176 réponses à ce sujet

[Pierce Miller]

Honestly I feel that it depends on what you're interested in lore-wise. I absolutely loved the mage path because it shows you a new form of magic that technically shouldn't exist and shows you how the fade rifts have altered the world.

[d-boy15]

The catch with the mages is that you have to walk into an obvious trap within one of the most fortified keeps in Thedas.

With the Templars however, you and several other nobles aligned with the Inquisition arrive at Therinfal Redoubt with the intent to make an appeal to the Lord Seeker.

Going with the Templars does not seem like too bad of an alternative.

I may be a bit biased though, since I prefer the Templar mission over that of the Mages.

It can go both way, I think.

With Templar, you avoid an obvious trap and find a more safer and acceptable allied. For Mage, you going in even though it clearly a trap because inquisition cannot let the Tavinter to succeed what they aim for.

[thesuperdarkone2]

Hey, he doesn't agree with the pre-Inquisition order of things. He would prefer to see the templars as allies, but the Chantry drugs and controls them, turning them into questionable "protectors". And I'm not even sure if I agree with total mage liberation. There is a reason why magic is feared.

Good think the most pro-mage ending doesn't result in total mage liberation, but instead results in an independent circle system. The mages get a place where can study and practice their skills and they win widespread acceptance throughout Thedas? The Templar ending doesn't even come close to anything for mages and its said the Templars will likely grow stronger if you side with them. Also, if you side with the Templars, you get a templar who complains that the Inquisition isn't punishing mages. That should tell you all you need to know about who you are helping. Also, how can you be certain you aren't recruiting some of the corrupt and abusive templars as well? We don't know how the templars were in other circles were and Cole's banter makes it clear that even in supposedly good circle like the White Spire, there were rapist and abusive templars? Siding with the templars makes it much more likely for the old ways to continue.

[teh DRUMPf!!]

I intend to make that character eventually. 

 

So what are your story preferences?

 

You might enjoy it. While the premise of the Templar mission is not as interesting as the mages' time-traveling quest, I found it to be an uplifting and inspiring mission, even if you have them yield/disband (though I prefer making them free allies, myself).

 

I am torn about the Templar/lyrium thing, though. I did it mainly for Cullen's health. I am not sure if Templars should all stop taking it, though. I can see an argument to be made for and against it, just can't decide which one I find more convincing.

[HTTP 404]

I prefer killing Venatori instead of Templars.  For gameplay purposes I prefer siding with Templars.

[Cecilia]

My recommendation is to just stick with the mages. If you only go by what people on the forum say and you really don't agree with the templars, you are going to be massively disappointed. Having played both sides, I have to say the mage ending makes more sense from an RP playthrough. Siding with the mages means that you immediately deal with a hostile foreign power on your doorstep that you know if mobilizing for war and is trying to use a new form of magic to undue your victory. That by itself seems like a more pressing threat than trying to get templars and hoping that not all of them are douchebags like Lucius. Also, the story bits on Corypheus you get arent' really some earthshattering pieces of information that reveal some amazing stuff so you won't miss much by not getting them. Also, how revolutionary are you? Siding with the mages has the potential to result in mages finally getting their freedom and getting widespread acceptance throughout Thedas. If you really care about mages, are a few story bits that really aren't that important in the long run worth sacrificing the mages to enslavement, brainwashing, and death? If you are only siding with the templars due to metagaming which results in you doing something that radically goes against what your character wants, don't do it. The stuff you get if siding with the templars isn't really all that great in the long run. All it does is affect who attacks Haven, who the Nemesis quest is for, and who you fight in What Pride has Wrought. Don't forget how plenty of people believe that the mage mission is far superior to the templar one. If you go outside BSN, you'll see that more people prefer the mage mission to the templar one.

