26 réponses à ce sujet

[Puffy9999]

So hitting 9200dps on perilous when I pull off the Horn of Valor- Wrath-Spell Purge combo. Level 15

Is that splash stat accurate? I assume it is a combo of all hit enemies?

 

Going to add Unbowed for the fallback or D move. 16

 

We had two Templars, a Reaver and a Hunter.

 

With Demons the Templar really excels.

 

I don't believe I have seen 9200 dps/hit on the other classes I have played.?

 

Why are there not more Templars, especially since Perilous is Demons or Templars usually.

 

 

Shield of the Emp

Thunderstrike- Sup Lightening

Unigue Crit

5 Heal

Blue Stam

[DrakeHasNoFlow]

Because she doesn't have the same survivability, and aggro generating abilities as the dwarf, and her ability combo isn't as strong against the templar and venatori. Shield wall can drain your stamina pretty fast against the other two factions, and she needs it for her wombo combo. Also,Try her wombo combo on the brutes, and RTC They will just shake it off and laugh in your face.

[russ4ua16]

DPS generally refers to sustained damage. I think what you’re talking about is 9200 burst damage 

[actionhero112]

I agree it's hard to say no to instant AoE death every 10-20 seconds.

 

I think most people don't play her because the combo requires mechanical know how, and that's not something everyone has access to. Also when people see warrior they think tank, and the templar is not a tank. She's a unique type of AoE damager. 

 

Essentially she doesn't fill the same role as the lego so it's hard to compare them. You can have both on one team and have no redundancy. 

[Altruismo]

DPS generally refers to sustained damage. I think what you’re talking about is 9200 burst damage 

 

He's probably talking about the damage output "per pull" for a Templar run through Demons on Perilous, and ending up with an average of 9200DPS. Front-loaded damage is really significant for DPS figures when it's as much, or more than the target's health, and Templars have front-loaded damage in buckets with the combo.

The spikes from the combo actually artificially inflate the "real" damage, because it can be so much more than he needs to do - ie. You hit 6 guys for 5k damage, that's 30k damage... but they only had 3.5k each so 21k would have done the trick. But the ability to deal that damage is still relevant for bigger demons, bosses, etc. It's also close to a best case scenario where the Templar is hitting a LOT of targets with the combo.

 

Because she doesn't have the same survivability, and aggro generating abilities as the dwarf, and her ability combo isn't as strong against the templar and venatori. Shield wall can drain your stamina pretty fast against the other two factions, and she needs it for her wombo combo. Also,Try her wombo combo on the brutes, and RTC They will just shake it off and laugh in your face.

 

A Templar does not need Shield Wall at all, and Legionnaires with top of the line gear do way more damage than people give them credit for.

[Reman]

Templar and Lego isn't a good comparison IMO. 

 

The templar simply doesn't have the threat and aggro capability and survivability of the lego. 

 

They're more of off-tanks/ AoE nukers, with some optional buffs tbh.

[Drasca]

What Reman says is true. However, the AoE nuke more than makes up for the direct surviveability. Who needs constant invincibility when everything is dead?

 

For me at end game gear, I can do up to 14-18k AoE Spirit damage when there's spirit vulnerable enemies around.

 

Venatori: Only Brutes and the Commander left

Templar: Only Red Knights and the Commander

 

Everything else dies to the W/P blast, due to caliban, attack rings, promotes, build etc.

[Reman]

What Reman says is true. However, the AoE nuke more than makes up for the direct surviveability. Who needs constant invincibility when everything is dead?

 

For me at end game gear, I can do up to 14-18k AoE Spirit damage when there's spirit vulnerable enemies around.

 

Venatori: Only Brutes and the Commander left

Templar: Only Red Knights and the Commander

 

Everything else dies to the W/P blast, due to caliban, attack rings, promotes, build etc.

While all of that is true, you still have to be at close range for this, and archers/mages do have a nasty habit of running away ( not to mention the damn wraiths >.> )

 

Still not as risky as reaver, but def. viable to use. People who complain about the Templar's defensive capability do not see past the sword and shield. 

 

Have a keeper slap a barrier on you, and you're golden. 

[Altruismo]

Everything else dies to the W/P blast, due to caliban, attack rings, promotes, build etc.

 

Kind of off topic, but you've got like 80+ in willpower promotes, right?

Wouldn't you get more benefit from say, an enhanced Horn of Valor ring or a +crit% which is multiplicative with your attack%, than you do with another +10% attack?

