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[General TSAR]

Shepard is MIA as far as I'm concerned and he should remain that way. 

[Arcian]

Garrus survived as a spectre long enough to retire but died from a malfunction in the home security system he set up.

My sides are swimming laps on the surface of the sun.

[Lordus]

As a mod user, my Shepard got picked up after destroying the Reapers then had an awesome party at my apartment. Waking up with my LI we all walked back to the Nomandy saying our last few words, then boarded...

 

A happy ending

[Iakus]

As a mod user, my Shepard got picked up after destroying the Reapers then had an awesome party at my apartment. Waking up with my LI we all walked back to the Nomandy saying our last few words, then boarded...

 

A happy ending

Can't like twice, so gonna add a "This" 

[Reedirector]

The thing is, if you take Mass Effect 2 & 3, insert them into the moment between shep being buried in the rubble at the end of mass effect 1, and him waking up and walking out of it, then it all fits quite nicely.  (if you make the correct choice - fan fiction or not) Mass Effect 1 remains intact - and mass effect 2 and 3 take place in that moment where shepard is buried and if he makes the right choice he wakes up.

 

Problem solved.  Bring on mass effect 4.

 

I actually really like that idea. It may not be the most practical, as SwobyJ pointed out. It requires the players to disregard massive events and important characters in the second two games as imaginary. 

 

But in some ways (and I suspect it was not Bioware's intention that) it really works. 

 

• The drastic change in tone from the first to the last two games. ME1 always felt to me like the most stand-alone of the three to me. It has the best ending, in my opinion, and gives a sense of closure (no mean feat, given the fact the plot has only just begun)
• Cerberus and their "Human-centric" policies reflect the guilt/doubt Shepard may have been feeling about sacrificing human lives to save the Council. Or not, as the case may be.
• Project Lazarus obviously fits with being stuck under rubble and being close to death. (although I'm not sure Near-Death Experiences usually have this level of dramatic symbolism lol)
• Admiral Anderson having a more important role near the end and dying would fit with the fact that he's searching for Shepard amongst the rubble in ME1. 
• EDIT: The Collectors themselves could be inspired by a severely wounded Shepard reflecting on the Cipher and the events on Ilos, hearing about the slow deaths of the last remaining Protheans.

ME1 was possibly my favourite of the three and From The Wreckage my favourite piece from the OST, so this is just me indulging my exotic sensibilities.

 

 

It's a lose/lose situation on Bioware's end, and really no sense to dive down that rabbit hole considering all the other things they had to pare down just for the game to be playable in any reasonable form.

 

 

I agree with a lot of the points you make, especially about cutting Bioware some slack. ME3 must have been one of the hardest games to get right of all time. I think ME1 is a good place to start when considering the alternatives though. The ending to that gave me a lot of closure. The series could have ended there and I wouldn't have minded. It was good ambiguous, it kept me thinking What Next? Compare to ME3 which was bad ambiguous, and left me thinking What Was That?

 

If Bioware had spent more time on the options available during the ending, giving a diverse range of possibilities (reminiscent of Dragon Age:Origins) but leaving the details up to the player, they could have saved themselves and the players a lot of grief, while facilitating the shift of focus in ME Next. Maybe if they had extended the release date like they did with DA:I?

 

All this is coming from someone with zero Videogame creating experience, so take with an unhealthy dose of salt. Feel free to correct me.

[Reedirector]

As a mod user, my Shepard got picked up after destroying the Reapers then had an awesome party at my apartment. Waking up with my LI we all walked back to the Nomandy saying our last few words, then boarded...

 

A happy ending

 

"Looks like we maaaaade ittttt"

[SwobyJ]

This is one point of contention I have with the ending, and I think it's due to the writers switching up the meaning of the word synthetic between the description for destroy and the description for synthesis. I don't believe it's the intent, but it does make it seem as though the Catalyst is contradicting itself.

 

In destroy, the Catalyst seems to imply that anything synthetic, up to and including the cybernetics and artificial organs Shepard has, will be destroyed. Which doesn't make a lot of sense, since it's also clearly trying to talk about synthetic life alone.

 

In synthesis, the Catalyst states an inverse to this, mentioning how intelligent synthetics are already such a huge part of galactic everyday life, which isn't really true as the only AI that we really have in our day to day life is EDI and the Geth. EDI was only created 3 years previously, and the Geth were, until a few months prior, an isolationist species that had been closed off from the galaxy for the last 300 years, and had been, in the eyes of the galaxy, actively hostile every time they reappeared. It backs this up by implying that it means anything synthetic at all, such as the implants Shepard has.

 

Just a little hole in the writing.

 

I really just think that the Destroy Wave is a more destructive wave and therefore needs a better targeting system in order to hit all synthetics...