 
I agree~ I liked the templar mission better since

Spoiler

the Envy demon quest was actually a lot of fun (I really liked the Fade type settings) and it was interesting to see what could be the end of the game if you went evil!Inquizzy and I love promoting the KC who helps you

, but the introductions to Cole and Dorian don't really ... make sense in that path. I tried it the second time through and it's much harder to understand why 

Spoiler

Dorian would be hanging out with a dying Chancellor Roderick and realize he has something to tell the Inquizzy about escaping Haven

. Also 

Spoiler

killing Fiona sucks :C

 

There's also this cognitive dissonance where you still run into red templars errywhere even after the mission (they sort of handwave about oh there are more) but you don't really run into evil non Venatori mages after the mage questline (unless they all became Venatori mages? I just assumed the Venatori mages were Vints). With the templar questline you also miss out on Cullen's personal (you can still have him kick the habit, but you can't do the Samson quests) which is a really nice thread between all of the Emprise du Lion/Emerald Graves quests.

[Digger1967]

I'm rather disturbed about what I've been reading about the templar path versus the mage path. It almost sounds like the mage path, despite actually showing the doomed future, provides you with an inferior understanding of Corypheus and his larger plans. And Calpernia is apparently a more compelling character than Samson, and even provides insight into Corypheus and his motivations. If this is all true, then my canon revolutionary mage will have to side with the templars just to get the full story, and I hate that. Why can't both sides provide you with the same information, and simply change the context of how you learn it? By the way some people describe it, the mage path is objectively worse and keeps you ignorant of some very important details.

 

But I really enjoyed the mage path. It felt great to finally get somewhere with mage liberation, the time travel scenario was cool, I liked Alexius, and Dorian was directly involved. And Fiona is an important lore character, who is simply killed and discarded on the templar path. 

 

This is an extremely frustrating conflict for me. Must I sacrifice my canon mage's natural inclinations in order to get a better story? 

 

Guess it depends on your perspective.  Not wanting to start the whole mage vrs templar tiff here of course, and from an game perspective (setting all roleplaying aside) I much prefer the mages quest.  The demon in the Templar quest just never shuts up, and much like Iron bull, I hate the talky ones.  But from a strictly RP standpoint, by doing the Templar Quest even if you are a "mage supporter", well your given the option to conscript the Templars.  Basically bringing them under Inquisition control.

 

So for your evil Venatori types - you've got Templar support to fight against them and the breech.  For your everyday average hey I'm not really into that blood magic thing but I really don't need the thought police hassling me every 5 seconds either type mages, well since you control the Templars you get to decide how much latitude if any they have.  So really from a mage perspective the templar quest, even from an RP standpoint, is sort of a win win.

 

In strictly RP terms, well the Quest doesn't so much begin with the idea that your going there to recruit the templars as it does that your going there to find out what's up with the templars, so the recruitment thing really isn't so much the goal at least to start.

 

From an RP standpoint though, I find it very difficult for any character to take the Templar quest without using the justification that I don't know that the mage quest will no longer be available.  If you recall when you talk to Dorian in Redcliff he mentions that Alexus's meddling with time magic isn't just a threat if he uses it again, that the damage is already done.  He is "ripping time to shreds" and that his spell to travel through time has started a chain reaction that threatens to tear all of Thedas apart.  He mentions that the time distortion rifts have weakened the veil and that these rifts will begin appearing further and further away from Redcliff as time passes.

 

To me resolving that no matter where you are on the "mage vrs templar" from a roleplay standpoint takes much higher precedence than going through all the trouble to find out why the Templars have their knickers in a twist.

[Cobwebmaster]

My recommendation is to just stick with the mages. If you only go by what people on the forum say and you really don't agree with the templars, you are going to be massively disappointed. Having played both sides, I have to say the mage ending makes more sense from an RP playthrough. Siding with the mages means that you immediately deal with a hostile foreign power on your doorstep that you know if mobilizing for war and is trying to use a new form of magic to undue your victory. That by itself seems like a more pressing threat than trying to get templars and hoping that not all of them are douchebags like Lucius. Also, the story bits on Corypheus you get arent' really some earthshattering pieces of information that reveal some amazing stuff so you won't miss much by not getting them. Also, how revolutionary are you? Siding with the mages has the potential to result in mages finally getting their freedom and getting widespread acceptance throughout Thedas. If you really care about mages, are a few story bits that really aren't that important in the long run worth sacrificing the mages to enslavement, brainwashing, and death? If you are only siding with the templars due to metagaming which results in you doing something that radically goes against what your character wants, don't do it. The stuff you get if siding with the templars isn't really all that great in the long run. All it does is affect who attacks Haven, who the Nemesis quest is for, and who you fight in What Pride has Wrought. Don't forget how plenty of people believe that the mage mission is far superior to the templar one. If you go outside BSN, you'll see that more people prefer the mage mission to the templar one.

