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[Bad King]

Is it ever mentioned why Ferelden offers the rebelling mages sanctuary? I don't remember either DA2 or DA:I presenting us with the reasons for this policy. Seems risky to me for a small nation still recovering from a Blight and civil war to help the rebel mages and provoke the ire of one of Thedas' most powerful military factions.

 

Maybe it's partly due to sympathy amongst the Ferelden nobles for anti-establishment rebels (having themselves struggled against the Chantry backed Orlesian Empire in their rebellion), but there have to be other, more practical reasons for the alliance as Anora is portrayed as a very practical and shrewd ruler rather than someone likely to make policies for emotional reasons.

[AlexiaRevan]

Pleaaaaaaase....

 

Anora scheming ? 

 

Ya forget that the rebel Mages are for one Peoples , peoples with families and in their own country . They aren't some Tevinter Mages seeking refuge without ID . 

[Bad King]

Pleaaaaaaase....

 

Anora scheming ? 

 

Ya forget that the rebel Mages are for one Peoples , peoples with families and in their own country . They aren't some Tevinter Mages seeking refuge without ID . 

 

They offer sanctuary for mages across Thedas, not only Fereldan ones. It's understandable that some members of the Ferelden nobility might have considerable sympathy for the rebels, but it's nevertheless a very dangerous move when Ferelden is still recovering from war and already threatened by the Orlesians should the civil war should it be won by Gaspard. I would have thought that Ferelden would do all it could to avoid conflict with the templars, even if that meant turning rebel mages away.

[Wulfram]

Well, the mages are themselves a powerful military faction. Particularly if they were allied to Fereldan's conventional forces.

[Cypher0020]

Offer sanctuary to all mages in Thedas?

 

That's just asking for trouble 

[LightningPoodle]

Because they aren't complete [Edited] and realise that these "mages" are people who need help.

Modifié par BioWareMod02, 13 février 2015 - 04:05 .
Profanity

[AlexiaRevan]

They offer sanctuary for mages across Thedas, not only Fereldan ones. It's understandable that some members of the Ferelden nobility might have considerable sympathy for the rebels, but it's nevertheless a very dangerous move when Ferelden is still recovering from war and already threatened by the Orlesians should the civil war should it be won by Gaspard. I would have thought that Ferelden would do all it could to avoid conflict with the templars, even if that meant turning rebel mages away.

But the Templar went Bonker , the chantry is screaming witch Hunt....there is no order . They cant fear zealot going on a killing spree.....

[TheKomandorShepard]

To be honest i can see that with alistair as king but not with anora i don't see why she would risk for nothing.

 

As

1.those were mages and pretty much did a lot damage to ferelden

2.It pissed off ferelden people and nobility.

3.It pissed off templars

 

And in the end not only she gained nothing from that but also pretty much lost a lot. Seems like she caught idiot ball.

[Bad King]

Because they aren't complete dicks and realise that these "mages" are people who need help.

 

While I do sympathise with the rebel mages, I don't think it would necessarily be a bad move to refuse them sanctuary in Redcliffe. If the Ferelden crown had sympathy for the mages, they could have aided them quietly and indirectly (such as discreetly moving supplies into their camps). But declaring Redcliffe as a place of sanctuary for all mages just seems akin to painting a giant target over Ferelden, unless there is some sort of political motive that we don't know about.

[MisterJB]

Because they aren't complete dicks and realise that these "mages" are people who need help.

Large refugee populations tend to cause tensions with the native population of wherever they're squatting. And that is without the refugees having the ability boil other people's blood in their veins.

Beyond that, kings and queens do not offer help unless there is some economical interest behind it. Hence, what was the interest that lead the Ferelden monarchy to aid the mages?

Perhaps they felt Ferelden would stand a greater chance of defending itself if it brought all of the mages of Orlais under its control.

 

[Bad King]

Perhaps they felt Ferelden would stand a greater chance of defending itself if it brought all of the mages of Orlais under its control.

 

This idea has potential, though doing so would also push the templars into supporting the Orlesians. A few hundred mage refugees might be powerful, but I doubt it would be enough to stand against the entire templar order.

[LightningPoodle]

While I do sympathise with the rebel mages, I don't think it would necessarily be a bad move to refuse them sanctuary in Redcliffe. If the Ferelden crown had sympathy for the mages, they could have aided them quietly and indirectly (such as discreetly moving supplies into their camps). But declaring Redcliffe as a place of sanctuary for all mages just seems akin to painting a giant target over Ferelden, unless there is some sort of political motive that we don't know about.

