773 réponses à ce sujet

[Lord Surinen]

This is not your average patch. The NDA makes sense due to the new content in development, here:

 

http://blog.bioware....black-emporium/

 

Imagine the testers being told they can talk about, say, 13 features, but not these 19 other features, how long would it take before someone slips up? In order to avoid confusion and human error, it's a lot safer to just have an NDA on the entire testing process.

Ahh such noble prevention. To save us all from confusion. It is good to have such a competent big brother.

[JaegerBane]

With them? BioWare? No, I did not see NDA stuffed patch before. Partial NDA is a common thing too. I see it being quite practical. Still, I want to know about the elvhes and their broken-glued arms fix.

A few posts ago you were saying that you'd never heard of NDAs on patches... but you see them often enough to know that partial NDAs on patches are common. Seems legit.

The bottom line is that what you consider to be quite practical is irrelevant, by definition you do not know what the NDA covers therefore, short of claiming insider sources or psychic powers, your argument does not make sense. It's one thing to express frustration but it's quite another to argue from ignorance.

[Hexoduen]

Ahh such noble prevention. To save us all from confusion. It is good to have such a competent big brother.

 

The industry standard for a closed beta-test of new content is to have an NDA in effect. But you prob. already know this, so.... yeah, I'm outta here.

[Vanth]

There is a terminology problem here too though. A "patch" should not provide new content. That would be an "update" or an "expansion". Patches are supposed to fix bugs, not add functionality.

[Lord Surinen]

A few posts ago you were saying that you'd never heard of NDAs on patches... but you see them often enough to know that partial NDAs on patches are common. Seems legit.

The bottom line is that what you consider to be quite practical is irrelevant, by definition you do not know what the NDA covers therefore, short of claiming insider sources or psychic powers, your argument does not make sense. It's one thing to express frustration but it's quite another to argue from ignorance.

Such a missed dramatic flair! ...you...know........few...posts...ago...I...have...said..............................................that partial NDA are common, nothing about 'patch NDA'.......... .. .. .. ... .. . .. .. . . . . . .. . ..

 

It does not matter what it covers, it might start on the back of Dauphin and end in the slums of Quebec. It is a patch, 'dlc', not a full installation, expansion. Just a patch in testing phase. Fixes should not be under NDA, my elvhes should not be under it! Strip it I say!

 

 

The industry standard for a closed beta-test of new content is to have an NDA in effect. But you prob. already know this, so.... yeah, I'm outta here.

Full installations, expansions, yes, sure.

[yeldarbnotned]

Any new hairstyles in emporium?

[SkaldFish]

There is a terminology problem here too though. A "patch" should not provide new content. That would be an "update" or an "expansion". Patches are supposed to fix bugs, not add functionality.

I know that's what "patch" should mean, but in practice in the VG industry it has come to mean any free update, linked to a specific product version number, that applies product revisions. Those revisions might just be bug fixes, but can also include new features or changes to existing features/functions. (I've personally experienced MMO patches that removed features.) 

 

I'd prefer "update," but I think we're stuck with "patch." 

 

As for the notion of a "partial NDA," I've been a software dev consultant for more years than I'm willing to admit here. I've signed (and required others to sign) dozens of NDA's, and I've never heard of such a thing, so I call BS.

 

I've criticized BioWare for many things over the years, but they are doing this right and I applaud them for it. What difference does it make that you've never heard of it being done before for a patch? It's great that they are directly involving users in their development process (something new for them, BTW), and if they feel in so doing that they need to apply an NDA to protect their IP or reserve their right to change the content of the final release, that's their decision to make, not yours.

 

Is their silence here frustrating? Yes, but -- God -- given what I see here sometimes, I can sure understand it. Do I wish they'd at least publish a "Known Issues" list? Definitely, but what we do know about the contents of this patch tells me they read every stinkin' post, which is more than I would do.

[Lord Surinen]

ESO, FF, WIldstar. First three examples of partial NDA- partial lifts that have popped out in my head. TW: Attila too I think.

[SkaldFish]

I think you'd better give us your personal, special definition of "partial NDA," then.

[Lord Surinen]

Partial NDA is partial, some things must be kept secret and some can be revealed. Good example of it is mentioned Wildstar. If I remember correctly people could discuss the game up to level xx, make videos of it and screenshots. Of course it varies from game to game.

[DarkAmaranth1966]

Pretty simple why the NDA, new content and, what if something in the patch/update does not work properly and it can't be fixed in time for release? Less disappointment and harsh words if we just don't tell anyone what is in the patch/update and easier for people to remember a full NDA vs. a partial.

 

Yes I have tested under partial NDA but, this is the first public beta for Bioware and, many of the testers are first time beta testers so, it's just simpler to use a full NDA.

