94 réponses à ce sujet

[Meave]

Ok, I didn't think it was necessary to say, but you know, I played the game as well. And I read codexes, World of Thedas, etc on top of that. Game + additional lore sources > game, deal with it I very well know not all codexes should be taken literally, because they are written from the perspective of their authors, but it is far more logical to base any claims on them than on something you entirely create in your head.

 

Tevinter mages don't go crazy anymore, because they don't rule the world anymore. They were beaten and Orlais is now even stronger than them. So they can't really do anything crazy. But look at what they are doing when they think they have a chance of winning - exactly everything they are rightfully feared for.

 

Lol, where did you get that Uldred has been possessed ever since he's arrived in the Circle? Let me gues, in your head. Uldred became possessed and turned into an abomination by the pride demon he summoned when Irving forbode him to leave the meeting that was deciding whether or not the mages should support Loghain. Seriously, if you just want to make stuff up, stop arguing, such debates are pointless.

 

Ofc Greagoir, like Natashina pointed out. He respected Irving and Irving respected him, even if they disagreed on many things. But the key word here is balance. The Ferelden Circle worked well because of those 2 men untill Uldred screwed everything up, because he was a mage with different opinion and he could.

 

 

 

He has only sent word for reinforcements and was requesting the Right of Annulment. It was not decided yet, but it probably would be, because there was no reason not to. There were hundreds of demons, abominations and blood mages in the tower, it was more logical to assume that every good mage is already dead or turned to an abomination as well. Yes, it is a cold logic, but try for a second to see the situation through the eyes of the Knight Commander, imagine the horrors he had seen over all those years, all the possessed mages, the blood magic, the failed harrowings... What would you have done? Wander there with the reinforcements and try to talk to every mage you encounter? Wait weeks for mages from other circles, buy out all of Orzammar's lyrium or hundreds of slaves and try to rescue every abomination you meet? No. There was no other way for the Knight Commander to resolve this than to chug down some lyrium and murder everything in sight. The risks were just too high and you have to consider the lives of the people living outside the Circle.

 

He only allows you to go in there because if you live, everybody wins, if not, the request for Right of Annulment would most likely be approved and reinforcements dispatched.

 

Ok, again, since it didn't go through the last time. If you wanna play the logic card here, present some actually logical arguments based on something from the game or additional lore materials, not based on your own imagination.

 

 

Btw I get it, you super like mages and if you said something like "I just want to see another magister empire rise and I want to see every templar burn in fiery inferno, since they are filthy lyrium junkies", I would understand. Just embrace your head cannon and stop presenting it as logic or evidences.

 

first of all lore beside in game doesn't even count cos it doesn't concern the game. It's like you were comparing Lord of the rings movie and books - huge differences. Not compatible. We are talking about the game here. If you base your arguments on that well - eee to say something nice or at least condescending - good for you... Apples and oranges? Ever heard of it?

 

Tevinter mages practice blood magic all the time. It doesn't matter if the want conquest or not, the point was they're not turning into demons and slaughtering everything. Tevinter is prospering empire which they could hardly accomplished if all they thought about is to "kill all human". Mage's sanity has nothing to do with using any kind of magic, therefor there is no need for templars.

 

I said when Uldred came to Circle, well maybe I should specify - I meant when he returned to Circle all demony and stuff...

 

Gregoair was already decided, go play the game again and pay more attention.

[XxPrincess(x)ThreatxX]

Tevinter is prospering empire? they really ain't, only reason the Qunari haven't crushed them utterly yet is because the rest of Thedas would likely see the threat immediately & restart the Qunari wars before they were ready for it

[Meave]

no one crushed Tevinter cos they are well organized and hold great military power. If they were all demony, everyone would just bite peaces of their land and they wouldn't even notice and if they did, they wouldn't care. So yes, they are prospering empire, they have no famine, their trade is good and no one rebels against them in larger scale than in other empires. There are thousands of mages without some chantr'y templar and they are doing just fine. Not to mention they been there quite a long time (thousand years or whatever)...

[X Equestris]

first of all lore beside in game doesn't even count cos it doesn't concern the game. It's like you were comparing Lord of the rings movie and books - huge differences. Not compatible. We are talking about the game here. If you base your arguments on that well - eee to say something nice or at least condescending - good for you... Apples and oranges? Ever heard of it?
 