 

That isn't always the case. Sometimes, people who have the power to make a difference, do make a difference purely because it is the right thing to do. Declaring Redcliffe as a sanctuary was the right move, and it's the move I would have made. Trying to hide behind whispers and underground trade routes is another way of saying, "we don't want to be seen with you."

[Br3admax]

Because the writers wanted them too. No other rational explanation. 

[noxpanda]

It was probably a political move to prevent orlais from getting any ideas about invading. Not that orlais was currently in a position to invade with its civil war going, just future insurance. After all an army of mages would make any country think twice about invading.

[Bad King]

It was probably a political move to prevent orlais from getting any ideas about invading. Not that orlais was currently in a position to invade with its civil war going, just future insurance. After all an army of mages would make any country think twice about invading.

 

The only problem with this argument is that whoever backs the mages has the templars opposed to them. And from what we learn in the game, the templars seem to be the stronger faction by a country mile: the mages are essentially a band of survivors who escaped the various annulments declared on their circles while the templars are a better armed, better organised and more established military order with greater numbers and abilities that nullify magic. Gaspard with the templar order at his back would be Ferelden's worst nightmare - such a possibility would surely make Ferelden's monarch think twice about offering the mages sanctuary when the benefits of doing so seem so small.

 

That isn't always the case. Sometimes, people who have the power to make a difference, do make a difference purely because it is the right thing to do. Declaring Redcliffe as a sanctuary was the right move, and it's the move I would have made. Trying to hide behind whispers and underground trade routes is another way of saying, "we don't want to be seen with you."

 

I disagree that it was the correct move as it threatened the peace in Ferelden: a country that sorely needed it after the decades of devastating wars that plagued the nation. Protecting a few hundred mages behind a city wall doesn't seem worth it when the templars are on the doorstep and willing to fight over them. Too many innocents would be threatened.

[ctd757]

How many mages are their we never get an exact number?

[Br3admax]

It was probably a political move to prevent orlais from getting any ideas about invading. Not that orlais was currently in a position to invade with its civil war going, just future insurance. After all an army of mages would make any country think twice about invading.

Except these aren't really combatants, Templars are already having them on the ropes, and Vivienne has half of Thedas' mages in Orlais already.  

[Lumix19]

I can see Fereldan taking them in as preparation against an Orlesian invasion, especially with the animosity between the Templars and the Chantry (which Orlais has close ties with).

[robertmarilyn]

 

The only problem with this argument is that whoever backs the mages has the templars opposed to them. And from what we learn in the game, the templars seem to be the stronger faction by a country mile: the mages are essentially a band of survivors who escaped the various annulments declared on their circles while the templars are a better armed, better organised and more established military order with greater numbers and abilities that nullify magic. Gaspard with the templar order at his back would be Ferelden's worst nightmare - such a possibility would surely make Ferelden's monarch think twice about offering the mages sanctuary when the benefits of doing so seem so small.

snip

 

I use the same world state for all my games and that is with Alistair and my gray warden ruling together (although she is off looking for a cure for the calling). Annulments wipe out innocent people and mages are people despite being mages. Alistair is protecting people being persecuted. Giving these people refuge was the right thing to do and Alistair it all about doing the right thing. What Alexis did was something that was unimaginable until it actually happened since it'd never been done before. 

[Bad King]

I use the same world state for all my games and that is with Alistair and my gray warden ruling together (although she is off looking for a cure for the calling). Annulments wipe out innocent people and mages are people despite being mages. Alistair is protecting people being persecuted. Giving these people refuge was the right thing to do and Alistair it all about doing the right thing. What Alexis did was something that was unimaginable until it actually happened since it'd never been done before. 

 

I'm not buying the argument that declaring Redcliffe a haven for mages was the right thing to do. As I noted above, Ferelden faced too many threats and was too weak to suddenly step up and declare themselves protectors of the mages. It just seems like a reckless and irresponsible thing to do considering the probable consequences: templar invasion would be inevitable, and an even worse outcome would be a templar-backed Orlesian invasion led by Gaspard, or possibly even Celene in a bid to cement her own rule in the aftermath of a civil war. On top of this, it's dangerous to have frightened, unregulated mages living within a dense urban area: we saw in DA:O how a minority of mages led to the whole tower being overrun by demons and abominations. Having been torn apart by the Blight and civil wars, Ferelden would be caught with its pants down if the templars decided to invade.

