132 réponses à ce sujet

[Vilegrim]

 

This video sums up pretty much everything I find wrong with the tone and 'colour' of inquisition, he's right, it is fantasy fluff, the grit, darkness and urgency have gone, the companions are 2 dimensional and flat, without the ambiguity of the DA:O companions, the choices don't seem to actually matter, their is no feeling of threat, even at what should be the darkest moments, the music takes on a epic rather than tragic tone, changing how I viewed them, from real danger to yet another little road bump.

[In Exile]

Brown is not grit, and DA:O was not dark. 

[X Equestris]

DAO wasn't very dark at all.

[Andraste_Reborn]

I'd argue that the DAI companions are just as ambiguous as people like Zevran and Sten. I mean, have you seen the forums fight over the morality of various actions taken by Blackwall or Sera or Vivienne or Iron Bull or ... well, most of them, really? And Leliana is still right there, and a much darker character than she was in DAO. (Even if you soften her, she's still been through a really bad time.)

 

I don't think any of our companions across the three games have been all good or all bad. Which is just how I like them. Bethany is probably the closest to an unambiguously good person, and look where that gets her. (I mean, Josephine is an adorable sweetheart, but there's still an iron fist in that diplomatic velvet glove when there needs to be. The diplomatic War Table options aren't all 'be nice to everyone.')

[Draining Dragon]

How dark does something need to be for people to accept it as "dark"?

Does it need to entirely consist of people murdering each other, sleeping with each other, or talking about murdering and sleeping with each other (Game of Thrones)?

Does it need to consist of an angry antiheroic type who walks around killing monsters and people who deserve it, while sleeping with every woman he meets and observing that humans are bastards (Witcher)?

Does it need to consist of a protagonist who utterly fails at being a hero, is driven out of his homeland, has his family systematically murdered, and is betrayed by like 50% of the people he meets? (Dragon Age 2)

[Vilegrim]

How dark does something need to be for people to accept it as "dark"?

Does it need to entirely consist of people murdering each other, sleeping with each other, or talking about murdering and sleeping with each other (Game of Thrones)?

Does it need to consist of an angry antiheroic type who walks around killing monsters and people who deserve it, while sleeping with every woman he meets and observing that humans are bastards (Witcher)?

Does it need to consist of a protagonist who utterly fails at being a hero, is driven out of his homeland, has his family systematically murdered, and is betrayed by like 50% of the people he meets? (Dragon Age 2)

 

 

it needs for a serious question about whether the protagonists in any other situation would be villains, if their wasn't a world ending super threat, would these guys be considered  well intentioned extremists?  Or have they jumped off the slippery slope?  I want their to be a serious question about what you do, and how you do it being reasonable (either to soft, or to hard depending on how you play), for 'are we doing the right thing?' being a question that actually needs thought.

[TheJediSaint]

Eh.  "Dark" is just a buzzword these days.  I prefer mature.

[Maconbar]

I might argue that DA:2 was the dark DA entry. You can't save a sibling. You can't save your mom. Your other sibling dies or is carried away. Your city falls to pieces. One of your companions becomes a terrorist. Finally you are forced to leave your new home and go into hiding.

[Mirth]

It's all about the music.

[AsheraII]

It has nothing to do with "darkness" or "grit". It's just the characters (both main characters/partymembers and the ones more in the background) that became rather policor.

[X Equestris]

I might argue that DA:2 was the dark DA entry. You can't save a sibling. You can't save your mom. Your other sibling dies or is carried away. Your city falls to pieces. One of your companions becomes a terrorist. Finally you are forced to leave your new home and go into hiding.

Yeah, if any game in the series is dark, it's DA2

[Giantdeathrobot]

I might argue that DA:2 was the dark DA entry. You can't save a sibling. You can't save your mom. Your other sibling dies or is carried away. Your city falls to pieces. One of your companions becomes a terrorist. Finally you are forced to leave your new home and go into hiding.

 

And many people (myself included) find that it comes across as forced, and that the lack of choice in the story eclipses any ''dark'' quality the story might have in itself.

[BraveVesperia]

I might argue that DA:2 was the dark DA entry. You can't save a sibling. You can't save your mom. Your other sibling dies or is carried away. Your city falls to pieces. One of your companions becomes a terrorist. Finally you are forced to leave your new home and go into hiding.