Tevinter mages practice blood magic all the time. It doesn't matter if the want conquest or not, the point was they're not turning into demons and slaughtering everything. Tevinter is prospering empire which they could hardly accomplished if all they thought about is to "kill all human". Mage's sanity has nothing to do with using any kind of magic, therefor there is no need for templars.
 
I said when Uldred came to Circle, well maybe I should specify - I meant when he returned to Circle all demony and stuff...
 
Gregoair was already decided, go play the game again and pay more attention.

Actually, the books are very much canon.

no one crushed Tevinter cos they are well organized and hold great military power. If they were all demony, everyone would just bite peaces of their land and they wouldn't even notice and if they did, they wouldn't care. So yes, they are prospering empire, they have no famine, their trade is good and no one rebels against them in larger scale than in other empires. There are thousands of mages without some chantr'y templar and they are doing just fine. Not to mention they been there quite a long time (thousand years or whatever)...

Both the Chantry's Exalted Marches and the Qunari invasion only failed because of how defensible Minrathous was. In fact, during the Qunari Wars, the only part of Tevinter that was unoccupied was Minrathous.

If there were another Exalted March on Tevinter in the modern era, it would probably fall. Their mages are baffled by Templar abilities, Orlais alone is a match for them, and they can't even make headway against the Qunari in a campaign the Qunari are devoting minimal resources to. Make no mistake, Tevinter has been in decline for a while now.

[thats1evildude]

It just make no sense except for the Chantry which is really similar to one religious organization from real word (which is know for "kill all mages attitude").

 

Playing all three DA games well I think Bioware really hates mages and is pro-Maker.

 

Let's look at it from the beginning. Battle of Ostagar well, where are the mage forces? Why do you need to light up some stupid fire in a tower? Wouldn't fireball above the tower do better? Why doesn't any mage cast Storm of Ages upon the darkspawn? would kill like half of them with one spell... Why there are no fireballs or even beginners spells like grease light up with flaming arrows. Cast earthquake under enemy rangers are they pretty much won't hit anything.

 

1) Using magic to light the signal fire was suggested. It was nixed by the Chantry priest.

 

2) Not all mages are created equal. There may be no mages in the Ostagar camp even capable of casting Storm of the Century.

[Hellion Rex]

Storm of Ages the Century.

Couldn't resist.

[thats1evildude]

Couldn't resist.

 

Ah right, I never remember the spell names.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Let's keep the personal insults out of the thread, okay? Unless people want this thread closed and get warning points if not banned outright. 

[Akkos]

Mages that live outside the circle are those without emotions. When a mage unprotected is consumed by lousy emotions, it always get worse for them.

 

"Actually the depth of emotion you experience might draw demons to you more strongly."

 

That's why demons represents part of those emotions mages feel while they cast their spells. The templars are there to ease those emotions, but some of them go too far overprotecting obviously. Just like a parent trying to protect their children from unknown outsiders.

[Meave]

They fit all world states. This is supported by in game codex entries and NPC conversations.

 

well it can't. The world can't both does and doesn't have werewolves and/or golems. Important people you kill can't be both alive and dead. Customs change as people adapt. You can't say that people would do the same thing regardless the circumstances. You create your own world by making decisions and the world adapt and the story somewhat too. Those are the reasons why novels and other out of game lore is useless to game. If you had flat story line and no important decisions, that would be different song

[X Equestris]

well it can't. The world can't both does and doesn't have werewolves and/or golems. Important people you kill can't be both alive and dead. Customs change as people adapt. You can't say that people would do the same thing regardless the circumstances. You create your own world by making decisions and the world adapt and the story somewhat too. Those are the reasons why novels and other out of game lore is useless to game. If you had flat story line and no important decisions, that would be different song

They simply don't mention anything specific. Take the ending choice of DA2: it is always referred to obliquely, with things like "what happened in Kirkwall."

[Incantrix]

I think the largest element to why mages don't just cast "storm of the century" is because most mages can't. I'm going to go out on a limb and say 95% of the mages in andrastian circles can barely cast a potent fireball.

 

Fiona, Vivienne, Anders, Dorian, Wynne, Morrigan and (much to my chagrin) Merril are very powerful mages that can't be compared to the usual tripe they accept into the circles. 