So far as detailed earlier I have chosen the Templar option for the reasons(s) stated. I too thought that the priority initially was to deal with the presence of the Tevinters in ferelden until I realised that (a) my human noble was from the Free Marches and ( The presence of invaders in Ferelden was a matter for King Alastair/ Queen Anora their teyrns, Arls, banns etc. It has been ten years since the blight and they should have more than enough resources to deal with this local issue. Meanwhile my own forces after suffering heavy casualties in the disaster at the Temple of Sacred Ashes were in no position to take on a heavy contingent of Tevinter ground forces, ensconced in a heavily defended castle with mage support. Even if I could scrape together sufficient forces I wouldn't be able to maintain a presence in the Hinterlands and anywhere else I had managed to restore some semblance of order to. 

My overriding priority is to close the breach and the Templars on the surface seem to be a better option in countering a fade threat than having to deal with a Tevinter invasion as well.

This is not a case of which is the best option, as I don't think there is such a thing as the right one, just consequences from choosing . At the point in the game where you make your choice is the crux of the matter. Using a forum like this to find out what other people chose and their views on their choices is very interesting, and now replaying the game I will say that depending on your character choice and background,it might be true in RPG terms that one choice will appeal more than another. 

[Mushashi7]

I think the dilemma is cute in this game.

You have the old conservative who doesn't want anything changed, lots of military and law enforcement to protect their little safe homes.

And then you have the mage line where common sense dares to break with the stubborness of old in order to make a world where power and freedom is distributed fair.

Is it that hard to chose?

[Cobwebmaster]

I think the dilemma is cute in this game.

You have the old conservative who doesn't want anything changed, lots of military and law enforcement to protect their little safe homes.

And then you have the mage line where common sense dares to break with the stubborness of old in order to make a world where power and freedom is distributed fair.

Is it that hard to chose?

 When you put it like that no, but for those of us who played the previous 2 games it is not as simple as it sounds.

Firstly both mages and templars are out of control. Historically mages have no experience in policing their own conduct and it does need to be policed for their safety as well as the public at large. The Templar problem is an even more volatile one. Freed from Chantry control they are in serious danger of running amuk and destroying half the remaining population of Thedas through zealotry and heavy handedness. As a heavily armed and disciplined force with the ability to combat both mages , demons, and abominations, once their supply of lyrium is secured they are potentially unstoppable   As such they need to be put back on a leash asap.

From a role play pov, the way I read it mages are divided with some recognising the necessity and sanctity of the Circle for further education and training, while others are holding different views with the rebels casting their lot with you know who. The problem the mages have is that their current initiation rites (the harrowing)are so primitive as to result in high casualty rates. a better system is needed, and should be included in any reformation for the future. The mages big problem to overcome is the public perception of their "evilness" by having magic. In the meantime whatever core rebellious mages there are, are now under the direct control of the Tevinters. That is not ideal by any means, but pending military action to dislodge them by  Fereldan forces, they are at least a known quantity and can be contained for the time being. From the Inquisition's point of view they can be dealt with at leisure while any rifts that could appear can be negated by the Herald and his team. The cause of the explosion at the Temple must be identified and dealt with as a matter of the highest priority. 

It's pretty clear that the "old ways" as you put it are gone and a new solution is required for the future. The chantry is now scattered and divided as well so the whole thing is as pretty a mess as one could imagine. Where I differ from you view is that I see the job of the inquisition as being primarily to restore order and protect the population while dealing with the threat emanating originally from The Temple of Sacred Ashes. The issue of whether the mages are allowed to self govern, or the templars need reorganising is not one for the inquisitor to solve but others after. The choice between using the rebel mages or the recalcitrant templars is a simple one based on how you see you need to grow your forces. Either way there will be consequences afterwards. I think with the Templars as your allies, you have leverage to use against both hostile mages and the thick heads in the chantry. With mages you could force an alliance between the Chantry and the cast aside Templar forces of  knights, men at arms,  trainees, and scribes. Before you know it you could be out of one war and straight into the next. One thing Ferelden, Nevarra, The Free Marches,  Orlais, and any other nation will agree on, is that Tevinter is definitely the enemy.  

