135 réponses à ce sujet

[Bruce Wayne]

Remember DA:O? Remember Connor? You could kill him to save Redcliffe. You could commit Isolde to a blood ritual to save him and Redcliffe. You could sell his soul to a Desire Demon. And of course you could save everyone. Remember Zathrian's Clan? You could feed them to werewolves as penance for their Keeper's crime. You could also ignore the werewolves and butcher them like the victims they were on behalf of Zathrian. Remember the Anvil of the Void? You could kill Caradin to preserve it damning countless more souls for the protection of Orzammar. Remember the City Elf Origin? It's basically fantasy Kill Bill Volume 1.  I can keep going, but you get the picture by now.

 

You know what people didn't like about Dragon Age 2? It wasn't that it was "too dark". It's that all the dark **** was happening to Hawke. Hawke was a douchebag at most. But definitely not "dark". 

 

Please bring it back. I don't want another Disney Sing-A-Long for the next Dragon Age game. Thank you.

[DomeWing333]

https://www.youtube....h?v=pqv_LUStxDw

[Bruce Wayne]

https://www.youtube....h?v=pqv_LUStxDw

 

You're hilarious. No, really. I'm not even being sarcastic. Thank you for your irrelevant contribution.

[Xilizhra]

What, committing mass murder if you side with the templars at the end of DA2 wasn't dark enough for you? Or even allowing Redcliffe and the mage rebellion to be enslaved and have their lives thrown away in DAI?

[Bruce Wayne]

What, committing mass murder if you side with the templars at the end of DA2 wasn't dark enough for you? Or even allowing Redcliffe and the mage rebellion to be enslaved and have their lives thrown away in DAI?

 

No. That's just politics. Don't turn this into yet another M-T puesdo-morality slugfest please.

[Xilizhra]

No. That's just politics. Don't turn this into yet another M-T puesdo-morality slugfest please.

So killing one is worse than killing hundreds? Well, as you wish.

[KaiserShep]

You forgot my personal favorite: messing with Cammen's head and sleeping with the girl he loves.

[Warden Commander Aeducan]

You forgot my personal favorite: messing with Cammen's head and sleeping with the girl he loves.

It could be the other way around tbh, if you played as female. You can instead messing with Cammen's head and sleep with him, but regardless their relationship is ruined because of you. 

[KaiserShep]

It could be other way around tbh, if you played as female.

I know, but doing it to Cammen is so much funnier, because you're pretty much breaking his lovelorn heart. I like that he runs away in despair.

[Warden Commander Aeducan]

I know, but doing it to Cammen is so much funnier, because you're pretty much breaking his lovelorn heart. I like that he runs away in despair.

Oh yeah, that was the best part of the quest if you go with that direction. Poor Cammen, oh well, at least in a way he entertains us.

[Bruce Wayne]

It's no big deal. Aeducan was just sampling the goods.

[Warden Commander Aeducan]

It's no big deal. Aeducan was just sampling the goods.

The fact that there are "just sampling the goods" dialogue available made it perfect. 

[Eliastion]

So killing one is worse than killing hundreds? Well, as you wish.

Not "worse", but definitely more personal. It's not that some decisions in DA:I couldn't have serious repercussions, but that you were never really involved in any of those.

Much better as a dark moment is Halamshiral where you can watch Celene getting murdered despite having knowledge and means to stop the assassination. But it's also relatively distant as, frankly, who likes Celene? Motivations of Isolde were much more understandable so killing her to save Connor and Redcliffe seemed to carry that much more weight (I still did it immediately, how many innocent people would die if I waited for mages from the Circle? That's the aspect of "save everyone" that really should be taken into account in DA:O: you delay the help by weeks, that's bound to have repercussions)

[o Ventus]

No. That's just politics. Don't turn this into yet another M-T puesdo-morality slugfest please.

"Dark", in the context you're using it, is inherently tied to morals.

 

You may as well be asking "let's discuss evolution, but can none of you bring up biology?"

[Bruce Wayne]

"Dark", in the context you're using it, is inherently tied to morals.

 

You may as well be asking "let's discuss evolution, but can none of you bring up biology?"

 

Either way siding with Mages or Templars isn't inherently 'dark' in either scenario. And I opened the topic up with examples of what I deemed 'dark'.

[o Ventus]

Either way siding with Mages or Templars isn't inherently 'dark' in either scenario. And I opened the topic up with examples of what I deemed 'dark'.

And what you deem 'dark' is irrelevant. If we went by that as a standard, then this entire discussion is stupid and meaningless since it would be at your arbitrary whim.

