45 réponses à ce sujet

[Boost32]

Something is bugging me off, while Anora codex says her suname is Mac Tir, all her letters to the Inquisition are signed as Anora Theirin, even if she is Married to the Warden, somene know why? Is it a overlook or there is another explanation?

[I WANT YOU TO FUCK ME JERY]

If she's not married to Alistair, her being called Anora Theirin is probably an oversight, or a bug. 

[MoonDrummer]

Trying to give her hold of the throne some legitimacy?

[Boost32]

Trying to give her hold of the throne some legitimacy?

But why she would need legitimacy? She was appointed as queen reignant by the Landsmeet, her codex says she had the support of nobility ( at least until the Venatori took over Redcliff) and in my game she is married to a Cousland.

[MoonDrummer]

But why she would need legitimacy? She was appointed as queen reignant by the Landsmeet, her codex says she had the support of nobility ( at least until the Venatori took over Redcliff) and in my game she is married to a Cousland.

Maybe she just never bothered filling out the papers when Cailan died

[Addai]

When you're talking to her at Eamon's estate before the Landsmeet, she says her weakness is that she doesn't have Theirin blood. I assume she's trying to appropriate the Theirin legacy by her marriage to Cailan. The legacy of Calenhad is a BFD to some people in Ferelden.

[riverbanks]

Anora is still Cailan's widow. She has the right to wear the name her husband left her.

[Boost32]

Anora is still Cailan's widow. She has the right to wear the name her husband left her.

But she has the right even if she marries another man?

 

Aveline changed the Vallen to Hendyr when she married Donnic.

[riverbanks]

But she has the right even if she marries another man?

 

No, obviously if she marries Cousland and still shows up as Theirin, it's a flag bug. I actually don't like that she's not allowed to just be Mac Tir, to wear her own name, but if she wears Cailan's/Alistair's for the political weight of it, then it's only fair she should wear Cousland's too.

 

Considering Morrigan still talks about raising her child with the love of her life in my game, where my Warden was female and the dark ritual was not done at all, I'm not even surprised by all these plot coherence bugs anymore.

[M-Taylor]

No, obviously if she marries Cousland and still shows up as Theirin, it's a flag bug. I actually don't like that she's not allowed to just be Mac Tir, to wear her own name, but if she wears Cailan's/Alistair's for the political weight of it, then it's only fair she should wear Cousland's too.

 

Considering Morrigan still talks about raising her child with the love of her life in my game, where my Warden was female and the dark ritual was not done at all, I'm not even surprised by all these plot coherence bugs anymore.

 

Cousland is King-Consort, and it's stated in the Human Origins that nobles only accept surnames that are higher in the hierarchical chain. She claimed the throne through her own ambition and made it painfully clear that the Cousland would have absolutely no power over her; she would be Anora Mac Tir, definitely not Anora Cousland.

[TK514]

Cousland is King-Consort, and it's stated in the Human Origins that nobles only accept surnames that are higher in the hierarchical chain. She claimed the throne through her own ambition and made it painfully clear that the Cousland would have absolutely no power over her; she would be Anora Mac Tir, definitely not Anora Cousland.

With this rationale, she would still be Anora Theirin, since Theirin trumps Mac Tir in the pecking order and she was legally a Theirin by marriage.

[riverbanks]

Cousland is King-Consort, and it's stated in the Human Origins that nobles only accept surnames that are higher in the hierarchical chain. She claimed the throne through her own ambition and made it painfully clear that the Cousland would have absolutely no power over her; she would be Anora Mac Tir, definitely not Anora Cousland.

 

I can appreciate that, and as I said, I would prefer that Anora be allowed to wear her own name, rather than that of whatever new political artifice she marries. But I can also see the point of male Cousland players who would like to see her take their name. If she has to use someone else's name, it's a fair wish for them that she uses the Cousland name as well, even if she was always clear that she would be the one in charge and he was just there for decoration.

 

I'd still rather her just be Anora Mac Tir above all else, but that's just my personal preference, and we all have them - Cousland players are allowed that too.

[In Exile]

If she's not married to Alistair, her being called Anora Theirin is probably an oversight, or a bug. 

 

She should still be a Theirin given her prior marriage to Cailan. It's not like it would be wise to reclaim the name of a disgraced traitor. 