[Drasca]

Archers are no problem due to pathing, Approach them in a J pattern, or lure --> ambush them around a corner, and Turn the Bolt / Turn the Blade / Shield reducing all frontal damage from archers to very little. Turn the Bolt + Blade reduces it 300+ damage shots to almost 1/10th that.

 

 

Wouldn't you get more benefit from say, an enhanced Horn of Valor ring or a +crit% which is multiplicative with your attack%, than you do with another +10% attack?

 

Actually no, due to the fact I have +crit chance & cunning on my weapon upgrade. Additional crit chance is extremely marginal benefit. Less so than direct attack %. HoV is not on my build, as I use upgraded BB for more nukes. As my AoE is already fatal, HoV and bigger nukes benefits me less than having more nukes.

 

If I cared to, I'd put back on my +HoK rings, but I already have Caliban + Heal bonus leg gear.

 

Frankly, I'm immortal on perilous runs where I speed run to the back nuking mob groups left and right, while using cover on my flank as I approach. I never let arrows hit me from behind.

 

If I were worried about survivability, I'd spec into unyielding. If my damage was insufficient, I'd use HoV (and I do have the HoV ring), but I don't need it.

[Reman]

Archers are no problem due to pathing, Approach them in a J pattern, or lure --> ambush them around a corner, and Turn the Bolt / Turn the Blade / Shield reducing all frontal damage from archers to very little. Turn the Bolt + Blade reduces it 300+ damage shots to almost 1/10th that.

 

 

Fair enough, just wish I could get that with my reaver, but Rampage --> War horn should keep my health up for a little while.

[Altruismo]

Archers are no problem due to pathing, Approach them in a J pattern, or lure --> ambush them around a corner, and Turn the Bolt / Turn the Blade / Shield reducing all frontal damage from archers to very little. Turn the Bolt + Blade reduces it 300+ damage shots to almost 1/10th that.

 

 

Actually no, due to the fact I have +crit chance & cunning on my weapon upgrade. Additional crit chance is extremely marginal benefit. Less so than direct attack %. HoV is not on my build, as I use upgraded BB for more nukes. As my AoE is already fatal, HoV and bigger nukes benefits me less than having more nukes.

 

If I cared to, I'd put back on my +HoK rings, but I already have Caliban + Heal bonus leg gear.

 

Frankly, I'm immortal on perilous runs where I speed run to the back nuking mob groups left and right, while using cover on my flank as I approach. I never let arrows hit me from behind.

 

But.. if you're running to the back, then BB, then nuke, then they are all dead... what are you hitting for the cooldown reduction?

And wouldn't it just be a quicker clear to give 35% to the whole team, then you go nuke, instead of just 15% to you when you're in position?

I mean, OK I can see you having lots of targets or a boss to hit between nukes in 5/5, but again, wouldn't 100% uptime horn on the whole team be better/quicker anyway?

[Drasca]

But.. if you're running to the back, then BB, then nuke, then they are all dead... what are you hitting for the cooldown reduction?

And wouldn't it just be a quicker clear to give 35% to the whole team, then you go nuke, instead of just 15% to you when you're in position?

I mean, OK I can see you having lots of targets or a boss to hit between nukes in 5/5, but again, wouldn't 100% uptime horn on the whole team be better/quicker anyway?

 

Adds in between, and the phys immune targets I mentioned. Occasionally a pride demon. Also, no, the 35% is wasted dps given a team that can overkill. If your team cannot overkill, then HoV rocks. If it overkills, then it is not useful. My team overkills, because I am there. BB isn't about the 15% damage, but the cooldown reduction.

 

It doesn't take many hits to time cooldown with when I'll be in run / nuke range of the next mob. 10-20 seconds between nukes is fairly realistic.

 

HoV even with ring is about 60-80% uptime and has a range limit. If I have archers / casters that are backline, it would not reach them anyway.

 

 

Fair enough, just wish I could get that with my reaver, but Rampage --> War horn should keep my health up for a little while.

 

I've speed reaver'ed through perilous before. You need to be sneakier... also host. Rubberbanding sucks almost all fun out of melee. Not the class fault, but performance / network issue in general affecting melee the most. I know, sneaky rampager sounds like a contradiction right? But you really do have to be sneakier and change your approach pattern to be right on top of them before they can realistically attack. You can attack faster than they can, and kill them faster than they can shoot you, but only if you manage to approach them better.

 

Also, yell at any ranged players aggro'ing before you do. CC is allowed cast before you do, but not ranged. Melee needs to close the gap in order to be effective. No more stupid chain lightning aggro keepers! ... CL after aggro is fine. Opening though? Idiocy. Waaaay safer to use staff to pull too.