I agree. Just about everything that could go wrong, did go wrong in DA2. Hawke was constantly struggling against forces larger than themselves and misery seemed to strike everyone who lived in Kirkwall. Hell, the city itself was just one big blood ritual site. If that's not 'dark', I don't know what is. In DAO, we were able to achieve rather remarkable victories in most things we did (making peace between Dalish/werewolves and helping Connor via the Circle stand out). Not so much as DAI, but still a lot more positive than DA2.

 

Though people also complained that DA2 wasn't as 'dark' as DAO, so who knows.

[Dr. Rush]

Companions being flat is really the only thing that matters to me. Debating the level of "darkness" or being disappointed by a lack of meaningful consequences or divergence isn't anything new. But Bioware is the premier character developer. I don't even think Bioware makes story-driven games anymore, or have since the late 90s, Bioware has been making character-driven games. So for DAI companions to be so weak, that is something very odd and surprising for Bioware. 

 

Its funny, in the past I used to ask for Bioware to put more emphasis back on story and less on characters, since it seemed like characters were really monopolizing the focus of Bioware games, but now that I have seen DAI companions, I urge Bioware, go back to being a character-driven developer first and foremost. DAI felt so uninteresting to me because the majority of the cast and companions meant so little to me. 

[RVallant]

I love these videos, they describe everything, by that I mean they talk into a microphone, by that I mean they use their vocal chords that elicit sound waves towards a device that records...

 

Yeah.. Maybe it's the subtitles, but I can never read these videos without wishing for them to get to the point.

 

Anyone kind enough to provide a summary for those of us who are deaf? 

[In Exile]

How dark does something need to be for people to accept it as "dark"?

Does it need to entirely consist of people murdering each other, sleeping with each other, or talking about murdering and sleeping with each other (Game of Thrones)?

Does it need to consist of an angry antiheroic type who walks around killing monsters and people who deserve it, while sleeping with every woman he meets and observing that humans are bastards (Witcher)?

Does it need to consist of a protagonist who utterly fails at being a hero, is driven out of his homeland, has his family systematically murdered, and is betrayed by like 50% of the people he meets? (Dragon Age 2)

 

I think a story, to be "dark", needs to be dis-empowering in a lot of important ways. It can't just have less than ideal outcomes, and it can't just have violence. DA:O had a lot of visceral violence but it was an incredibly empowering experience for the protagonist and anything "bad" only happened at the insistence of the protagonist - you were an agent in it without question.

 

TW2 does dark a lot better, particularly in the Roche/Henselt Act 2 version. 

 

Companions being flat is really the only thing that matters to me. Debating the level of "darkness" or being disappointed by a lack of meaningful consequences or divergence isn't anything new. But Bioware is the premier character developer. I don't even think Bioware makes story-driven games anymore, or have since the late 90s, Bioware has been making character-driven games. So for DAI companions to be so weak, that is something very odd and surprising for Bioware. 

 

Its funny, in the past I used to ask for Bioware to put more emphasis back on story and less on characters, since it seemed like characters were really monopolizing the focus of Bioware games, but now that I have seen DAI companions, I urge Bioware, go back to being a character-driven developer first and foremost. DAI felt so uninteresting to me because the majority of the cast and companions meant so little to me. 

 

But, of course, this is incredibly subjective. I think DA:I has the best cast of characters in a DA game by far. 

[In Exile]

I wouldn't say DAO was dark in a horror/gore way that turns my stomach, but the story, atmosphere and situations were definitely dark compared to DAI.

 

I see DAO as the dark story of war and hopelessness that you have to change so that DAI becomes the hopefully, faith following world we see. Each story is set in a time where the situations make the story dark/light and DAI is after the 5th Blight so the darkness would definitely be lightened, but the suffering still hangs in the air, just not suffocating you like in DAO.

But the only difference is that DA:O doesn't say the Warden is a symbol of hope as much - there's nothing really dark about it. You go from one overwhelming victory to another, your antagonists crumble before you, and you suffer absolutely no setbacks in pursuit of your ultimate goal.

 

The only thing that happens that's different in DA:O, aside as I said above from you getting to pick coarser outcomes (which is not dark because it comes from your agency), is that the antagonist builds strength in the background before you get to the comically anti-dark "I Win!" button encounter at Denerim, where killing the archdemon causes the darkspawn to retreat with 0 subsequent conflict or damage to Ferleden.

