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[Poledo]

http://kotaku.com/a-...ract-1676539291

 

I know it's Kotaku but... it's interesting since I have heard some theories on Flemeth/Mythal being Andraste.

[Precursor Meta]

I remember one of the developers coming on the forum and answering the question of why Solas is bald. His answer was pretty much that his appearance was influenced by the amount time/money they had to work on him. So is it just coincidence that he looks like shar-what ever? Who knows?

Edit: Here is the official statement regarding Solas' Baldness: http://forum.bioware...bald/?bioware=1

[Poledo]

I remember one of the developers coming on the forum and answering the question of why Solas is bald. His answer was pretty much that his appearance was influenced by the amount time/money they had to work on him. So is it just coincidence that he looks like shar-what ever? Who knows?

Edit: Here is the official statement regarding Solas' Baldness: http://forum.bioware...bald/?bioware=1

 

Too funny.

[CronoDragoon]

Here's Shartan as depicted in stained glass:

 

 

I mean

 

 

That's a pretty big coinkidink, if not.

[King Cousland]

Probably. Mythal also probably possessed Andraste and jumped into Flemeth after she was burned. 

[Wulfram]

"X is an Elven God" is the new "X is Flemeth".

Of course, the truth is that the elven gods are all Time Lords. Solas is The Doctor, the Forbidden Ones are Daleks.
edit: Forgotten Ones, not Forbidden Ones.

[Poledo]

"X is an Elven God" is the new "X is Flemeth".

Of course, the truth is that the elven gods are all Time Lords. Solas is The Doctor, the Forbidden Ones are Daleks.

 

Best theory I have heard yet!

[xJLxKing]

To be honest, people are trying to nitpick any correlation or connection to make theories. I don't believe in this one. 

[Precursor Meta]

To be honest, people are trying to nitpick any correlation or connection to make theories. I don't believe in this one.

It's perfect theory bait. Solas' tarot card resembling shar and the Mythal mural in the Temple of ashes. Coincidence?

[Poledo]

It makes sense to me if you take all the Gods over Thedas' history and assume they are all in one sense or another the same Gods. Which then begs the questions were the any Gods at all or just people of great influence and power?

 

I don't know, but I do enjoy the speculation and theorizing. I don't buy into the Sera as Andruil theory but I think that was a well thought out line of reasoning.

[Gervaise]

With regard to his baldness, I think all the ancient elves were bald.   Whilst the sentinals often have hoods on, when cut scenes show them being killed they are bald.   Also those weird cave paintings seem to show bald elves.     May be getting hair was the trade off to losing magic. 

 

As for that picture, has anyone from the Devs actually confired it is meant to be Shartan.  The reason I ask is that in the Redcliffe Chantry it occupies the central panel at the head of the aisle.   Now in iconography that space would normally be occupied by the most important person in the faith, or the saint to whom the building was dedicated.    The Chantry don't have any saints as such, just Andraste, so it does seem odd that Shartan would be the figure placed in the position of most importance.   Now I can see why it could be thought to refer to Shartan because of the chains and the key but then that could equally refer to Andraste.   In which case, the picture confirms a theory of mine which is that Andraste herself was an elf.   I base this on the fact that she was originally considered too slight and delicate to bear Maferath's children, which bearing in mind our elf body model is entirely believable.

 

To be honest though it seem odd that there is any iconography with elven features, bearing in mind that the expulsion of all references to Shartan and the elves in the Chant didn't just apply Orlais.   I'll actually be disappointed if they are making a link between Shartan and Solas because I like to think that Shartan was what we were led to believe, an elven slave warrior who took the opportunity provided by Andraste's crusade to free his people and win them a homeland, though he never saw it himself.    A good heroic figure that elves can still rightly be proud of, not some ancient god who just steps in to help when it suits him.

[X Equestris]

I've heard the theory. The resemblances are startling.

[MACharlie1]

Here's Shartan as depicted in stained glass:



I mean



That's a pretty big coinkidink, if not.

This was definitly no accident.

And Solas does have a key - his orb.

[MisterJB]

Mythal may have possessed Andraste but Flemeth couldn't have been Andraste.