[Reman]

 

I've speed reaver'ed through perilous before. You need to be sneakier... also host. Rubberbanding sucks almost all fun out of melee. Not the class fault, but performance / network issue in general affecting melee the most. I know, sneaky rampager sounds like a contradiction right? But you really do have to be sneakier and change your approach pattern to be right on top of them before they can realistically attack. You can attack faster than they can, and kill them faster than they can shoot you, but only if you manage to approach them better.

 

Also, yell at any ranged players aggro'ing before you do. CC is allowed cast before you do, but not ranged. Melee needs to close the gap in order to be effective. No more stupid chain lightning aggro keepers! ... CL after aggro is fine. Opening though? Idiocy. Waaaay safer to use staff to pull too.

I love sneaky Reaver, it's the only way I get immortal with my crappy Knight-Enchanter sword and common ring of staggering on threatening and higher.

 

Please tell me about keepers, if you aren't casting barrier on me, you're making sure they run away before I get the claws out. 

 

I really need better gear. ;_;

[Altruismo]

It doesn't take many hits to time cooldown with when I'll be in run / nuke range of the next mob. 10-20 seconds between nukes is fairly realistic.

 

HoV even with ring is about 60-80% uptime and has a range limit. If I have archers / casters that are backline, it would not reach them anyway.

 

The ring is ~72% uptime with no cool-down reduction, Flow of Battle will increase that by 5-6% per crit, get two crits in 13 seconds and it goes over 80%, 5 crits in 13 second and it starts nosing 100%. I often have it off cool-down before it's worn off, and keeping it on the whole team is something I consider easy unless they run around like headless chickens.

Just on the strength of Flow of Battle a combo every 15-20 seconds is achievable, I'm just not seeing where BB could bring in enough cooldown reduction to outweight +35% damage to you whole team - in terms of time taken do all the damage necessary to clear a pull, or finish 5/5. Especially since you have to stay inside the circle to get the cool-down reduction.

And ultimately, what are you comboing every 10 seconds anyway?

A Pride Demon that survived the first combo and is dead now anyway (and dies faster with HoV)?

A Physical Immune (who dies faster with HoV anyway)?

Two trash adds (who're mostly a waste of a combo)?

I mean, I can understand how it's handy for your own HoK to have the off-switch for trash mobs handy more often, but I can't see it actually speeding an entire run more than HoV unless your team is complete dead-weight damage wise. Or are you just building for maximum combo scores?

[Drasca]

Altruismo:

You forget about stamina issues , so unless you have a superb stamina amulet (I don't), I wear a 15% SCD, you'll compete stamina for HoV vs Nuke, so you'll actually lose nukes if you go the HoV route. BB is only 10 stamina, which recharges by the time it is finished casting and I position myself for the nuke. HoV at 35 stamina will prevent a nuke. Additionally if you need to actually block anything, HoV further slows down the nukes. As such I cannot recommend HoV unless you have a superb stamina amulet.

 

You still assume the 35% damage translates to direct multiplicative damage for the party, and 3%% less time to kill. It does not, as it is additive to the other bonus damage multipliers (which do multiply with other things). Also, do you not understand what overkill is? A footsoldier has about 3.5k health. The reaver does about 2k damage per dragon rage hit before fervor, taking two slices to kill the footsoldier. Added 33% damage to that ideally would mean 2.6k damage per hit... but that still takes two hits to kill the footsoldier, as the first hit takes the footsoldier down to sub 1k hp, then the second finishes them. Anyone with a lot of burst damage is in a similar situation.

 

If you have no other players with team burst damage, that means you're the only one with the team burst damage as Templar. Ememies will go down fast because of you, and you aren't going to kill any faster than instantly.

 

 

And ultimately, what are you comboing every 10 seconds anyway?

 

EVERYTHING!

 

 

I can't see it

 

Obviously because

A. You haven't been in my games

B. You haven't tried it yourself multiple times

C. You don't have enough experience and perspective.

 

I cannot guarantee the first, but the second and third are up to you to try out.

[BeardyMcGoo]

Also, yell at any ranged players aggro'ing before you do. CC is allowed cast before you do, but not ranged. Melee needs to close the gap in order to be effective. No more stupid chain lightning aggro keepers! ... CL after aggro is fine. Opening though? Idiocy. Waaaay safer to use staff to pull too.

So gorram frustrating. Just wait an extra three seconds for my lego to war cry, you stupid keeper/archer/elementalist. You'll do more damage anyways.