[Boost32]

She should still be a Theirin given her prior marriage to Cailan. It's not like it would be wise to reclaim the name of a disgraced traitor. 

But shouldnt she lose the Theirin Surname when she marries the Warden?

[GenericEnemy]

But shouldnt she lose the Theirin Surname when she marries the Warden?

 

A Warden who marries Anora is Prince-Consort, not the King. So, I'm guessing no. 

[Boost32]

A Warden who marries Anora is Prince-Consort, not the King. So, I'm guessing no. 

But the surname Theirin came from her marriage with Caillan, when she marries another man she has the right to keep her late husband surname? I really dont know how those things work =/

[M-Taylor]

With this rationale, she would still be Anora Therin, since Therin trumps Mac Tir in the pecking order and she was legally a Therin by marriage.

 But the claimant of being a Therin died with Cailan. If she had born an heir and was Queen Regent for her child, I could appreciate her valid reasons for trying to emit her power claimant through the Therin line, but that's hypothetical.

 

She annoyingly states multiple times that she's claiming the throne through sheer will and effiency, and will do so in her own name. For her to try and wrangle any use out of her late husbands name doesn't make any sense. If she enforced the right of Therin to rule, she's effectively supersceding her claim to the throne to Alistair. She'd be poltically blowing up her own argument.

[M-Taylor]

But the surname Theirin came from her marriage with Caillan, when she marries another man she has the right to keep her late husband surname? I really dont know how those things work =/

 

Well, it depends. Thedas isn't patriachal, and we're told in the human noble origin that if a noble marries to a family lower in status, they keep their family name. The name seems to ignore gender and is based entirely on political status.

 

Mac Tir, if a male Cousland has married Anora, is higher ranking than Coulsland. I don't see her using the Cousland name in any scenario.

[TK514]

I suppose it depends on your point of view.  It could be argued that 'in her own name' means whatever name she officially chooses, since any surname she would come up with would be associated with a male in her life.  Cousland from consort, Theirin from husband, and Mac Tir from father.  Particularly in the period directly after the Blight, the one least likely to be on everyone's lips would be Cailan, since he died a year previous, and the other two are recent big news.

 

 

 

Well, it depends. Thedas isn't patriachal, and we're told in the human noble origin that if a noble marries to a family lower in status, they keep their family name. The name seems to ignore gender and is based entirely on political status.

 

Mac Tir, if a male Cousland has married Anora, is higher ranking than Coulsland. I don't see her using the Cousland name in any scenario.

 

Mac Tir is defininitely not higher than Cousland.  Before the Blight, they were equal, and after, the Mac Tirs were stripped of their lands and titles because Loghain was a traitor.  That's pretty much the last name anyone would accept, especially directly post- Blight.

[Boost32]

Well, it depends. Thedas isn't patriachal, and we're told in the human noble origin that if a noble marries to a family lower in status, they keep their family name. The name seems to ignore gender and is based entirely on political status.

 

Mac Tir, if a male Cousland has married Anora, is higher ranking than Coulsland. I don't see her using the Cousland name in any scenario.

While I agree with you, I was asking if she has the right to still use the Theirin surname after she marries the Warden, in this case I think she should be Anora Mac Tir (sorry if its sounded agressive, not my intention).

 

And there is a case in Thedas where a family of higher status changed their surname to the lower one after they married, the second dinastie of the Pentaghast were born after one of them married the daugther of the last Van Markhan King.

[M-Taylor]

Mac Tir is defininitely not higher than Cousland.  Before the Blight, they were equal, and after, the Mac Tirs were stripped of their lands and titles because Loghain was a traitor.  That's pretty much the last name anyone would accept, especially directly post- Blight.

 

It depends on the scenario.

 

If Alistair is made sole king, certainly. Mac Tir's are disgraced.

 

If Alistair and Anora rule together, Mac Tir's are likely socially awkward to mention.

 

If Anora is the sole queen, epsecially with Loghain survivng, then I disagree. One Mac Tir has been disgraced and has had his land stripped from him, but that does not include Anora in that. The daughter of a maybe-traitor (again, this scenario is entirely dictated to the manner of Loghain's redemption. If he dies to the Archdemon, I imagine the Mac Tir's are flying high again after Fereldan being saved by Loghain once again) does not directly dictate that her family name is reduced to dirt. It may incidentally influence the opinion on her family, but clearly not enough to remove her entirely from power.