[Mushashi7]

 When you put it like that no, but for those of us who played the previous 2 games it is not as simple as it sounds.

... is that Tevinter is definitely the enemy.  

.
I played the previous two games. The first was the better one somehow.

As for my views: My choices in the game reflects my personal views.

I can pretend and let my self lead astray. A good fantasy or story is not to be neglected. But this story is hard to pretend as it a simple copy of many things from the real world. Money, power, religion, envy, racediscrimination, you name it.

In this game my choices would be the same as in real life. Like Vivienne. I can't stand her. She really gets my knuckles hard. In real life I'd tell her a thing or two.

But if we stay within the story I agree with you. The time is ripe for a change. Everyone should have their freedom.

[Cobwebmaster]

Like you Vivienne really irritated me. Her political manouevering following the first Val Royeaux visit was an obvious attempt to use the crisis for her own personal gain, but her position within the circle and within Val Royeaux society meant that I couldn't leave her out of the movement - too dangerous politically to do that.

After a couple of exchanges with other team members (including me) on quests I found her superior smirking too annoying to bear so I dropped her completely leaving her to her books and politicking in Skyhold. What amazed me was that she ended up as being the new Divine in preference to Mother Giselle. At as a human noble I was spared most of her snobbishness. As it was I still felt in her presence that I was the janitor of the piece, sent out to clear up the mess while she got on with the real work without getting her hands dirty. Ah well ce la vie as they say

I agree Thedas society had reached the point where it had to start again and Corphyeus' actions only forced the change that was inevitable. Both Chantry, Templars, and Mages had become so totally disenchanted with their lot following Ander's actions during DA2 that I think Justinia was in the process of facilitating that change when everything blew up in their faces

Thanks for reminding me about your presence in DA0 and 2. I now remember enjoying  posts under your ID (or very similar) on those games too

[Akkos]

Like you Vivienne really irritated me. Her political manouevering following the first Val Royeaux visit was an obvious attempt to use the crisis for her own personal gain, but her position within the circle and within Val Royeaux society meant that I couldn't leave her out of the movement - too dangerous politically to do that.

After a couple of exchanges with other team members (including me) on quests I found her superior smirking too annoying to bear so I dropped her completely leaving her to her books and politicking in Skyhold. What amazed me was that she ended up as being the new Divine in preference to Mother Giselle. At as a human noble I was spared most of her snobbishness. As it was I still felt in her presence that I was the janitor of the piece, sent out to clear up the mess while she got on with the real work without getting her hands dirty. Ah well ce la vie as they say

I agree Thedas society had reached the point where it had to start again and Corphyeus' actions only forced the change that was inevitable. Both Chantry, Templars, and Mages had become so totally disenchanted with their lot following Ander's actions during DA2 that I think Justinia was in the process of facilitating that change when everything blew up in their faces

Thanks for reminding me about your presence in DA0 and 2. I now remember enjoying  posts under your ID (or very similar) on those games too

 

Don't worry my dear. Nobody will scold you at least. But what you wanted to do in your game is not different from what that lady wanted to achieve. Unless you were so short-sighted while choosing your options without focusing on the consequences of those actions made and cared more about the results, just like her.

[goofyomnivore]

As a mage enthusiast myself I do this when doing the templar side. Appoint Leliana as Divine, ally with the Templar Order, and cure Cullen lyrium addiction.

 

Leliana allows the mages to govern themselves. The new Templar Order follows Cassandra/Cullen independent from the Chantry. Now the mage / chantry / templar situation is a three headed entity with checks and balances rather than all under the Chantry's power. I guess it depends who the new leader of the mages is with Fiona dead. I would be impressed if the mages could find someone worse than Fiona to lead them tho.

 

Roleplaying reasons: I just tell myself I'd rather try and suppress the Breach than powering it up first. Also trying to "ally" with the rebel mages who usurped the Arl of Redcliffe seems like political suicide. If Ferelden wants to punish them I may not get any mages at all, and with the Inquisition still in its infancy I doubt it could bully the Ferelden crown into handing the mages over.