[Bruce Wayne]

Well then why are you posting if it's arbitrary. Keep your Disney inspired Thedas then. I guess the Witcher is the last hope for dark fantasy.

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

DA:I did feel too clean and sanitized in too many areas for me.

 

I think the problem perhaps is that while there are elements that could easily be dark, we always learn about it in a way that makes us emotionally distant from it all.

[Br3admax]

"People died at Haven...."

"Yeah......But Cory lost his entire army!"

"FUCKYEAHMUHINQUISITOR!"

 

*highfives all round 

[BabyPuncher]

It certainly needs to have deeper conflict. It needs to have fear, struggle, despair, and weakness, because those are the only things that can give courage, triumph, hope, and power any meaning. And unfortunately, the majority of characters in DA:I never seemed to face any of that at all, which I why I generally found them to be a rather dull bunch.

 

But 'darkness' is a very clumsy term for any of that. We don't want to imply that 'more suffering and failure' equates to 'more maturity and meaning,' which is simply nonsense, and incredibly childish nonsense at that.

[o Ventus]

Well then why are you posting if it's arbitrary. Keep your Disney inspired Thedas then. I guess the Witcher is the last hope for dark fantasy.

 

I came into this thread expecting to see an actual discussion, but no, it turned out to be a front for a Witcher thread. At least we got that out in the open now rather than letting it fester for several pages.

 

You also claim to know the problem people had with DA2 (and it has nothing to do with darkness, if you've bothered to actually read these boards), and totally ignore DAI. In DA2, Hawke's mother is killed and her severed head is sewn onto another woman's body, which itself is comprised of pieces from multiple people. After that, the local Chantry is blown up and hundreds of people are killed in what could be seen as an overt reference to the 9/11 attacks. How are either of those things not dark?

 

During the quest where you recruit mages in DAI, you see red lyrium growing from Fiona (and later in Emprise du Lion, the Red Templars kidnap people and force them to mine red lyrium, and become incubators for red lyrium themselves), Leliana is tortured to the point where her face looks gaunt and grossly malnourished, and your 2 chosen companions both die defending yourself and Dorian.  

 

But neither of those things are dark.

[Bruce Wayne]

I came into this thread expecting to see an actual discussion, but no, it turned out to be a front for a Witcher thread. At least we got that out in the open now rather than letting it fester for several pages.

 

You also claim to know the problem people had with DA2 (and it has nothing to do with darkness, if you've bothered to actually read these boards), and totally ignore DAI. In DA2, Hawke's mother is killed and her severed head is sewn onto another woman's body, which itself is comprised of pieces from multiple people. After that, the local Chantry is blown up and hundreds of people are killed in what could be seen as an overt reference to the 9/11 attacks. How are either of those things not dark?

 

During the quest where you recruit mages in DAI, you see red lyrium growing from Fiona (and later in Emprise du Lion, the Red Templars kidnap people and force them to mine red lyrium, and become incubators for red lyrium themselves), Leliana is tortured to the point where her face looks gaunt and grossly malnourished, and your 2 chosen companions both die defending yourself and Dorian.  

 

But neither of those things are dark.

 

Uh. Did you read the opening post? I didn't say Dragon Age 2 lacked darkness. I said that Hawke was the buttmonkey of said darkness. Do you lack reading comprehension skills? And it isn't a Witcher thread. It just seems that one IP is giving me what I want while another is progressively becoming sterilized. Maybe it's lack of inspiration or trying to please too many people that try too hard to get offended at video games.

[o Ventus]

Uh. Did you read the opening post? I didn't say Dragon Age 2 lacked darkness. I said that Hawke was the buttmonkey of said darkness. Do you lack reading comprehension skills? And it isn't a Witcher thread. It just seems that one IP is giving me what I want while another is progressively becoming sterilized. Maybe it's lack of inspiration or trying to please too many people that try too hard to get offended at video games.

It's funny you make a comment about reading when you claim, with a straight face, that people complain about Hawke being the target of the darkness in DA2, when that is most definitely NOT one of the big complaints. I'm guessing you haven't done much reading yourself if that's one of your selling points. But you signed up to this board 3 days ago and have less than 30 posts, so for all I know you're new.

 

The entire f**king point of DA2 is that Hawke is at the center. How one can play DA2 and not come to that conclusion is beyond me. It stands to reason that Hawke would be the target of whatever happens, because that's the entire premise.

 

I am rather fond of the way you say that DA is 'progressively becoming sterilized' (that's entirely untrue, but whatever), completely and totally ignoring the examples I gave above. Also the way you try and give reasons for your points, as though you're being clever. You'd make a good politician, the way you ignore points other people bring up, and resort to ad hominems, as in the bold.