[Altruismo]

Altruismo:

You forget about stamina issues , so unless you have a superb stamina amulet (I don't), I wear a 15% SCD, you'll compete stamina for HoV vs Nuke, so you'll actually lose nukes if you go the HoV route. BB is only 10 stamina, which recharges by the time it is finished casting and I position myself for the nuke. HoV at 35 stamina will prevent a nuke. Additionally if you need to actually block anything, HoV further slows down the nukes. As such I cannot recommend HoV unless you have a superb stamina amulet.

 

HOV for 35 stamina every 13-18 seconds is a stamina concern, but a combo for 90 stamina every 10 seconds isn't... got it

I didn't forget about stamina issues, I assumed you were talking from the standpoint of having the Stamina amulet since, you know... combo combo combo. While Shield blocking too is it?

 

 

You still assume the 35% damage translates to direct multiplicative damage for the party, and 3%% less time to kill. It does not, as it is additive to the other bonus damage multipliers (which do multiply with other things). Also, do you not understand what overkill is? A footsoldier has about 3.5k health. The reaver does about 2k damage per dragon rage hit before fervor, taking two slices to kill the footsoldier. Added 33% damage to that ideally would mean 2.6k damage per hit... but that still takes two hits to kill the footsoldier, as the first hit takes the footsoldier down to sub 1k hp, then the second finishes them. Anyone with a lot of burst damage is in a similar situation.

 

That's a really high "raw" Dragon Rage hit, yet an ironic choice of number for your argument.

Can you tell me how many hits that same Reaver takes to kill a footsoldier with a non-Fervor crit? Now with HoV?

Howabout non-crits, Rampage + Fervor? Now add HoV.

Notice anything?

I'll save you some time, it's 2 hits, then 1 with HoV in each case.

Please be aware, I'm not trying to prove my point with your numbers, I just thought it was an amusing choice for an example.

Regardless, the damage is also not wasted on the mobs with more health than the standard grunts (Brutes, Pride, Rage, Commanders etc.), the Reaver in your example gains a lower "percentage" boost to total damage because they can self buff so much, but HoV is still a raw 700 damage increase (your numbers) per swing. And it makes a significant difference to ranged attackers with low/few damage boosts or those with multiplicative (flanking) damage boosts picking off wraiths, etc.

And what are you hitting for cool-down reduction if your team is over-killing so much?

 

Obviously because

A. You haven't been in my games

B. You haven't tried it yourself multiple times

C. You don't have enough experience and perspective.

 

I cannot guarantee the first, but the second and third are up to you to try out.

 

"You're wrong because I play more", or something... that's not actually a counter to anything other than me claiming I'm more experienced than you, which I'm not.

I mean, sure you've promoted way more times than I have, but this game isn't exactly rocket science or high speed twitch, it's not even unpredictable. Assuming other people are simply "not good enough" at the game isn't a useful way to exchange information.

I got Caliban really early, and as a result I play Templar (and Lego) a lot and really enjoy both classes, I also like to try many different builds, even deliberately "inefficient" ones sometimes looking for funky synergies.

But to address the ad hominem you seem to be levelling at me: Yeah, brah, I know how to play.

The only time I've gotten a noticeable benefit from BB/Combo cool-down is when I'm soloing Threatening, because with other agro and damage sources present in a team in Perilous, I always found that BB/Combo builds "catch 22" themselves:

The combo does so much damage that I'm either left with near-dead/few targets for BB cool-down reduction that are dead before I can combo anyway, or I'm left with no/scattered targets to get cool-down reduction on, making the cool-down reduction minimal to non-existent and a faster combo ineffective anyway.

 

I get how your build can increase how often you combo (if you have targets inside the circle). But you've comboed, you've cast BB, throw Shield Wall and only 100 starting stamina into the mix and you're waiting around for the stamina to do a second combo anyway. I don't see why the cool-down reduction is so vital to you unless your team is dealing really sub-par damage, in which case.. HoV.

Like most of your builds it seems to revolve around the idea that you, personally, are doing everything. And while that is a criticism, I don't mean it to suggest that your builds are bad.

 

I also know you know how to play DAMP, but seriously, which is it? Your team does so much damage that HoV is overkill, or your team does so little that you have plenty of targets to auto-attack inside your BB circle for cool-down reduction? They are kind of mutually exclusive scenarios.

If you've actually been talking about soloing the whole time, then saying that in the first place would have answered my original question.

I think teams clear faster with HoV, you don't, it's cool.