 

She voices it herself at the Landsmeet in a bid for the throne. She is the daughter of Fereldans' greatest general. I don't seeher arguing that if Loghain's memory was totally sullied; why would she? I would imagine she's astute enough to avoid mentioning her Mac Tir heritage completely if it would damage her claim to the throne at all, but no, she voices it as a reason to put her on the throne.

This just infers to me that I personally see the Mac Tir family is not disgraced with Anora in power. She's politically savvy enough to swing Loghain's behaviour into desperate measures and redeem her family name. So yeah, I don't buy that they'd be lower than any family. Hell, they're the ruling family. The cannot literally get any higher.

 

 

While I agree with you, I was asking if she has the right to still use the Theirin surname after she marries the Warden, in this case I think she should be Anora Mac Tir (sorry if its sounded agressive, not my intention).

 

No, I agree with you. I don't personally see her using the Therin name as plausabile, and her doing could be politically damaging since it indirectly says her power is through her Therin connection. Would be highly awkward, considering she'd executed the last (known) Therin that vastly superceded her in right to rule through the Therin line, haha.

 

Hopefully it's just a bug and she should be called Anora Mac Tir. If not, then... how unpleasant for Cousland Kings. His own wife using her late husbands name, that's rough man. D:

[Monica21]

No, I agree with you. I don't personally see her using the Therin name as plausabile, and her doing could be politically damaging since it indirectly says her power is through her Therin connection. Would be highly awkward, considering she'd executed the last (known) Therin that vastly superceded her in right to rule through the Therin line, haha.

 

Hopefully it's just a bug and she should be called Anora Mac Tir. If not, then... how unpleasant for Cousland Kings. His own wife using her late husbands name, that's rough man. D:

 

If Anora marries a male Cousland that does not mean Alistair is executed, if that's what you mean. He's more likely to be drunk in The Hanged Man.

 

And as for the last name business, well, a male Warden can just, you know, get over it, and I guess have to live with being King-Consort.

[Eliastion]

I think you take "ruling in her own name" too literally. It has nothing to do with names, it's all about ruling as herself, not using authority of her husband. So this argument has no weight.

Basically, assuming Cousland's name seems the least probable. She is a queen and he is her husband - whatever name she sticks to, Couslands are lower in hierarchy as king>teyrn and while she is the former (though female king is called queen) the Cousland Warden is the first-in-line to be a teyrn. The hierarchy is obvious.

Now as to the question stated in thread name - it most likely boils down to custom. It could just as well be that once changed surname generally remains in the new form (so she would be Theirin) with a custom of using surnames of birth when it comes to giving titles to biographical info.

Basically, the problem is that we know little of Ferelden customs in this matter - perhaps going back to maiden name after husband's death would be an insult to him/his family and insulting Theirins' name is something Anora just couldn't do. I generally think that sticking to Theirin (it is her name after those 5 years of marriage, regardless of what anyone would say) would be the most natural, but without more knowledge of Ferelden naming customs we can't really settle this dispute.

[Bayonet Hipshot]

Its Anora Cousland. Other names can go home. 

[Boost32]

I think you take "ruling in her own name" too literally. It has nothing to do with names, it's all about ruling as herself, not using authority of her husband. So this argument has no weight.

Basically, assuming Cousland's name seems the least probable. She is a queen and he is her husband - whatever name she sticks to, Couslands are lower in hierarchy as king>teyrn and while she is the former (though female king is called queen) the Cousland Warden is the first-in-line to be a teyrn. The hierarchy is obvious.

Now as to the question stated in thread name - it most likely boils down to custom. It could just as well be that once changed surname generally remains in the new form (so she would be Theirin) with a custom of using surnames of birth when it comes to giving titles to biographical info.

Basically, the problem is that we know little of Ferelden customs in this matter - perhaps going back to maiden name after husband's death would be an insult to him/his family and insulting Theirins' name is something Anora just couldn't do. I generally think that sticking to Theirin (it is her name after those 5 years of marriage, regardless of what anyone would say) would be the most natural, but without more knowledge of Ferelden naming customs we can't really settle this dispute.

I can understand if she is single, but why keep the Theirin if she is married to the Warden? Im not saying she should use Cousland, but being married to another man and using the surname of her late husband seem rather strange, specially since her new marriage is lasting more than her older one.