 

Shepard isn't a synthetic. He has synthetic parts involved with his reconstruction, that he doesn't consider 'him'.

 

 

'Targeting' does not = 'Destroyed'. Catalyst is warning Shepard, but not saying he WILL be destroyed.

[SwobyJ]

I actually really like that idea. It may not be the most practical, as SwobyJ pointed out. It requires the players to disregard massive events and important characters in the second two games as imaginary. 

 

But in some ways (and I suspect it was not Bioware's intention that) it really works. 

 

• The drastic change in tone from the first to the last two games. ME1 always felt to me like the most stand-alone of the three to me. It has the best ending, in my opinion, and gives a sense of closure (no mean feat, given the fact the plot has only just begun)
• Cerberus and their "Human-centric" policies reflect the guilt/doubt Shepard may have been feeling about sacrificing human lives to save the Council. Or not, as the case may be.
• Project Lazarus obviously fits with being stuck under rubble and being close to death. (although I'm not sure Near-Death Experiences usually have this level of dramatic symbolism lol)
• Admiral Anderson having a more important role near the end and dying would fit with the fact that he's searching for Shepard amongst the rubble in ME1. 

ME1 was possibly my favourite of the three and From The Wreckage my favourite piece from the OST, so this is just me indulging my exotic sensibilities.

 

 

This post says anything I might respond to dork with.

 

I'm open to possibilities, but if a certain level of handwaving is done to ME2-ME3, I'm outta here. I was able to even theorize/hypothesize the stuff I did, because I found cool the idea that we saw all these events of the trilogy, and experienced them all in a realm that may still be relevant (what? the Geth Consensus level did nothing? Clearly it affected the physical world, and the Geth persist as entities), while not getting the whole story of things, nor the knowledge that everyone is waiting for the protagonist to be saved the whole time.

 

"And I need you to recover, cuz I can't make it on my own. (...) The bleeding loss of blood runs cold." -Faunts

 

 

[KaeserZen]

I actually really like that idea. It may not be the most practical, as SwobyJ pointed out. It requires the players to disregard massive events and important characters in the second two games as imaginary. 

 

But in some ways (and I suspect it was not Bioware's intention that) it really works. 

 

• The drastic change in tone from the first to the last two games. ME1 always felt to me like the most stand-alone of the three to me. It has the best ending, in my opinion, and gives a sense of closure (no mean feat, given the fact the plot has only just begun)
• Cerberus and their "Human-centric" policies reflect the guilt/doubt Shepard may have been feeling about sacrificing human lives to save the Council. Or not, as the case may be.
• Project Lazarus obviously fits with being stuck under rubble and being close to death. (although I'm not sure Near-Death Experiences usually have this level of dramatic symbolism lol)
• Admiral Anderson having a more important role near the end and dying would fit with the fact that he's searching for Shepard amongst the rubble in ME1. 

ME1 was possibly my favourite of the three and From The Wreckage my favourite piece from the OST, so this is just me indulging my exotic sensibilities.

 

That would be very interesting and explain a bit of the goofy stuff that happens after that : the death in ME2, why sovereign didn't go with the Collectors instead of the Geth. why the Council still refuses to acknowledge the probability of Reapers (should have considered it a possibility, and the fact that he isn't believed in ME2 echoes to the ME1) and the silly ME3 endings.

 

Of course we'd lose a lot of the good stuff from ME2 and 3 and that would be bad... But I actually would love to play in that universe (alternate post ME1).

[SwobyJ]

That would be very interesting and explain a bit of the goofy stuff that happens after that : the death in ME2, why sovereign didn't go with the Collectors instead of the Geth. why the Council still refuses to acknowledge the probability of Reapers (should have considered it a possibility, and the fact that he isn't believed in ME2 echoes to the ME1) and the silly ME3 endings.

 

Of course we'd lose a lot of the good stuff from ME2 and 3 and that would be bad... But I actually would love to play in that universe (alternate post ME1).

 

And yes, an alternate post 'ME1' (and even the 'ME1' wouldn't be quite real in this example, I think?) could work for me as long as ME2-ME3 wasn't a narrative waste. And I think that is technically possible to do, depending on how weird you want to get with time/virtuality/physics/etc.

 

I play Citadel DLC and it keeps feeling like it is chock full of background foreshadowing (to be clear, I'm not just talking about the overt "You'll win and stuff" parts) about a future that I haven't seen yet. And neither has Shepard. So how might 'Shepard' know?

 

My mind boggles.

 

But again, yeah, I can deal with ME2-ME3 not being the 'real story' to things as long as it certainly WAS a story.

