"Beauty and love are fleeting and have no meaning. Survival has meaning. Power has meaning."
And that's who Flemeth has raised. She focused on the survival and power too much and neglected love and compassion.
Because she always saw love as a weakness and knowing her history who can blame her. But her intentions were good, she wanted to protect her child from what she herself had suffered, parents often do this with various results. It was never about power, her quote says as much.
Because she always saw love as a weakness and knowing her history who can blame her. But her intentions were good, she wanted to protect her child from what she herself had suffered, parents often do this with various results. It was never about power, her quote says as much.
And then Morrigan married a man who truly loves her and had a child who she deeply loves and had a warm family for once......
Suck it Flemeth. ![=]](https://lvlt.forum.bioware.com/public/style_emoticons/default/sideways.png)
yes, she will regret not making up with the women who only had her to take her body and destroy her soul, after brain washing her into agreeing to have that done...wait WHAT? The only bad thing is that Flemeth died quick and clean, not as she deserved screaming and whimpering in her own filth and gore over the course of months
1. Morrigan has to be will to let her do that.
2. We don't know if it destroys the soul , mind or body.
She completely ignores non OGB Kieran so I think her 'cares about Morrigan' angle was pure BS.
She completely ignores non OGB Kieran so I think her 'cares about Morrigan' angle was pure BS.
Her ignoring non ogb has nothing to do with her loving morrigan or not.
Wut?
Flemeth is an awesome woman and so is Morrigan. I love such characters.
I think in the end she'll have a grudging respect for how Flemythal raised her. If Morighan was a mother she would know what Kieran must have to do once he's older. She is grooming him for that possible outcome, but in her own ways; not like her mother.
Because she always saw love as a weakness and knowing her history who can blame her. But her intentions were good, she wanted to protect her child from what she herself had suffered, parents often do this with various results. It was never about power, her quote says as much.
she stole her previous daughters BODY. Hello did everyone else miss this? She only has daughters to possess them.
she stole her previous daughters BODY. Hello did everyone else miss this? She only has daughters to possess them.
Nobody missed it, from wiki:
Flemeth has given birth to multiple daughters, with whom she swaps bodies to prolong her own life.
also:
Yavana says that Flemeth's ritual of possession that Morrigan feared is a "gift."
There is a great distinction between stealing and swapping, she can not do anything if the other person is not willing.
Flemeth is complex. When Morrigan told me about the Black Grimoire and bid me kill her, I was suspect. Literally, up until that time, I actually liked Flemeth (from the Warden's POV), up until that moment, she did nothing but help you. She protected the treaties, she save the Warden at the Tower, and she gives you a hawt mage to take with you.
On some playthroughs, I killed Flemeth, on others she and I came to an understandng. Despite the sinister conotation, it seems that there isn't much difference which way you choose, kill her, she still lives, don't kill her, and nothing much changes in the timeline. The only unaddressed issue there is if you didn't kill her.... and Hawke delivers the amulet... there are techincally 2 of her out there.
And yet, if you romance Morrigan, you see, at the very least, what a stern and intolerant mother she had been. Until the Warden, she had never had a friend, and was taught friendship and love are weaknesses. Of devouring chasin men of their souls. In DAO, in the Fade, when loving Flemeth is exposed and strikes Morrigan, (Morri) reacts that that is more like the real Flemeth, so there is clearly physical abuse in their history.
In the end, Flemeth seems like both an effective mother (making her daughter strong and able to deal with the evils of the world) and yet, both an abusive, manipulative and cunning harpe in waiting. Yvanna claims is that Flemeth's possession is a gift, calling Morrigan a confused child, it lends credence to the idea that a soul is not forced on another, and yet, who knows how manipulated Yvanna has been by Flemeth. Still, it seems that Flemeth has her eyes on Morrigan over Yavanna for something big... Not sure what the end result was supposed to be, but I feel that Flemeth severly laments the HoF's... Bad Influence on Morrigan. She probably laments saving the HoF and Alistair at the Battle of Ostagar.... if given a second chance, she probably would have save Duncan and a few other GW. Either way, Flemeth is a shitty mother.
Why do people keep acting like willing means actually willing, as once you trick somebody into the robes you've enchanted to destroy their will it isn't really willing, sounds like saying you brainwash somebody into joining a cult and then say they willingly joined your cult.
Also even if the host isn't destroyed it is atleast absorbed into their collective where its fairly clear, Flemmeth and Mythal are the only two personalities with dominance.
Flemeth is a pretty aweful mother probably even by medieval standards. Teaching your kids that love and friendship is worthless and that only survival and power are important? check. Using her as bait for Templars? check. Doing maker-knows what with Chasind men and telling Morrigan details afterwards? check. Hitting her child? 99% sure this is a check. Telling her to sleep with one/one of two random man (she probably dislikes) for some dark magic ritual? check. Stealing her body one day? Maybe not, what her "gift" is is still kind of vague though and I wouldn't completely rule it out yet that it will be horrible for Morrigan to some degree.
So far even Howe seemed to be a better father to Nathaniel. At least we don't hear any horror stories form him.
I think it's pretty clear that Morrigan and Flemeth didn't have the healthiest of relationships, even before the whole body-hijacking incident.
Makes me all the more glad that Morrigan seems to be a much better mother to her own child.
Not true, in origins when morrigan departs with warden, she shows concern for elderly flemeth, to wich flemeth gives a abrasive response that makes morrigan apologize and explain, wich in turn flemeth answer that she understand in a motherly tone.
It was only when morrigan "discovered" the possesion that the relationship went into atrictions, and from her half truth she was right to do so.
Why do people keep acting like willing means actually willing, as once you trick somebody into the robes you've enchanted to destroy their will it isn't really willing, sounds like saying you brainwash somebody into joining a cult and then say they willingly joined your cult.