This because Flemeth indirectly confirms the story that she killed Conobar and that happened centuries after Andraste was murdered.

[leaguer of one]

Mythal may have possessed Andraste but Flemeth couldn't have been Andraste.

This because Flemeth indirectly confirms the story that she killed Conobar and that happened centuries after Andraste was murdered.

You're not getting it. Flemeth is Mythal...The current version. It's like this Mythal to Andraste to Flemeth.

[MACharlie1]

Mythal may have possessed Andraste but Flemeth couldn't have been Andraste.
This because Flemeth indirectly confirms the story that she killed Conobar and that happened centuries after Andraste was murdered.

Man, Mythal has the bad habit of possessing women whose husbands like to kill them.

[Big I]

1) Shartan was Andrastian. There was a whole Canticle in the Chant of Light devoted to him before the Exalted March on the Dales.

 

2) Shartan's spirit was in the Gauntlet at the Temple of Sacred Ashes, protecting the Urn.

 

3) One of the pages in the Emergent Compendium in the Black Emporium reads "Two shadowed spheres among stars subtitled "aboofqp iboxE'kbC px bpmfizb kX""; when decoded the subtitle means "An eclipse as Fen'Harel stirred". This implies Fen'Harel wasn't awake when the Emergent Compendium entry was written.

 

Solas was not Shartan.

[MACharlie1]

1) Shartan was Andrastian. There was a whole Canticle in the Chant of Light devoted to him before the Exalted March on the Dales.

2) Shartan's spirit was in the Gauntlet at the Temple of Sacred Ashes, protecting the Urn.

3) One of the pages in the Emergent Compendium in the Black Emporium reads "Two shadowed spheres among stars subtitled "aboofqp iboxE'kbC px bpmfizb kX""; when decoded the subtitle means "An eclipse as Fen'Harel stirred". This implies Fen'Harel wasn't awake when the Emergent Compendium entry was written.

Solas was not Shartan.

1. Was there such thing as an Andrastian during the time of Andraste? I always imagined it like Christianity - Christians didn't exist when Jesus was alive. They were just followers.

2. I don't think those were the actual spirits of those individuals. The dead move on from this world and pass through the fade. And then if you get the answer wrong then they turn into demons. They really weren't actual spirits and souls of those they represented. You also encounter spirits of someone from the Wardens past and spirits of yourself and companions. All obviously not actual spirits.

3. EC was pre-Tevinter. Totally irrelevant.

[ManchesterUnitedFan1]

Here's Shartan as depicted in stained glass:

 

 

I mean

 

 

That's a pretty big coinkidink, if not.

 

Goodness, first Sera's card matching Andruil's vallaslin and now this..

[ManchesterUnitedFan1]

Further thoughts on the images: The Mark is referred to as the 'key' occasionally, and the key in Shartan's hand has been replaced in Solas' image by a flame shaped a awful lot like the Mark

[Chuvvy]

I think it's an interesting idea, and I see it as a possibility. But, I highly doubt they planned this from DAO, more likely it was just a convenient outcome.

[ManchesterUnitedFan1]

I think it's an interesting idea, and I see it as a possibility. But, I highly doubt they planned this from DAO, more likely it was just a convenient outcome.

 

They'd already drafted the plot of inquisition before da:o came out, and a plot point as big as this would have been in the draft, so they likely have.

[Big I]

1. Was there such thing as an Andrastian during the time of Andraste? I always imagined it like Christianity - Christians didn't exist when Jesus was alive. They were just followers.

2. I don't think those were the actual spirits of those individuals. The dead move on from this world and pass through the fade. And then if you get the answer wrong then they turn into demons. They really weren't actual spirits and souls of those they represented. You also encounter spirits of someone from the Wardens past and spirits of yourself and companions. All obviously not actual spirits.

3. EC was pre-Tevinter. Totally irrelevant.

Whatever they were called, Shartan believed in the Maker and the Chant of Light. It's highly unlikely an elven god would share that faith.

 

No one really knows what happens to the souls of the dead. The ash wraiths codex entry details how devout believers would turn themselves into ash wraiths in order to protect the temple; that's what the spirits of the Gauntlet turn into if you attack them or get their riddle wrong. It is possible that those were the actual spirits of Andraste's mother, Maferath etc called forth to protect the Urn.