[X Equestris]

I think the largest element to why mages don't just cast "storm of the century" is because most mages can't. I'm going to go out on a limb and say 95% of the mages in andrastian circles can barely cast a potent fireball.
 
Fiona, Vivienne, Anders, Dorian, Wynne, Morrigan and (much to my chagrin) Merril are very powerful mages that can't be compared to the usual tripe they accept into the circles.

Yeah, most mages can only cast a handful of spells that are useful in combat.

[Meave]

I think the largest element to why mages don't just cast "storm of the century" is because most mages can't. I'm going to go out on a limb and say 95% of the mages in andrastian circles can barely cast a potent fireball.

 

Fiona, Vivienne, Anders, Dorian, Wynne, Morrigan and (much to my chagrin) Merril are very powerful mages that can't be compared to the usual tripe they accept into the circles. 

 

hmmm? there is no evidence which would support this idea. And fireball? You can cast it on lvl 2 or 3, it's not some advanced spell.

[X Equestris]

hmmm? there is no evidence which would support this idea. And fireball? You can cast it on lvl 2 or 3, it's not some advanced spell.

Abilities open to player characters=/= abilities that everyone else in the setting has.

[Jeffry]

World state in this discussion is irrelevant. Since it affects very little in DAI. There is always mages vs templars war raging on. Plus the lore codexes are history, but you should really know them if you wanna argue about the game. Basing your claims on what you wish to be is just wrong on so many levels in a discussion

 

I wouldn't mind if this thread got locked. It doesn't serve as a constructive feedback to anybody, plus it is very annoying to argue with somebody, who just throws insults around when he runs out of arguments, which happens all the time. There were no logical arguments in the original post and there are no now after 4 pages, only more insults. Honestly, it is kinda pathetic.

[Meave]

World state in this discussion is irrelevant. Since it affects very little in DAI. There is always mages vs templars war raging on. Plus the lore codexes are history, but you should really know them if you wanna argue about the game. Basing your claims on what you wish to be is just wrong on so many levels in a discussion

 

I wouldn't mind if this thread got locked. It doesn't serve as a constructive feedback to anybody, plus it is very annoying to argue with somebody, who just throws insults around when he runs out of arguments, which happens all the time. There were no logical arguments in the original post and there are no now after 4 pages, only more insults. Honestly, it is kinda pathetic.

 

well you insulted me first, what did you expect? And for the thread ofc you want it to be closed cos you have no reasonable arguments and it proves that you're wrong not to mention you didn't start the thread. You just have your mind wrapped in all those codexes and out of the game literature (which is irrelevant) and you are convinced that you know everything about everything in game. Well, it's hard to have reasonable discussion with you so I am done with it. And to talk about pathetic, first you insult me and then you report me when I use the very same words you did so hmm let's leave it at that...

[DanteYoda]

I think the largest element to why mages don't just cast "storm of the century" is because most mages can't. I'm going to go out on a limb and say 95% of the mages in andrastian circles can barely cast a potent fireball.

 

Fiona, Vivienne, Anders, Dorian, Wynne, Morrigan and (much to my chagrin) Merril are very powerful mages that can't be compared to the usual tripe they accept into the circles. 

Not entirely true while i agree the companions are the pinnacle of mages, there are a fair few that can hold their own, sadly a lot fall prey to demons giving them power or hinting at it through blood magic,

 

I'm pretty sure most standard combat mages are quite ok in battle. I guess there are tiers of mages and levels but pretty sure most can defend themselves.. most..

 

 

hmmm? there is no evidence which would support this idea. And fireball? You can cast it on lvl 2 or 3, it's not some advanced spell.

To be honest, in most other Fantasy games Fireball is an advanced magic.

[Meave]

To be honest, in most other Fantasy games Fireball is an advanced magic.

 

I don't know what other games you have in mind, but all DnD based have fireball as tier 3 spell which can be cast by lvl 5 mage or lvl 6 sorceress and that's really low so yeah I gonna stick with beginner spell

[TheOgre]

Why? Because every mage is another Breach waiting to happen.

 

Maybe in DAO

 

in DAI, mages can't even do 1/12th the damage output a rogue, or reaver can put out hah.