 

DA2 demonstrates a much more grounded version of this, with Varric telling the story, the story you experienced is essentially your (the player's) truth, but we know that not everything actually happened like that, but we know no better, and we effectively have to go on the story we experienced. Adding the possibility of time themes in here, and we could have played a vision of a world that never was - a sort of Purgatory that purifies Shepard's 'soul' and returns him back to make things right.

 

But at the same time, we have the messaging from Bioware, so far, that we're getting something very different, with all new characters. But then we get a Hero who looks like he could be Shepardish, a Mako, the confirmation that we 'may' get connections to past games (including characters I think? I forget), etc...

 

 

Personally, I'd love visiting a Thane that doesn't know me, yet I can know him, and I can try to fix his problems again but without my Shepard-Fixaroo powers and instead struggle at it, in a whole new way (not something that could really be called an actual rehash). All in an optional secondary mission (but with its plenty of cutscenes - just optional away from main story).

 

This would also set a canon. If our Thane died in ME3, we don't have a protagonist that forms that closer relationship with Thane, especially after his death. If we don't recruit Thane in ME2, we have a protagonist that doesn't even know Thane and can't have a certain degree of choice about him.

 

Cool stuff could happen.

 

But its also so fetched that I can't outright go with it until we have info.

 

I admit I took this rather far. I was taking the Reapers being able to manipulate 'TIME and SPACE' to a very far extent. That we could enter a virtual world via indoctrination, that is able to 'read' or 'model' or whatever else... time itself and show us what is 'inevitable', thus getting people to believe in the Reapers completely. That the whole time we thought we were in the real world in a war, we were in a virtual world being harvested.

 

The next Mass Effect will be the 'definitive' Mass Effect, lol.

[chemiclord]

 

If Bioware had spent more time on the options available during the ending, giving a diverse range of possibilities (reminiscent of Dragon Age:Origins) but leaving the details up to the player, they could have saved themselves and the players a lot of grief, while facilitating the shift of focus in ME Next. Maybe if they had extended the release date like they did with DA:I?

 

All this is coming from someone with zero Videogame creating experience, so take with an unhealthy dose of salt. Feel free to correct me.

 

Maybe?  I guess?

 

I'm not entirely convinced that the fanbase they wound up with at the end of ME3 would really have accepted the text-based slideshow that Dragon Age: Origins concluded with (this is based on the implication that around 60% of the people who purchased ME3 did not play either of the previous games judging from only 40% of users having earned the Long Service achievement).  I don't want to say it WOULDN'T have worked, but I'm VERY dubious of it.  

 

I think a lot of the old-school veterans need to accept that the player base of the Mass Effect series shifted considerably from start to finish, and the group that was buying in by the end (assuming it was the Call of Duty and Gears of War sort of crowd), had become used to the cinematic feel.  It would really explain why Mass Effect steadily shrugged off the RPG clothes towards a more action style.

 

And while ME1 ended was good and all for the first installment of a trilogy... would you REALLY have thought it satisfactory for the final image of a trilogy?  I mean, if crawling out of the rubble is what makes the difference between **** and good, that's cutting an AWFULLY thin line, dontcha think?

 

Now, I know it's been a while since I've posted, so I don't want to come across as saying what Bioware ended with isn't hot garbage.  It was horrible, barely passable once all was said and done, but that's really the best I can say.  But I AM dubious that there was ANY ending Bioware could have done that would have satisfied much more than half the player base at any given time with the limitations they were facing.

[Pasquale1234]

I'm not entirely convinced that the fanbase they wound up with at the end of ME3 would really have accepted the text-based slideshow that Dragon Age: Origins concluded with (this is based on the implication that around 60% of the people who purchased ME3 did not play either of the previous games judging from only 40% of users having earned the Long Service achievement).  I don't want to say it WOULDN'T have worked, but I'm VERY dubious of it.  
 
I think a lot of the old-school veterans need to accept that the player base of the Mass Effect series shifted considerably from start to finish, and the group that was buying in by the end (assuming it was the Call of Duty and Gears of War sort of crowd), had become used to the cinematic feel.  It would really explain why Mass Effect steadily shrugged off the RPG clothes towards a more action style.

Yes, I'd say it's pretty clear that the games were targeted more and more toward shooter fans and less for RPGers. That's not to say you can't like both genres, and I'm sure that many people do. I do think it's unrealistic, though, to believe that you aren't going to lose some of the audience that came for the RPG when you strip away the elements that made ME1 an RPG.

[Reedirector]

Now, I know it's been a while since I've posted, so I don't want to come across as saying what Bioware ended with isn't hot garbage.  It was horrible, barely passable once all was said and done, but that's really the best I can say.  But I AM dubious that there was ANY ending Bioware could have done that would have satisfied much more than half the player base at any given time with the limitations they were facing.

 

Very true. I certainly couldn't have done better, so I really shouldn't be going on about it.

