Thedas has unlimited magic you just need to be powerful enough and you can turn the world upside down...that will never be the case in the real world
Thedas is a fantasy setting and should not be mixed up with the real world. It needs to be viewed on its own for what it is.
Thedas has unlimited magic you just need to be powerful enough and you can turn the world upside down...that will never be the case in the real world
Thedas is a fantasy setting and should not be mixed up with the real world. It needs to be viewed on its own for what it is.
Did you ever come across Eleni Zenovia when you played DAO? If you haven't, she's an ancient Tevinter prophetess who was encased in stone by an Archon whose house she prophesied would fall. It came to pass and she ended up in Kinloch Hold ages later, where you find her. She says she will endure until "...the Maker lights their fires again." Mike Laidlaw has said that there is something to these prophesies, they are not completely random. http://forum.bioware...ovia/?bioware=1
I think you could interpret this as the most direct evidence we have for the Maker's existence.
Did you ever come across Eleni Zenovia when you played DAO? If you haven't, she's an ancient Tevinter prophetess who was encased in stone by an Archon whose house she prophesied would fall. It came to pass and she ended up in Kinloch Hold ages later, where you find her. She says she will endure until "...the Maker lights their fires again." Mike Laidlaw has said that there is something to these prophesies, they are not random. http://forum.bioware...ovia/?bioware=1
I think you could interpret this as the most direct evidence we have for the Maker's existence.
Amazing...I actually forgot this from DAO
Amazing...I actually forgot this from DAO
I did too. It just dawned on me after reading this thread and I went looking into it. She says other things in Witch Hunt, like about "the prison being breached" when there are veil tears nearby and she speaks of the lights of Arlathan and the eluvians...all very interesting.
Edit: I also edited my post to more directly reflect Mike Laidlaw's statement; her prophesies are not "completely random".
Did you ever come across Eleni Zenovia when you played DAO? If you haven't, she's an ancient Tevinter prophetess who was encased in stone by an Archon whose house she prophesied would fall. It came to pass and she ended up in Kinloch Hold ages later, where you find her. She says she will endure until "...the Maker lights their fires again." Mike Laidlaw has said that there is something to these prophesies, they are not completely random. http://forum.bioware...ovia/?bioware=1
I think you could interpret this as the most direct evidence we have for the Maker's existence.
That... is actually pretty cool. I've always been a bit ambivalent on the matter. I'd like to think the Maker is real in Thedas, in some form, because I find that interesting. On the other hand, I think the attention given to the question by fans is over the top and the answer doesn't really matter.
To the OP:
Well, perhaps the Maker is acting, just not in obvious ways. Or not. Deists have no trouble believing in a God that set things in motion and then stood aside, not interfering. Solas likes the idea himself, indicating that its not all sunshine and rainbows when gods feel the need to throw their weight around. Andrastians believe the world is in its sorry state because mortals have made it so. That's free will for ya, you have to sleep in the bed you made. But the Maker will come back and help us once we convince him we're not hopeless screwups through the power and majesty of song(Andrastianism in a nutshell).
Why create the world? Well the Andrastians say it was because the spirits were so disappointing and he wanted more original thinkers. I guess he was bored.
Do remember of course, that while the 'maker' may exist, it may not be a god. I refer back to my previous post.
Without Thedas, where would the Mabari go?
In lore, they specifically say the Maker left due to various reasons. The first time because he was not being worshipped. The second because humans killed Andraste.
Personally there have been many entities tied to the events that are credited to the maker. So I don't think there is a single being that be credited as the maker.
In lore, they specifically say the Maker left due to various reasons. The first time because he was not being worshipped. The second because humans killed Andraste.
Personally there have been many entities tied to the events that are credited to the maker. So I don't think there is a single being that be credited as the maker.
But the video above is calling out the Maker Specifically. Also Cole and Solas have this banter:
That... is actually pretty cool. I've always been a bit ambivalent on the matter. I'd like to think the Maker is real in Thedas, in some form, because I find that interesting. On the other hand, I think the attention given to the question by fans is over the top and the answer doesn't really matter.
To the OP:
Well, perhaps the Maker is acting, just not in obvious ways. Or not. Deists have no trouble believing in a God that set things in motion and then stood aside, not interfering. Solas likes the idea himself, indicating that its not all sunshine and rainbows when gods feel the need to throw their weight around. Andrastians believe the world is in its sorry state because mortals have made it so. That's free will for ya, you have to sleep in the bed you made. But the Maker will come back and help us once we convince him we're not hopeless screwups through the power and majesty of song(Andrastianism in a nutshell).