Also even if the host isn't destroyed it is atleast absorbed into their collective where its fairly clear, Flemmeth and Mythal are the only two personalities with dominance.
How much of Flemeth IS Flemeth and much of it is Mythal? Where does Flemeth end and Mythal begin? I'm thinking theres a Justice/Anders thing going on here. There isn't a dominant personality. All of the personalities that Mythal has absorbed over the years has created what we know as Flemeth.
Flemeth is a pretty aweful mother probably even by medieval standards. Teaching your kids that love and friendship is worthless and that only survival and power are important? check. Using her as bait for Templars? check. Doing maker-knows what with Chasind men and telling Morrigan details afterwards? check. Hitting her child? 99% sure this is a check. Telling her to sleep with one/one of two random man (she probably dislikes) for some dark magic ritual? check. Stealing her body one day? Maybe not, what her "gift" is is still kind of vague though and I wouldn't completely rule it out yet that it will be horrible for Morrigan to some degree.
So far even Howe seemed to be a better father to Nathaniel. At least we don't hear any horror stories form him.
Not hitting your kids is a fairly new concept in parenting. 
Not hitting your kids is a fairly new concept in parenting.
That doesn't make it better if you do it.
That doesn't make it better if you do it.
It doesn't.
But holding people up to modern day standards is a little unfair. It's hard to judge Flemeth for hitting Morrigan when little Cousland or little Hawke got the belt a few times themselves. Hell, Leandra probably struck all three of her children at one point or another. Nobody would accuse her of being a bad mom. Flemeth can be considered a bad mom for other reasons but this isn't one of them.
Say what you will about Cersei - she's a bad person. Terrible. But she isn't a bad mom. (Though in the books, she clearly shows favoritism over Tommen and Myrcella)
Morrigan and her mother have the same unique eye color...a strange yellow coloration that I have not seen on any other NPC
Except the elves guarding the Temple of Mythal.
What possible reason would any one sane have to agree?, Maybe an abused and brain washed wreck would however.Nobody missed it, from wiki:
also:
There is a great distinction between stealing and swapping, she can not do anything if the other person is not willing.
What possible reason would any one sane have to agree?
Who knows.... could range from lust for power and promise for immortality to sympathy for Flemeth's cause.
^ ^ Well, to be fair, we don't know what Flemeth has told her other daughters. Maybe she revealed her big plan to them and told them why it was necessary to possess them. So, maybe Morrigan didn't have all pieces of the puzzle and Flemeth didn't have a chance to fill her in because then the fifth blight happened. Flemeth ran out of time and all she could do was to take preventive measures.
In the end, Flemeth seems like both an effective mother (making her daughter strong and able to deal with the evils of the world) and yet, both an abusive, manipulative and cunning harpe in waiting. Yvanna claims is that Flemeth's possession is a gift, calling Morrigan a confused child, it lends credence to the idea that a soul is not forced on another, and yet, who knows how manipulated Yvanna has been by Flemeth. Still, it seems that Flemeth has her eyes on Morrigan over Yavanna for something big... Not sure what the end result was supposed to be, but I feel that Flemeth severly laments the HoF's... Bad Influence on Morrigan. She probably laments saving the HoF and Alistair at the Battle of Ostagar.... if given a second chance, she probably would have save Duncan and a few other GW. Either way, Flemeth is a shitty mother.
Wait, she was just cryptic. Not a psycho.
Oh, I know this one!
She works in... 'mysterious ways', amirite?
I also don't see what's wrong with teaching a child that friendship and love is a weakness.
Anyone who says it's wrong is not paying attention to the lore and therefore doesn't have a justified opinion.
Flemeth was was in love with someone who was betrayed. She was consumed by the desire for vegeance.
Mythal was betrayed by her closest friends. She is the embodiment of tough love and justice.
Do you not think the hybrid of those two would not dish out tough love and teach her children that love and friendship are ultimately a weakness? It destroyed them both.
Seeing how Morrigan got through to Flemeth when she told her that she would have been better off without her, it is made clear that this is just a defense mechanism that Flemythal use to forge onward on their mission for justice. There are no eeeev000l motives here.
Flemeth passed that conviction on to Morrigan to make sure that Morrigan doesn't fall for the same things she did. Teaching your children lessons based on your experiences are a huge part of parenting. Obviously in this scenario it's not a particularly healthy lesson, one which Morrigan does not reciprocate for her own child. Still, Flemeth and Mythal do have their reasons.
Flemeth is a bad mother because she had children for the wrong reasons.
Flemeth had children not because she wanted to raise a functional human being or because she wanted to satisfy her biological drives or out of love but rather she had children because Mythal wanted to use them for her means to an end.
Before Mythal approached and bonded with Flemeth, Flemeth was just your usual "I-got-married-and-committed-adultery" kind of woman. The legends did not say she had children or had raised children or even had a functioning family during that time.
Flemeth only started having children after Mythal bonded with her.
To Flemeth/Mythal, the children is nothing more than a tool, an insurance policy to be cashed in at a later date. I doubt Flemythal viewed her children as anything more.
That is why Flemeth is fundamentally a bad mother. You can never call a parent who decides to use their children as a tool and an insurance policy as good parents. Manipulative parents and self-interested parents, yes. But never a good parent.
Flemeth's mothering in many ways remind me of Halward Pavus, Dorian's father. Both looked at their kids as tools, as investments to be developed and then cashed it for benefits. When both their offsprings, Morrigan and Dorian decide to give the finger to such bullshite, they act as if they did nothing wrong.
Except the elves guarding the Temple of Mythal.
It's seems a connection that everyone has if bounded to the will of Mythal like Abelas,Flemeth;Morrigan;Yavana and the sentinels
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