[Medallian]

I think Templar is incredible I have hit up to 21k before...and if you build it right it can turn out a massive amount of damage....just a hint on an awesome build if you ever come a cross a weapon that gives you 20 stamina per kill save it ^.- the Templar only flaw is that it drains stamina to fast.. I can make Templar spit of atks like a archer and just as fast with flow of battle and. Extremely high crit

[xROLLxTIDEx]

 

Like most of your builds it seems to revolve around the idea that you, personally, are doing everything. 

 

QFT

[orskar]

legionnaire is a bit wasted usually as the rooms where you really need to tank, (ie low dps rooms) no matter how hard you try, you will not maintain constant aggro and most likely it'll just be you left alive slowly chipping away at everything. in good dps rooms, everything is generally dead before you need to tank and a barrier keeper/elemenatlist is of more use in keeping the dps guys alive than a tank. I like being a tank but in perilous I feel either mostly useless or too weak. he's great for doorway tanking zone 5 with aoe/dps guys behind you, but that's it.

 

templar can just go nuke the mob before they are even a problem, only real threat to you is archers who might be out of range of your nuke (careful approach and good shield wall spam helps) and 1v1 bosses. also her magic resistance makes demons even easier, while the legionnaire's improved range resistance doesn't make as much of a difference.

 

as far as Horn of Valor goes, it's nice but I'm finding it's generally useless. The animation takes way too long and doesn't flow well with your quick blocking leaving you too exposed to damage, often I forget to use it as it's so "out of the way". Also agree with Drasca here, 35% damage is only helpful if your team is severely lacking in dps, in which case you might as well carry your team better with more combos. I also find I don't have the stamina for it between the combo (100% stamina) and shield wall use during cooldowns, I have enough trouble making sure I have enough stamina to combo and block and often it ends up a choice between using the horn or doing the combo.

 

Blessed blades however allows you to spam your combo more often and lasts a while and cooldown is done right after it wears off. the low stamina use and long duration means you can activate it before charging in and will have recovered the stamina by the time you do the combo. spamming out the combo means all the little guys will be quickly dead and you can take your time kiting around & shield wall blocking in a 1v1 with the resistant enemies left.

 

when I play perilous with templar, I rarely use the horn as it's just too dangerous when I'm in the thick of things, rather save my stamina for more blocking. using it before running is bad because I won't have enough stamina for the combo and using it after the combo to help mop up some strong enemy is unnecessary as all it does is slightly speed up a kill we easily have.

[Jugger nuggss]

Belinda has a special place in my heart! She and I had a wonderful Valentines Day together

[Medallian]

legionnaire is a bit wasted usually as the rooms where you really need to tank, (ie low dps rooms) no matter how hard you try, you will not maintain constant aggro and most likely it'll just be you left alive slowly chipping away at everything. in good dps rooms, everything is generally dead before you need to tank and a barrier keeper/elemenatlist is of more use in keeping the dps guys alive than a tank. I like being a tank but in perilous I feel either mostly useless or too weak. he's great for doorway tanking zone 5 with aoe/dps guys behind you, but that's it.

templar can just go nuke the mob before they are even a problem, only real threat to you is archers who might be out of range of your nuke (careful approach and good shield wall spam helps) and 1v1 bosses. also her magic resistance makes demons even easier, while the legionnaire's improved range resistance doesn't make as much of a difference.

as far as Horn of Valor goes, it's nice but I'm finding it's generally useless. The animation takes way too long and doesn't flow well with your quick blocking leaving you too exposed to damage, often I forget to use it as it's so "out of the way". Also agree with Drasca here, 35% damage is only helpful if your team is severely lacking in dps, in which case you might as well carry your team better with more combos. I also find I don't have the stamina for it between the combo (100% stamina) and shield wall use during cooldowns, I have enough trouble making sure I have enough stamina to combo and block and often it ends up a choice between using the horn or doing the combo.

Blessed blades however allows you to spam your combo more often and lasts a while and cooldown is done right after it wears off. the low stamina use and long duration means you can activate it before charging in and will have recovered the stamina by the time you do the combo. spamming out the combo means all the little guys will be quickly dead and you can take your time kiting around & shield wall blocking in a 1v1 with the resistant enemies left.

when I play perilous with templar, I rarely use the horn as it's just too dangerous when I'm in the thick of things, rather save my stamina for more blocking. using it before running is bad because I won't have enough stamina for the combo and using it after the combo to help mop up some strong enemy is unnecessary as all it does is slightly speed up a kill we easily have.

there us a tank build that does extremely high dps and you have nearly infant guard..... message me if you would like it

[Kenny Bania]

Infant guard? Wut???