Why create the world? Well the Andrastians say it was because the spirits were so disappointing and he wanted more original thinkers. I guess he was bored.
I'm agnostic about the Maker, myself. Most of my characters have been agnostic, but with DAI I've started playing faithful characters (an Andrastian in my first run, a Dalish believer in my current one). I enjoy that the Maker's existence isn't explicit because it allows me to explore different points of view. I do find Eleni Zenovia's prophecies captivating, expect they will come to pass, and that there will still be plenty of discussion (argument) among fans as to their interpretation.
To take on my Andrastian Inquisitor's point of view for a moment, humanity is in a slave mentality, expecting the Maker to swoop in like a mother hen and help them get along and stop hurting each other. This arrangement would hamper their free will and keep them in a childlike state. He wants to be partners, not a babysitter. The Chant of Light is the best way to elevate humanity to a higher level of consciousness, and when that day comes, the Maker will return. Conversely, my Dalish Inquisitor refuses to forget the captive Creators and dares to dream that one day the Dalish will rise again and free the gods from their prison, so they can once again live among the Elvhen. She doesn't believe in the Maker at all.
Did you ever come across Eleni Zenovia when you played DAO? If you haven't, she's an ancient Tevinter prophetess who was encased in stone by an Archon whose house she prophesied would fall. It came to pass and she ended up in Kinloch Hold ages later, where you find her. She says she will endure until "...the Maker lights their fires again." Mike Laidlaw has said that there is something to these prophesies, they are not completely random. http://forum.bioware...ovia/?bioware=1
I think you could interpret this as the most direct evidence we have for the Maker's existence.
I think it's evidence that Eleni Zinovia believes in the Maker, rather than serving as evidence that the Maker exists. She thinks the Maker is involved in an event that will happen. It's similar to how Andrastians interpret the protagonist to be the 'Herald of Andraste', and think what happened at the Urn of Sacred Ashes and Haven is a result of the 'divine hand' of the Maker, which colors how they view these events that transpired.
I think it's evidence that Eleni Zinovia believes in the Maker, rather than serving as evidence that the Maker exists. She thinks the Maker is involved in an event that will happen. It's similar to how Andrastians interpret the protagonist to be the 'Herald of Andraste', and think what happened at the Urn of Sacred Ashes and Haven is a result of the 'divine hand' of the Maker, which colors how they view these events that transpired.
I think that's a valid interpretation. She is the remnant of a mortal, and so is going to speak in the language of her culture.
I think the lights she speaks of are the lights of Arlathan that she speaks of in Witch Hunt. What that means, I don't know, but my feeling is that all these gods are more interconnected than it appears.
It is probably going to take another 10 years before we see enough DA games to allow us understand this world
That is assuming there is a maker OP. Who says there is.
You're of course assuming the Maker exists.
All the evidence, Corypheus first trip to the fade, the elven gods (Flemeth and Solas) seems to indicate otherwise.
I think the Maker is just an example of mankinds desire for life to have a purpose beyond mere existence and a group (the Chantry) taking advantage of that desire.
I think it's evidence that Eleni Zinovia believes in the Maker, rather than serving as evidence that the Maker exists. She thinks the Maker is involved in an event that will happen. It's similar to how Andrastians interpret the protagonist to be the 'Herald of Andraste', and think what happened at the Urn of Sacred Ashes and Haven is a result of the 'divine hand' of the Maker, which colors how they view these events that transpired.
It was certainly in the tone of prophesy and I honestly think it was though that doesn't mean the maker will appear in game unless its at the end of the last dragon age game. It helps that that the led designer stated that Eleni Zinonvia's prophesies have something to them and aren't just random and that she foretold what Corpyheus was going to do.
I have three ideas.
A) He doesn't exist.
B)To see if he could.
C)For cookies. Because he couldn't create cookies but he could create a world with mortals who would eventually be able to create cookies. He really wanted dem cookies.
I am mostly torn between A and C.
It was certainly in the tone of prophesy and I honestly think it was though that doesn't mean the maker will appear in game unless its at the end of the last dragon age game. It helps that that the led designer stated that Eleni Zinonvia's prophesies have something to them and aren't just random and that she foretold what Corpyheus was going to do.
The only thing that's certain in Dragon Age is that Bioware will NEVER reveal if the Maker exists or not.
