176 réponses à ce sujet

[thesuperdarkone2]

Don't forget how your advisors outright say the Venatori are mobilizing for war. Are you really just going to ignore the hostile foreign power that is gunning for you and you know is mobilizing for war? Really, dealing with the Venatori is a more urgent matter.

[AresKeith]

Don't forget how your advisors outright say the Venatori are mobilizing for war. Are you really just going to ignore the hostile foreign power that is gunning for you and you know is mobilizing for war? Really, dealing with the Venatori is a more urgent matter.

 

The Red Templars are literally the same

[congokong]

I thought it was Leliana who really wanted the mages, not Cassandra?  L is the one who flat out says that the Templars are an unreliable choice (though she also makes it clear that she wants to be supporting the Rebellion as much as anything else, regardless).

I recall Cassandra who really didn't want to give up on Redcliffe. Leliana has strong sympathy for the mages yet wasn't arguing to choose them from a tactful standpoint.

[AresKeith]

I recall Cassandra who really didn't want to give up on Redcliffe. Leliana has strong sympathy for the mages yet wasn't arguing to choose them from a tactful standpoint.

 

After meeting Fiona Cassandra considered going to the Templars instead 

[congokong]

After meeting Fiona Cassandra considered going to the Templars instead 

I thought it was the opposite. When you suggest going to Redcliffe to hear Fiona out she disapproves, and approves of wanting to get the templars. After learning a Tevinter Magister is in Redcliffe's castle she really wants to stop him though.

[Cobwebmaster]

I'm a huuuge Viv fangirl, but my headcanon has Cass as Divine with Viv as her Right/Left Hand, which leaves my Circle Mage Inquizzy free to become the Grand Enchanter (gowai Fiona your dementia is showing)

 

I agree with Viv a lot wrt magic/Circles but I find her a little too micromanaging and control-happy as Divine - her skills and personality really work better in a close administrative/advisory capacity to an actual Divine whose leadership she respects and defers to even if she disagrees.

I could live with that outcome!

[Nefla]

There isn't nearly enough difference between any two choices in the game to force yourself to pick one you don't want to. All choices are equivalent.

[Cobwebmaster]

There isn't nearly enough difference between any two choices in the game to force yourself to pick one you don't want to. All choices are equivalent.

If you role play your character within the DA culture in Ferelden and Thedas, there are major differences that will influence your choice, and the subsequent future of the world you become part of in this game. If however you are stating that it makes little difference which side you pick, to defeat the main protagonist then that is a matter for you and the game (and maybe you are only interested in the result). Your destiny is to save Thedas. The road you walk to achieve that  is your choice, but I would suggest that you would get more from the game by immersing yourself (character) deeper into the Dragon Age world, it's culture, politics, and people

[Esther]

I think it's a good thing that you get to know different things depending on who you side with.

At least it gives me an excuse to play the game more than once and I even wish every main quest was something like that

and you would get a completely different game based on your choices.  

[Riot Inducer]

There isn't nearly enough difference between any two choices in the game to force yourself to pick one you don't want to. All choices are equivalent.

Indeed, it is nice though how you learn slightly different things and the enemies you face are slightly different based on your choice. Both have their merits so it's quite easy to simply choose based on RP/personal preference.

 

I will say though I feel like the mage route flows a little bit better insofar that it gives you the clearest insight and lead on the enemies behind the conclave early on. While you effectively gain the same information from the Envy demon it feels like a much less complete picture compared to literally seeing the consequences of the baddies winning in Redcliffe.

[Digger1967]

I like the mage quest much better myself, it seems to flow better and frankly just from a game play standpoint it's a whole lot less annoying.  Normally I love the cut scenes in the game, but man during the first part of the Templar quest it's just one after another after another and most of them are just annoying as all get out.  Also it could just be me, but when your first dealing with the Envy demon it seemed like most of your dialog choices suck and just make you sound lame.

 

The timer thing when finding the veterans was a serious annoyance, not sure if it's a bug or not but I've noticed on my PS4 when you go to the door that leads in and into or out of the main area where the Templars are hold up it will actually switch back and forth from leading you back to the main hall or putting you right back where your at depending on where you stand and how your facing it.