[SkaldFish]

Partial NDA is partial, some things must be kept secret and some can be revealed. Good example of it is mentioned Wildstar. If I remember correctly people could discuss the game up to level xx, make videos of it and screenshots. Of course it varies from game to game.

I'm familiar with the partial lifting of an NDA, but otherwise an NDA covers what it covers. Fully.

[Poisd2Strike]

Hopefully it won't take too long for Patch 5 to hit consoles after it has been confirmed to be working properly on PC...And hopefully it will not require an immediate hotfix

[Eelectrica]

Partial NDA is partial, some things must be kept secret and some can be revealed. Good example of it is mentioned Wildstar. If I remember correctly people could discuss the game up to level xx, make videos of it and screenshots. Of course it varies from game to game.

if an NDA requirement is what it takes to open it up to a few actual gamers to test then so be it. Better that than not having the beta limited public beta at all.

And no I'm not one of the chosen few. Am happy to wait until those that are in it are given the green light to discuss it.

[AlanC9]

Most of Blizzard patches are being tested this way. I have no memory for game titles.

Why am I not surprised?

Whining about NDA is about elvhes.

 
Is it an effective form of whining about elves? We're not actually talking about elves here except when I bring it up.

[Vanth]

I have another question about the mirror (as long as it isn't blocked by the NDA): does it cost money to change your appearance or is it free?

[Lord Surinen]

I'm familiar with the partial lifting of an NDA, but otherwise an NDA covers what it covers. Fully.

I'm familiar with other forms too.

 

 

if an NDA requirement is what it takes to open it up to a few actual gamers to test then so be it. Better that than not having the beta limited public beta at all.

And no I'm not one of the chosen few. Am happy to wait until those that are in it are given the green light to discuss it.

Noble sacrifice. I admire it.

 

That being said, there is no reason to hold NDA on fixes.

 

Why am I not surprised?

 
Is it an effective form of whining about elves? We're not actually talking about elves here except when I bring it up.

Later in this thread I have mentioned also non Blizzard NDA treatments.

 

Lord Surinen works in mysterious ways.

[Eelectrica]

There's clearly more to it than just fixes. This place would riot if they announce awesome feature X is going to be added and then had to pull it for some reason.

They didn't even have to open it up. Could have just kept working quietly away then released it and hoped for the best.

[Lord Surinen]

So very much nice of them to allow playerbase to test it for them. The thing is that they can reveal fixes without revealing their new shiny content.

[Ieldra]

Ahh such noble prevention. To save us all from confusion. It is good to have such a competent big brother.

An NDA really makes sense. Imagine people freely talking about bugs in the beta version in public - that could damage the game's reputation needlessly if the bugs are gone in the final version, and given the beta test exists to remove bugs, such things would happen. The same for new desirable features in the beta and people getting all excited. It may be those need to be removed at the last minute and then people will be extremely disappointed. Really, it's better for everyone if these things remain non-public.  

[Lord Surinen]

An NDA really makes sense. Imagine people freely talking about bugs in the beta version in public - that could damage the game's reputation needlessly if the bugs are gone in the final version, and given the beta test exists to remove bugs, such things would happen. The same for new desirable features in the beta and people getting all excited. It may be those need to be removed at the last minute and then people will be extremely disappointed. Really, it's better for everyone if these things remain non-public.  

Big brother on the rise, again. Citizens bow down before the prevention! Last time I have checked I were not EA shareholder. I'm afraid that there is a huge gap between company's senses and mine own. Many games survived it, I expect nothing less from creme de la creme GOTY DA:I.

 

Also, I'm not talking about the bugs of the content in 'beta' version, but about the bug fixes for the content we have currently on our plates.

[Farangbaa]

Someone's really annoyed they didn't get into the beta program, my goodness.

[Teddie Sage]

*sips tea and pretends there isn't a conspiracy theorist lurking on this thread*

[Lord Surinen]

Someone's really annoyed they didn't get into the beta program, my goodness.

I did not even sign up for it. I have not even played this game past few initial cinematics. I will not play this game until they fix elvhes. I'm not annoyed, I question BioWare's good will, no, in fact I don't. It is a level of rot that I try to evaluate. I want to know if the elvhes are fixed and this ridiculous piece of NDA is preventing me from knowing. That is all.

[Farangbaa]

I did not even sign up for it. I have not even played this game past few initial cinematics. I will not play this game until they fix elvhes. I'm not annoyed, I question BioWare's good will, no, in fact I don't. It is a level of rot that I try to evaluate. I want to know if the elvhes are fixed and this ridiculous piece of NDA is preventing me from knowing. That is all.

Great, that at least makes it clear that it's all about you and your personal desires. Not about proper business decisions, which an NDA is in this case.