardens want end blight and kill darkspawn i explained that already 10 times grey warden exist to protect human kind (or all races if you want be specific) from darkspawn architect already proved that he is dangerous to human kind and have no qualms with killing most of human kind what pretty much clasheh with grey warden mission in first place.

 

9.And here i wonder because solas have knowledge but as far he didn't reveal reason for his hatred toward grey wardens so as long i don't have more infomation from him about it i can't rly dicuss it.

[Sifr]

Welp, I'm bowing out of this, it's hard to have a decent discussion when we keep having circular arguments, especially ones that boil to your insisting that "mages = always chaotic evil", as well as the claim that "mage are like darkspawn", despite all evidence to the contrary?

 

To answer the topic that we've somewhat veered from, I do think that Legion is like the Architect in the sense that they both wish for freedom for their people from some other force, don't quite understand humanity and wish to find some way to co-exist with the rest of the galaxy/Thedas, but face prejudice from people due to what they are?

 

Hopefully the Awakened Darkspawn won't end up derailed like the Geth were in ME3, when their entire motivations were completely at odds with their established characterisation in ME2, which made them decide to go against their self-determination philosophy and accept Reaper upgrades...?

[TheKomandorShepard]

Welp, I'm bowing out of this, it's hard to have a decent discussion when we keep having circular arguments, especially ones that boil to your insisting that "mages = always chaotic evil", as well as the claim that "mage are like darkspawn", despite all evidence to the contrary?

 

To answer the topic that we've somewhat veered from, I do think that Legion is like the Architect in the sense that they both wish for freedom for their people from some other force, don't quite understand humanity and wish to find some way to co-exist with the rest of the galaxy/Thedas, but face prejudice from people due to what they are?

 

Hopefully the Awakened Darkspawn won't end up derailed like the Geth were in ME3, when their entire motivations were completely at odds with their established characterisation in ME2, which made them decide to go against their self-determination philosophy and accept Reaper upgrades...?

It is good thing that you have read what i have said 

 

"especially ones that boil to your insisting that "mages = always chaotic evil""

 

And my "People have serious issues on this forum as in conversation with me about mages always claim that i claim mages are chaotic evil or something despite i made it clear i don't even involve morality here" and pretty much rest of this argument