 

The result for me the first time through was I kept trying to go through the damn door and kept getting dumped right back into the officers quarters instead of getting back to the main hall even though I was sure that was the right door.  The timer ran out and then I found out I had to back up two saves and restart from total scratch because when it comes back from autosave the timer is still empty so you get stuck in a continuous loop.  That pretty much killed the Templar quest for me strictly from a gameplay standpoint. 

 

I did run through it a second time though and I discovered that running through the castle while being bombarded by fade circles thing wasn't nearly as bad because I realized it would be easier to just switch to tactical mode.  That made that whole part just so much smoother it wasn't even funny, I'd switch to tactical, find the stairs going up, mark them and stay in tactical to move from a to b.  Unfortunately while it makes it playable it sort of kills the ambiance.  They intentionally put way to much crap in that section specifically to screw up your camera view and make it more difficult, which frankly was overkill and ruined much of the quest for me.

 

The other thing I noticed, again strictly from a gameplay standpoint, the loot on the mage quest just blows the stuff you get from the Templars away, even if you take the time to loot almost everything from the Templar side which involves running back and forth, a lot.  You get tons of great schematics from the mage side, seemed like almost nothing of note but enough red lyrium to choke a horse out of the Templars. 

 

From a roleplay standpoint, well the first meeting with Fiona and she seems pretty reasonable and open to the idea of negotiation.  Seeker Lucias on the other hand makes it pretty clear that you can go pound sand for all he cares, and unless you ignore Fiona's invitation to Redcliff completely you discover pretty quickly that something horrible that demands immediate attention is going on there, whereas with the Templars there doesn't seem to be any serious, pressing need to look into that situation.  Certainly not to the extent where you should ignore what's going on with the mage side at any rate.

 

So in all respects I actually prefer the mage quest, I just really wish the Templar quest seem to have as much thought behind it because it would be so much nicer if the two quests were nearly equal from both a gameplay and RP standpoint.

 

Just my two cents worth of course, I know there are many who really love the Templars thing and that's great.  Just really wasn't my cup of tea for the reasons listed above.

[Cobwebmaster]

I like the mage quest much better myself, it seems to flow better and frankly just from a game play standpoint it's a whole lot less annoying.  Normally I love the cut scenes in the game, but man during the first part of the Templar quest it's just one after another after another and most of them are just annoying as all get out.  Also it could just be me, but when your first dealing with the Envy demon it seemed like most of your dialog choices suck and just make you sound lame.

.............
 

The timer thing when finding the veterans was a serious annoyance, not sure if it's a bug or not but I've noticed on my PS4 when you go to the door that leads in and into or out of the main area where the Templars are hold up it will actually switch back and forth from leading you back to the main hall or putting you right back where your at depending on where you stand and how your facing it.

.................

 

So in all respects I actually prefer the mage quest, I just really wish the Templar quest seem to have as much thought behind it because it would be so much nicer if the two quests were nearly equal from both a gameplay and RP standpoint.

 

Just my two cents worth of course, I know there are many who really love the Templars thing and that's great.  Just really wasn't my cup of tea for the reasons listed above.

You make a good case for the mages, without using your own character's judgement  referencing either the concept of freedom from slavery, or political and tactical necessity for the long term. As a matter of interest I experienced the same bug re the main hall on my pc. It is similar to the one I get when trying to mod armour and weapons at a bench where I end up in the amour mod when I want to add a staff blade to my stave. The templar quest bug got me annoyed until I started to slow down a bit and give the game a bit more time to realise that I had stopped running and I really did want to go to the next cell not stay in the one I was already in. oN my pc I worked out that mouse position on screen could have played a part in that error

I agree about Lucius who had obviously a case of having not all his dogs barking. This got me to thinking in hindsight, that with such a powerful and knowledgeable mage on fade issues as Solas in my party, why didn't he pick up that Lucius was an abomination? That would have led to an immediate confrontation and exposure in Val Royeaux. Whatever, I will get around to opting for the mage quest while playing as a character that would sympathise with them more, not for the reason that I may need to rescue Fiona, but to "Get the Tevinter's the hell out of the equation". Mind you I think that King Alastair and/or Queen Anora were spending far too much time sitting on their hands while their country was being invaded by an enemy they hated even worse than Orlais for their 30 year occupation

[Digger1967]