If DA:O were "dark", then killing the AD would drive the darkspawn insane, and they'd raise Ferelden to the ground. That's dark.  

[Bizantura]

It's a north american game, it is all being about being a hero with subtle variations, never dark.

 

Previous games especialy DAO the compagnions had personalities and could be hetero, bi or whatever.  Now they hardly have personalities but their personal story is very relation and gender orientated.  It makes their personal story more shallower and one dimensional.  

 

To be fair I like all options in the orientation department available because I to have my preference but I could not care less about Dorian troubled homosexual past, transgender problems, the more kinky needy stuff that is ingame or the cute disney fluff.  It has allways been there in life and the toleration also cames and goes as with a lot of things in life.  But today that is the "important social correct stuff" but I rather have complex intriquing personalities for my money.

[In Exile]

It's more or less the atmosphere in my opinion that makes it darker because of the plot created for it. The terrible things done to people by the Darkspawn, the Broodmother and even the whole Joining is a bit heavier. 

 

DAI is after the Blight and though you are dealing with a Darkspawn, it's more or less feels like you are cleaning up the world after the Blight ended, and I feel the Wardens got majorly shafted in DAI. Lol I feel so bad for them after finally regaining their name after the Dryden/Loghain mess and then they turn in DAI. I always try and help them after Adamant.

 

I have to say that I am more attached to the DAI characters though, unlike the other DA games. They feel much less one-dimensional to me compared to others in past games (not all, but a few).

 

To me darkness is about agency. The Warden and the Inquisitor are what you might call "super" agents - everything about the world bends to their will, and they can change the fate of people, nations and societies at a whim. DA:O had more visceral visuals - and especially more body horror. But that's the only difference. Red lyrium mutating humans into crystal, driving them slowly insane in slave camps and gardens is, IMO, every bit as dark as the darkspawn underground rape pits. It's exactly the same idea. But DA:I doesn't have the same level of body horror - so to some people this is less dark. I can accept that part of it - I understand that to some people the level of body horror correlates with darkness.

 

The difference for me is just that as long as the protagonist is empowered, the game isn't dark. 

[ThreeF]

opinions

 

But, of course, this is incredibly subjective. I think DA:I has the best cast of characters in a DA game by far. 

 

Same here. I like how the companions are written in DAI, in some ways imo they are better done than in previous games. In DAO I only found Alistair and Morrigan to be of any notice, in DAI all companions stand out to the point where people think that there are more of them (when actually they are the same number 9).

 

DAO was brown and sometimes purple, it had its moment, but overall I didn't found the grittiness to be convincing enough to care.  DAO has a typical fantasy fluff story with somewhat watered down plot because it's a game. 

 

DAI has its moments too, it may be visually more sanitized (no throwing rape and such in your face) but I've found the desolation of Exalted Plains to be on  the point, the Winter Palace depressing and gory, the "Game" horrifying and Envy segment creepy in a way that finally didn't  remind me of B horror movie.

 

Both games approach things differently, I wouldn't say that one does it better than other.

[In Exile]

I think it's a good change though. Too much of the same dark vibe can get repetitive. I loved the idea that DAI took a different approach to that and granted us open worlds to explore. I felt more like a true adventurer and hero, and it was fun to see what had become of all the places I visited in DAO. Especially the comments my companions make about the Windmill in Redcliffe. It's the same one from DAO when we saved it from the walking dead.

 

I do agree about the Templars, and I found the future world very grim as well as the burning the dead bodies in the pits. I think seeing the flooded town with all the bodies from the Blight was also pretty bleak. It has its moments too, but like you said body horror was most likely the part that made DAO more gritty. If people read some of the codex in DAI though, it's not pretty.

 

Lol I think for me DAO had not one blue sky so that alone made it feel gloomy.

 

Gloomy is a great word. That really captures a lot of what I felt about DA:O in terms of the atmosphere, but I don't actually like that aesthetic. I quite enjoyed the bright, light-hearted vistas. I didn't realize about the windmill - that's a good point.

[Ashagar]

I always found what you've been told, read or just plan implied to be vastly darker than anything that any movie or game can throw at you visually and there is a lot of all of the above done instead of just trying to beat you over the head with it like many games do.

 

Though as far as creepy and disturbing I found the nightmare and envy demon to vastly more disturbing than anything that the last two games threw at me not just in their appearance and their fade realms but their very concept and what it implies to be disturbing.