[Cobwebmaster]

Don't worry my dear. Nobody will scold you at least. But what you wanted to do in your game is not different from what that lady wanted to achieve. Unless you were so short-sighted while choosing your options without focusing on the consequences of those actions made and cared more about the results, just like her.

Well I'd decided that neither Leliana nor the impetuously skewering Cassandra should move into the Divine's job. I'd certainly have moral issues about someone who runs a network of spies on one hand eliminating or intimidating threats, and on the other keeping a brace of Nugs as pets. To quote the famous Nug dealer in Orzammar "You may as well leash a turnip!"  While Cassandra's and Leliana's ruthlessness (and particularly Leliana's bard skills) were admirable traits, having a Mage of such seniority and influence as Vivienne as Divine couldn't have worked out better in the short to medium term. Someone like Mother Giselle is great as a successor after the clean up and the major restructuring of  the Chantry, the Circles and the shackling of the Templars. Vivienne, with her  diplomatic, and arcane skills plus her seniority and renown is an ideal choice to project manage the lot. Who knows she may even retire to becoming the new Empress of Orlais having committed and got away with various acts of les majeste  

[Lady Artifice]

Both story aspects have pros and cons, and stuff you miss out on from the other path.

 

Do the Mage run this time, which is a compelling story, and the Templar run next play through, which I consider to be even more compelling by virtue of how personal it tends to be for your Inquisitor. 

 

The big inclusivity that the Templar path boasts in terms of info, is that you can visit Redcliffe and get a glimpse of what's happening there, and then still pursue the Templars. It isn't that heavily one sided. 

 

Also, Samson is still pretty cool imo. His story is pretty complicated. 

[Cecilia]

Well I'd decided that neither Leliana nor the impetuously skewering Cassandra should move into the Divine's job. I'd certainly have moral issues about someone who runs a network of spies on one hand eliminating or intimidating threats, and on the other keeping a brace of Nugs as pets. To quote the famous Nug dealer in Orzammar "You may as well leash a turnip!"  While Cassandra's and Leliana's ruthlessness (and particularly Leliana's bard skills) were admirable traits, having a Mage of such seniority and influence as Vivienne as Divine couldn't have worked out better in the short to medium term. Someone like Mother Giselle is great as a successor after the clean up and the major restructuring of  the Chantry, the Circles and the shackling of the Templars. Vivienne, with her  diplomatic, and arcane skills plus her seniority and renown is an ideal choice to project manage the lot. Who knows she may even retire to becoming the new Empress of Orlais having committed and got away with various acts of les majeste  

 

I'm a huuuge Viv fangirl, but my headcanon has Cass as Divine with Viv as her Right/Left Hand, which leaves my Circle Mage Inquizzy free to become the Grand Enchanter (gowai Fiona your dementia is showing)  

 

I agree with Viv a lot wrt magic/Circles but I find her a little too micromanaging and control-happy as Divine - her skills and personality really work better in a close administrative/advisory capacity to an actual Divine whose leadership she respects and defers to even if she disagrees.

[Forsythia77]

Generally I've played all three games as a mage sympathizer regardless of class/race (especally DA2 what with Hawke's sister being the sweetest person and a mage).  This game is no exception.  In my current playthrough I'm playing as a Dalish mage, but playing her as a mage with no real opinion on the whole mage/templar thing since she was with her clan and removed from all that.  So I sided with the templars this time around just to see the templar story (sided with the mages in all my previous playthroughs).  I'm  just about to the point where I go to Adamant, so I've still a lot of decisions left.  Not sure who to pick for my Divine.  I'm leaning toward Cass this time around.  I made Viv my Divine in the last game.  Man, is she hardcore about keeping firm control of the status quo.  From my personal standpoint I always lean Leliana, but I like to explore all my options (I've had Leliana as Divine once too).

[Lee80]

I find the templar quest to be the lesser option.  The quest is less interesting, and feels more rushed because of the timer mechanic where you have to keep going back to the main hall to keep Barris alive.  (so annoying!)  Calpernia and the gap between her teeth are very boring for me.  I do however  like the quest to find her mentor-it doesn't make up for what I lost in more Dorian dialogue and time with him (he's my favorite companion) however.