You make a good case for the mages, without using your own character's judgement  referencing either the concept of freedom from slavery, or political and tactical necessity for the long term. As a matter of interest I experienced the same bug re the main hall on my pc. It is similar to the one I get when trying to mod armour and weapons at a bench where I end up in the amour mod when I want to add a staff blade to my stave. The templar quest bug got me annoyed until I started to slow down a bit and give the game a bit more time to realise that I had stopped running and I really did want to go to the next cell not stay in the one I was already in. oN my pc I worked out that mouse position on screen could have played a part in that error

I agree about Lucius who had obviously a case of having not all his dogs barking. This got me to thinking in hindsight, that with such a powerful and knowledgeable mage on fade issues as Solas in my party, why didn't he pick up that Lucius was an abomination? That would have led to an immediate confrontation and exposure in Val Royeaux. Whatever, I will get around to opting for the mage quest while playing as a character that would sympathise with them more, not for the reason that I may need to rescue Fiona, but to "Get the Tevinter's the hell out of the equation". Mind you I think that King Alastair and/or Queen Anora were spending far too much time sitting on their hands while their country was being invaded by an enemy they hated even worse than Orlais for their 30 year occupation

 

That would have worked a lot better from an RP standpoint I think.. Having Solas or someone bring to light that something was seriously amiss with the Lord Seeker and the choice becomes, ok do we try to save the mages or the templars first?  Which group is the bigger threat if left to their own devices while we save the other, etc, etc.

 

Have to admit though regardless I'd love to see them completely 86 the character of Cole.  Wow...  that was just fingernails on a chalkboard for me.  Again, probably just me.  Lol

[teh DRUMPf!!]

Don't forget how your advisors outright say the Venatori are mobilizing for war. Are you really just going to ignore the hostile foreign power that is gunning for you and you know is mobilizing for war? Really, dealing with the Venatori is a more urgent matter.

 

Do not mistake avoiding with ignoring. I am not ignoring the Venatori, but I am not just going to just walk up to an army with some small fireteam, on their turf, where they hold a defensible fortress (one that kept out Darkspawn, demons, and many other things more powerful than my Inquisition is at this time) and a Tevinter magister sitting in the wait. I am instead going to recruit one of the most powerful armies in Thedas to bolster my own side's strength so I have an answer for the Venatori and can face them in more favorable circumstances.

 

The Red Templars are also a brewing threat, and IMO, a bigger one.

[thesuperdarkone2]

Do not mistake avoiding with ignoring. I am not ignoring the Venatori, but I am not just going to just walk up to an army with some small fireteam, on their turf, where they hold a defensible fortress (one that kept out Darkspawn, demons, and many other things more powerful than my Inquisition is at this time) and a Tevinter magister sitting in the wait. I am instead going to recruit one of the most powerful armies in Thedas to bolster my own side's strength so I have an answer for the Venatori and can face them in more favorable circumstances.

 

The Red Templars are also a brewing threat, and IMO, a bigger one.

If the entire Inquisition and Ferelden army couldn't stop the Venatori in the bad future, what makes you think Templars are all you need? Don't forget that there are non-mages in the Venatori and a Templar is just a skilled knight against a non-mage. Don't forget how your advisors outright say that even if you could invade Redcliffe, the Fereldens would just see the Inquisition as Orlesians starting a war and would start a war with the Inquisition. Don't forget how your advisors outright say that the Venatori would already be long gone by the time you are done recruiting the Templars. In other words, are you really going to waste time hoping for an army that you know will anger Ferelden and start a war with Ferelden while also allowing a hostile foreign power to take the mages and go to war most likely against you while you are busy hoping not all the Templars are douchebags like the ones in Val Royeau. 

 

Also, you have no idea Red Templars even exist when you are deciding a mission. All you know that the Templars are hiding out at Therinfal. There is absolutely zero indication your character thinks anything is wrong with the Templars until the Red Templars attack. The entire start of the mission was you essentially discussing the situation with Lucius and hoping some templars will aid the inquisition. 

 

Also, as for a bigger threat, I'd say the Venatori are a bigger one. When it comes right down to it, the Red Templars are just foot soldiers. They can't blend in and only serve as soldiers so that's all they can do. The Venatori meanwhile developed time magic, managed to trick the Grey Wardens into unknowingly serving Corypheus, can successfully kill Celene, and they have a spy network that can firebomb Denerim, brainwash the Nevarran king, plant a spy in Skyhold, send red lyrium to Tevinter, and take control of a town. Really, the Venatori are a bigger threat considering the Red Templars can only fight and not do anything else whereas the Venatori have way more resources and are capable of subterfuge that can do more damage than the red templars ever could.