 

The Emergen Compendium might be pre-Tevinter, but the entries aren't. As you turn the pages of the book, new entries appear/are written. That's why the codex author gets glimpses of his wife cheating on him.

[catabuca]

Here's Shartan as depicted in stained glass:

 

 

I mean

 

 

That's a pretty big coinkidink, if not.

 

It's canon as far as I'm concerned and no one can convince me otherwise 

 

Anyway, looking at Shartan's picture up there, it ties in nicely with the theory I have about what Fen'harel actually did with the elvhen gods.

 

We know the gods could take the form of dragons, that it was a form reserved for them. We have seven sealed elvhen gods, and we have seven (although rapidly depleating) sealed 'old gods' that are dragons. I believe that the elvhen gods were corrupted by the taint (we know at least one of them had previous access to it - Andruil), which fuelled their warring. I believe Fen'harel separated out the dragon aspect of the gods from their totality, and sealed them away separately. The dragon aspect still contained the taint, but was such a significant part of the elvhen gods that they likely couldn't survive or function properly without it (or at least couldn't retain their power), so they were sealed away as well. He did this for two reasons: 1) to put a temporary but immediate stop to the war before it got any worse; and 2) to give him time to look for a better solution (possibly a cure for the taint).

 

The dragon aspects retained the taint, and retained that lust for war. They called out to the Tevinter magisters to breach the Fade because they wanted to become whole with their other halves again. Well, we know that went pear shaped. Because they are such powerful and huge loci of the taint, that's why darkspawn are drawn to them. When they find them, the darkspawn don't taint them - Thedas has that completely misunderstood; they are already tainted, and the darkspawn set them free to rampage across the continent still fuelled by that blind rage for a war they can barely even remember. When an archdemon is slain, the darkspawn trickle back underground again, drawn to the next powerful locus of the taint. It follows that if all the dragons are killed, it won't end the taint, but might in fact result in a decentralised perma-blight of sorts, as the darkspawn have no more reason to spend eons underground searching, and are free to roam aimlessly above or below ground as they wish. This is why Solas is so angry with the Grey Wardens: they're killing his brethren one by one and ruining his chance of reuniting them upon finding a solution, and at the same time they don't understand that their grand heroic gestures won't actually solve anything.

 

The reason I bring all of this up is because Shartan's picture up there could be read to be something of a description of his sealing away of the two god aspects: on the left we have what I'm taking to be a representation of an elvhen god, looking up towards the heavens, standing on lush green ground - green like the fade; on the right we have what I am taking to be a representation of the corrupted half of the gods, looking down towards the abyss, standing on hard orange/red ground - like the stone underground.

 

In addition, the blue/green area in the background and around Shartan could be taken as evidence of Fen'harel/Solas creating the veil - we have the blue of the sky around us, and separated from it, outside of it, we have the green of the Fade.

 

These symbols might be interpreted in other ways as well, if you look through the Chant or various historical events, but I'm happily taking it as more suggestive possible-evidence of my ever-evolving theory.

[MACharlie1]

Whatever they were called, Shartan believed in the Maker and the Chant of Light. It's highly unlikely an elven god would share that faith.

No one really knows what happens to the souls of the dead. The ash wraiths codex entry details how devout believers would turn themselves into ash wraiths in order to protect the temple; that's what the spirits of the Gauntlet turn into if you attack them or get their riddle wrong. It is possible that those were the actual spirits of Andraste's mother, Maferath etc called forth to protect the Urn.

The Emergen Compendium might be pre-Tevinter, but the entries aren't. As you turn the pages of the book, new entries appear/are written. That's why the codex author gets glimpses of his wife cheating on him.

There wasn't a Chant of Light in Shartans time.

The spirits - there many spirits who clearly aren't the actual spirits.

As for the book - I don't see how this connects to Shartan and the era of Andraste. All we know is that Solas was asleep SOME TIME between fall of Arlathan and the present which we already knew. We don't know when that page was written. And the game notes state that Solas was asleep for a thousand years which is right around the time of Andraste.