Why did God create the Earth?
http://biblegateway.com < The answer is somewhere in here. I'd recommend using the King James Version and starting at Genesis 1:1.
Seriously though, we're talking about the fictional world of Thedas here, not the real world.
If I'm not mistaken, David Gaider said they would never answer whether or not the Maker exists. I think it stands to reason that they'll never answer why the Maker created Thedas, either. It is up to each character, and each player, to decide for themselves.
Personally, I really like it that way. It makes Thedas, and the people in it, much more relatable.
I completely agree. I like that it is up to each character to decide without having to submit to the developers like some other RPG's, makes it much more interesting.
If the devs really wanted us to forget about the Maker...they would not have Cassandra invoking his name every third sentence
Guest_StreetMagic_*
Assuming the Maker exists, then the mythology in the Chant of Light is clear why it was created. He was bored with the firstborn/spirits. Like the biblical stories, he set out to create beings in his own image. Little "makers". People who had creativity, and weren't static or represented limited quality and expression like the Spirits do.
Then that plan went wrong too. Because creative people are sometimes dicks.
Assuming the Maker exists, then the mythology in the Chant of Light is clear why it was created. He was bored with the firstborn/spirits. Like the biblical stories, he set out to create beings in his own image. Little "makers". People who had creativity, and weren't static or represented limited quality and expression like the Spirits do.
Then that plan went wrong too. Because creative people are sometimes dicks.
It's an allegory to warn us of the danger of reality TV.
Guest_StreetMagic_*
It's an allegory to warn us of the danger of reality TV.
Hmm.. maybe the bible was about that too, all along. 
My position on this is that the Maker exists.
But he is not like he is regularly believed as.
Yet perhaps this kind of belief in him may be tied to how he exists.
I'm getting a 'it exists because we have faith in it, so we make it happen' sort of vibe about the Maker and a lot of what feels like the 'blue lyrium' side of things.
I also think that there is more going on than the Maker, even as he may be the most singularly powerful (yet also abstractly understood) entity in the DA setting.
We may never know if he exists and in what exact way, but I think that's the nature of him.
Ultimately, I view him as a force. The details of that force is not yet known. The Andrastan Chantry itself may always be debated on whether it is a lie or truth, at the core of itself at least.
We may always take sides on whether it is just a type of magic at play when it comes to anything Andrastan/Maker, or that the magic itself is sourced from the Maker and/or his works. I guess I take a sort of middle ground, where I think that there was a Making force to Thedas+the Fade+etc, but it is more the belief in the Maker that comes to form the 'Maker' we 'know' today. That as people anthropomorphized a particularly powerful Spirit, it gained more and more understanding of us and became what we hoped/wished/feared he would be.
I find it hard to believe that the DA setting was fashioned by a cosmic man, but I can believe that a more abstract chaotic entity eventually brought order and logic (of a sorts) to the earliest known version of magic (aka the 'matter' of DA), eventually created spirits, and from that, made mortals (perhaps in the shape of the Maker+spirits). Feedback loop of dreams and magic and fears and hopes and thoughts etc etc, made the Maker more and more 'human'. But in this transformation, we also see the results through more and more spiteful (though sometimes empathetic) actions of him.
Basically, I think the Maker is not really the Maker, but we call him that so he kinda is.
So I guess the Maker doesn't exist. Or he kinda does. Or its just complicated, so I just go 'this series is about magic' about everything, in the end. Anyway.
The theme is hope, faith, that sort of thing. In this sort of way, the 'existence' of the Maker (existence in a way we understand 'physicality') does not really matter. Or it does, but more on our end - how tied to the mortal realm do you want to be? The more or less you are, the more or less you may regard the Maker as real. Or not, since many spirits are not concerned with Maker stuff in the least. But at least you'd be more open to him.
I do think there was a creative force to the DA setting. Whether to call it a Maker... may be appropriate enough for the current times (of Thedas), but may not have been the right way to describe it 1000s-10,000s of years ago. Recall the subjectivity about even just the elven 'gods', subjectivity that Inquisition often described and pointed out, perhaps is if they wanted us to understand how things really may work in Thedas, and even in Bioware stories and settings from here on (IMO).
This was a lot of rambling and contradictory opinions, but that's just how I tend to think about this topic. There is no definite answer, and there may never be.
Bioware may be hinting some things about the Maker when they employ mirror imagery too. And the latest introduction of time magic.
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