 

Also, like others have said the Samson quest line is really great and fits well with getting ready for the final quests.  Especially great in the fact it encourages you to push into the next to highest leveled area in the game.  The Calpernia quest is over far too early in the game. 

[teh DRUMPf!!]

Roleplaying reasons: I just tell myself I'd rather try and suppress the Breach than powering it up first. Also trying to "ally" with the rebel mages who usurped the Arl of Redcliffe seems like political suicide. If Ferelden wants to punish them I may not get any mages at all, and with the Inquisition still in its infancy I doubt it could bully the Ferelden crown into handing the mages over.

 

Never mind political suicide, how about actual suicide? The enemy has a fortified position, and Alexius is ready for you (brings back an old Hawke quote, nothing like fighting a prepared magister). Going to make contact with the Templars at Thereinfall is a much more reasonable plan. all things considered. A good leader needs to gauge his/her own value, and the Herald absolutely must stay alive at all costs 'til the Breach is sealed.

 

Hell, The Herald basically did fail, but was lucky that Dorian could reverse Alexius's spell.

 

I only go get the mages if I am playing as an elf, as they may feel like Templars are an enemy to their people and want nothing to do with them.

[Xilizhra]

Never mind political suicide, how about actual suicide? The enemy has a fortified position, and Alexius is ready for you (brings back an old Hawke quote, nothing like fighting a prepared magister). Going to make contact with the Templars at Thereinfall is a much more reasonable plan. all things considered. A good leader needs to gauge his/her own value, and the Herald absolutely must stay alive at all costs 'til the Breach is sealed.

 

Hell, The Herald basically did fail, but was lucky that Dorian could reverse Alexius's spell.

 

I only go get the mages if I am playing as an elf, as they may feel like Templars are an enemy to their people and want nothing to do with them.

Lucius is clearly hostile to the Inquisition, and when entering Therinfal, there's really no telling what you'll meet inside. At least when trying to deal with Alexius' trap, you can more or less see what the trap looks like.

[congokong]

So far I've only played as mages and I've always recruited the templars regardless. When I first played trying to recruit the mages seemed stupid and incredibly risky in comparison.

 

Think of it this way. You can be pro-mage but without meta-gaming choose the templars because it seems the far more logical path. Instead of using yourself as bait against an enemy with time magic relying on a relative stranger's (Dorian) ability to save you, confronting the Lord Seeker with 10 noble houses seems far safer. Also, the templars would seem far more inclined to following orders.

 

I eventually played through the mage path once on an old save and was glad I chose the templars. The mage path in comparison sucks. It's shorter, involves yet more fade rifts (as if we don't have enough), and is horribly cliche involving a terrible future that you must go back to stop from ever happening. Yeah, been there. Not to mention your allies being locked up conveniently in the castle a year later is absurd. Oh, and Leliana's "You'll find out soon enough" response to questions about the Elder One is priceless.

 

So go with the templars unless you don't agree with the above and have them join the Inquisition. That way you're still helping mages while increasing the inquisition's power.

[Xilizhra]

So far I've only played mages and I've always sided with the templars regardless. Think of it this way. You can be pro-mage but without meta-gaming choose the templars because it seems the far more logical path. Instead of using yourself as bait against an enemy with time magic relying on a relative stranger's (Dorian) ability to save you, confronting the Lord Seeker with 10 noble houses seems far safer. Also, the templars would seem far more inclined to following orders.

 

I eventually played through the mage path once on an old save and was glad I chose the templars. The mage path in comparison sucks. It's shorter, involves yet more fade rifts (as if we don't have enough), and is horribly cliche involving a terrible future that you must go back to stop from ever happening. Yeah, been there. Not to mention your allies being locked up conveniently in the castle a year later is absurd. Oh, and Leliana's "You'll find out soon enough" response to questions about the Elder One is priceless.

 

So go with the templars unless you don't agree with the above and have them join the Inquisition. That way you're still helping mages while increasing the inquisition's power.

None of that stacks up with freeing both the mage rebellion and Redcliffe from the Venatori. It helps that I don't really care what happens to the templars all that much.

[Master Warder Z_]

Killing Fiona is awesome so superior story telling and game play beats out roleplay