 

And it always seemed odd to me that people joined the series with ME2 and ME3. Personally, I've had The Witcher 2 for months and I'm still waiting for The Witcher 1 to go on offer so I can buy it 

[SwobyJ]

Very true. I certainly couldn't have done better, so I really shouldn't be going on about it.

 

And it always seemed odd to me that people joined the series with ME2 and ME3. Personally, I've had The Witcher 2 for months and I'm still waiting for The Witcher 1 to go on offer so I can buy it 

 

It seems most players (NOT TALKING ABOUT FANS) of ME3 started at ME3.

 

*shudder*

[Pasquale1234]

It seems most players (NOT TALKING ABOUT FANS) of ME3 started at ME3.

 

*shudder*

 

Maybe they came for the MP?
 

[SwobyJ]

Maybe they came for the MP?
 

 

Same happened for ME2, I think, though I can't remember where I found that.

 

I think Mass Effect still has the most people who follow along game-by-game compared to many other franchises, but it also still has the majority of players be new ones. Fans get upset at the 'having to make it easy for new players' aspect of things (especially writing), but it is a practical business reality.

[Valmar]

Same happened for ME2, I think, though I can't remember where I found that.

 

I actually was introduced to Mass Effect through ME2. I rented it on PS3 a few months after it was out. I knew NOTHING about it other than it had good reviews and that it had 3rd person shooting. I put off playing it for a long time because Im not usually a fan of 3rd person shooters. Finally decided to play it just to get it off my list. Wasn't expecting much. Beat the game, sent it back. Spent the next week or so thinking about how much fun it was, went out and bought the game and all its content. Never regretted it.

[Han Shot First]

It seems most players (NOT TALKING ABOUT FANS) of ME3 started at ME3.

 

*shudder*

 

I think that is true of a lot of games.

 

I wouldn't be surprised if most people who purchased DA:I had never played a prior DA game. When ME:Next releases, no doubt a good chuck of the players will be people who never played a Mass Effect game before as well.

[wolfhowwl]

It seems most players (NOT TALKING ABOUT FANS) of ME3 started at ME3.

 

*shudder*

 

If you want your sales to increase or even remain stable you're going to have bring lots of new people in.

[SwobyJ]

If you want your sales to increase or even remain stable you're going to have bring lots of new people in.

 

I'm not against that.

 

I wasn't '*shudder*' about Bioware, but '*shudder*' about being someone who started in a later game. It's so 'wrong'. lol

[themikefest]

I started playing ME2 on the ps3 and after finishing my first playthrough, I bought ME1 to play on the pc

[Daemul]

It seems most players (NOT TALKING ABOUT FANS) of ME3 started at ME3.

 

*shudder*

 

That happen's to every game series, and it's something that has to happen in order for a series to survive. You see, not many people actually play a game series through all the way from beginning to end, people always drop out and those people need to be replaced by newer players in order for sales to stay stable or increase.

 

Ever wonder why the sales of ME2 were similar to those of ME1, despite ME2 bringing a mass influx of new players to the series? For whatever reasons, many people didn't come back after playing ME1(I've been told the bad combat played a huge part, which is why Bioware focused on it above all when they started making ME2), and those people who came in with ME2 replaced them. Same thing with ME2, people left the series after ME2(the human reaper, the terrible plot and the supposed departure from what supposedly made ME1 great, pissed off a lot of people), some of them even made sure to tell BSN that they were leaving lol, and those people had to be replaced by new players who came in with ME3.

 

The group of people who play the first game in a series is never the same group of people who play the last game in a series. Never. Don't be surprised to hear that only like 20% of people who will play ME4, ever played ME1. 

[SwobyJ]

Yeah I'm well aware and won't be surprised. Or at least, not anymore.

 

I think for ME2 I understood, but ME3 was weird because I considered ME2-ME3 to be so close together in so many ways - release date, marketing, etc.

[Daemul]

Yeah I'm well aware and won't be surprised. Or at least, not anymore.

 

I think for ME2 I understood, but ME3 was weird because I considered ME2-ME3 to be so close together in so many ways - release date, marketing, etc.

 

Yeah, ME2 and ME3 are pretty one game, but yo, that human reaper and the focus on gameplay, you know, the most important part of a video game ^^, made people real salty lol. Casey Hudsons infamous "The characters are the plot" spiel didn't helps matters much either 

[Han Shot First]

 

The group of people who play the first game in a series is never the same group of people who play the last game in a series. Never. Don't be surprised to hear that only like 20% of people who will play ME4, ever played ME1. 

 

With ME4 you'll also be getting lots of players who were kids when ME1 was released. Assuming ME4 is 2016 release, that's roughly 9 years since ME1. 18 or 19 year olds who pick up ME4 will have been in elementary school when ME1 came out.