 

If you are neutral, there is little reason to ignore the big threat the Venatori pose just to get templars. 

[Boost32]

If the entire Inquisition and Ferelden army couldn't stop the Venatori in the bad future, what makes you think Templars are all you need?

Lol, because of this I cant take the mage quest serious.
Before you were sent to the future, Leliana and her agents killed every Venatori in Redcliff, but somehow lost the fight to Alexius, and even a batallion of Ferelden soldiers couldnt handed the might of Alexius ( who alone defeated the Inquisition assassins and the Ferelden army!.).
Alexius is a one man army!

[Xilizhra]

Lol, because of this I cant take the mage quest serious.
Before you were sent to the future, Leliana and her agents killed every Venatori in Redcliff, but somehow lost the fight to Alexius, and even a batallion of Ferelden soldiers couldnt handed the might of Alexius ( who alone defeated the Inquisition assassins and the Ferelden army!.).
Alexius is a one man army!

Alexius can open Fade rifts, which no one except the Herald can close. Leliana's people would eventually be overwhelmed by demons.

[AresKeith]

If the entire Inquisition and Ferelden army couldn't stop the Venatori in the bad future, what makes you think Templars are all you need? 

 

It wasn't just the Venatori in the bad future it was them and Red Templars as a full force 

[Boost32]

Alexius can open Fade rifts, which no one except the Inquisitor can close. Leliana's people would eventually be overwhelmed by demons.

Tha man was surrounded, after he opened the time hole why she just didnt put a arrow in his skull? "Alexius, you just cast a powerful spell, Im going to wait you to cast another before I attack you".
And lets not forget the Ferelden army was just 2 min away, they invaded the Redcliff castle without opposition and were defeated by the might of Alexius!

[Riot Inducer]

It wasn't just the Venatori in the bad future it was them and Red Templars as a full force 

Not to mention the Warden's demon army.

[Xilizhra]

Tha man was surrounded, after he opened the time hole why she just didnt put a arrow in his skull? "Alexius, you just cast a powerful spell, Im going to wait you to cast another before I attack you".
And lets not forget the Ferelden army was just 2 min away, they invaded the Redcliff castle without opposition and were defeated by the might of Alexius!

He has barriers, and in fact puts up an unbreakable one before opening the rifts when you fight him in the future. It's not like Leliana could have just put an arrow in Alexius' skull in that future battle.

[AresKeith]

Not to mention the Warden's demon army.

 

Them too, by the time the entire Inquisition and Ferelden army tries to take it back they would've had to deal all three of those factions mostly the Reds and Vents 

[thesuperdarkone2]

Lol, because of this I cant take the mage quest serious.
Before you were sent to the future, Leliana and her agents killed every Venatori in Redcliff, but somehow lost the fight to Alexius, and even a batallion of Ferelden soldiers couldnt handed the might of Alexius ( who alone defeated the Inquisition assassins and the Ferelden army!.).
Alexius is a one man army!

And the fact that the ENTIRE TEMPLAR ORDER was corrupted if you side with the mages just made me dislike the Templars even more. Are they seriously stupid enough to allow the entire order to become corrupt? Did nobody ever notice the side effects?

[Master Warder Z_]

And the fact that the ENTIRE TEMPLAR ORDER was corrupted if you side with the mages just made me dislike the Templars even more. Are they seriously stupid enough to allow the entire order to become corrupt? Did nobody ever notice the side effects?

You gave them the time to convert and kill the rest, red lyrium is at best some rumor from a knight who heard it from a another knight who maybe heard hearsay about Kirkwall.

It's immediate effects are profound if you bother reading some of the notes around Therinfall. It's incredibly powerful and can make a recruit fight harder then a knight lieutenant.

Power is a addictive thing; so yes by the time the Venatori are dealt with you've give Samson and Denam more then enough time to basically kill or corrupt enough of the Order to form a army across Thedas.

[AresKeith]

And the fact that the ENTIRE TEMPLAR ORDER was corrupted if you side with the mages just made me dislike the Templars even more. Are they seriously stupid enough to allow the entire order to become corrupt? Did nobody ever notice the side effects?

 

And you know that's also a lie, those who did not turn into Red Templars or resisted were killed, the fact that you just tried to claim that all them did hurts your argument again