[Carmen_Willow]

Perhaps it's because during the Blight, mages, Wynne, Morrigan and possibly the HOF saved Ferelden from being overrun by Darkspawn. If Alistair is King, he would have done it in honor of Wynne if for no other reason (they liked one another), but Anora might have seen it as a debt to repay.  After all, if you look at the areas overtaken by the Blight before the HOF kills the archdemon, you can imagine what all of Ferelden would have looked like (Western Approach after a thousand years) if the Blight hadn't been ended so quickly. So, yeah, I can see both Alistair and Anora offering sanctuary to mages in repayment for their help in ending the Blight..

 

ADDED THOUGHTS:

 

It also could have started as a simple refugee effort to return Fereldens home from that crazy Kirkwall. After all, the mages would have been Ferelden subjects too, and if they fled to Kirkwall to escape the blight, and Anora or Alistair offered a return program.... After all, it would be in the best interest of the nation to have warm bodies return to grow crops, engage in trade, etc.   Having offered asylum, and realizing that the mages could be an issue, you have to find a place to put them and someone you trust to oversee them and report back to you-hence Teagan and Redcliffe.

[Eliastion]

The "it's the right thing to do" arguments could perhaps have some sway on Alistair, but we must also include the possibility of Anora ruling alone, and that one is unlikely to go all sentimental. She would care for her kingdom first and "the right thing to do" would most likely be considered a tie-breaker if she had trouble deciding what's best for Ferelden.

There are some world states where it makes more sense - with royal boon being an attempt to whisk Fereldan Circle's further from Chantry control based on popularity of mage HoF. Something like that would likely push Ferelden int pro-mage territory by default... but that's another variable as not every HoF is of Mage Origin.

There could perhaps be some other explanations. I don't know when the decision to accept refugees in Redcliffe was made - it could've been tied to the preparations for the Conclave (when mages and templars alike were pushed to truce), in this case it could be a bet for Justinia's success - if the war ends AFTER Ferelden has stretched its hand to mages, the kingdom can benefit from this. A peace would mean more freedom for the mages and said mages would still be on good terms with Ferelden and indebted to it. That's something you can capitalize on.

But that's just a random thought

[Bad King]

Perhaps it's because during the Blight, mages, Wynne, Morrigan and possibly the HOF saved Ferelden from being overrun by Darkspawn. If Alistair is King, he would have done it in honor of Wynne if for no other reason (they liked one another), but Anora might have seen it as a debt to repay.  After all, if you look at the areas overtaken by the Blight before the HOF kills the archdemon, you can imagine what all of Ferelden would have looked like (Western Approach after a thousand years) if the Blight hadn't been ended so quickly. So, yeah, I can see both Alistair and Anora offering sanctuary to mages in repayment for their help in ending the Blight..

 

The problem here is that in some playthroughs the templars were recruited, Wynne killed and Morrigan fled before the final battle, and yet it still happens. Regardless, I'm not sure if Ferelden prioritises repaying its debts to individuals over protecting its population: for instance, they declared their circle of magi free in one ending yet backslid when the Chantry told them this wasn't possible and the same seems to be true of the Dalish homeland ending.

[robertmarilyn]

Alistair giving refuge to the mages fits my personal canon world state very well but I do realize it doesn't fit well with other world states. Even my non mages want to help mages because I personally can't stand the idea of condemning a person for being born something that they have no control over. In the DA world, being a mage stinks because it can be a prison sentence from day one, in a lot of world states. 

[Eliastion]

(...)for instance, they declared their circle of magi free in one ending yet backslid when the Chantry told them this wasn't possible and the same seems to be true of the Dalish homeland ending.

In all seriousness, the boons were pretty much discarded as if they never happened, that's the sad reality of them. You could say that the magi boon just didn't work out, but the dalish one would need an invasion to re-take the lands given to Dalish - and frankly those don't seem like lands worth fighting over. According to the slides one would expect that the "dalish country" exists, trying to somewhat organize itself and forge some proper diplomatic relations with human lands (Ferelden mostly), in no small part thanks to efforts of Keeper Lanaya.

But there is just no place for that in DA:I and the Dragon Age Keep doesn't even acknowledge the possibility of any boon being granted, if I recall correctly.