34 réponses à ce sujet

[TJByrum]

I love BioWare's games, but I dislike how we never have a consistent team.

 

And this goes as far back as Knights of the Old Republic.  No I don't want Atton Rand on the Ebon Hawk, I want Carth Onasi in the cockpit.  I liked the team in the original game, and while the characters in KoTOR II weren't necessarily bad, I prefer having the original team.

 

It's like in Mass Effect you have a team in ME1, which changes by the time you get to ME2 (with the exception of those like Garrus and Tali), and then it changes again by ME3.

 

Personally, I'd like to see a consistent team in this next trilogy (I assume it'll be a trilogy).  Sure, add new characters to the team per game, but generally keep the core of the team, you know?

[KaiserShep]

In the event that this is a series that involves a single protagonist, I'd like to keep the companions consistent, but it's possible that this is a standalone story, making issues of importing from one game to the next unnecessary.

[TJByrum]

Understood Kaiser.

 

Though I have to say I much preferred the team in ME2 than any other team in the franchise, so I guess it was good that they changed at least once.  Mass Effect 2 is one of my favorite games, I'd probably rank it at #3.  I didn't feel the same sort of 'bond' in anyone else that I felt with Miranda, Thane, Grunt, Zaeed, Samara, etc.  Everyone in that crew was superb (except Jacob; never liked him).

 

I can't find any interest in people like Ashley, Kaiden, Liara, and Vega... meh.  I want them off the Normandy please.

[Han Shot First]

If the next game isn't a standalone, I agree that it is better to keep most of the companion characters around through however many games are in that series. I think in retrospect one of the mistakes made in ME2 was introducing a mostly new set of companion characters, each of whom could be killed in the Suicide Mission. 

 

As much as I like some of the ME2 characters, Bioware would have been better off using the same core cast from ME1 through all three games with the exception of a casualty or two, or a couple additions in ME2 and ME3. It creates a lot less variables to account for in the third chapter and the amount of time spent with that cast provides more opportunities for the player to get invested in those characters, as well as providing more time for the writers to develop those characters.

 

Also missions where every companion can die should be saved for the finale of the final game.

[RoboticWater]

KoTOR II was developed by an entirely different studio, Obsidian. The reason there weren't consistent teams in game was that there weren't consistent teams in real life. But regardless of development politics, the two games explored completely different aspects of Star Wars (BioWare took a more traditional route, and Obsidian a more nuanced one), so the near total replacement of the crew was warranted and quite necessary.

 

But to your point, I disagree entirely. For the most part, I loved the way BioWare handled the team transitions throughout the series. Not only did the new crew members give a new and interesting view to the universe, the old crew wasn't forced to stay static. Writers don't always foresee exactly where the plot will go and what precisely what themes they'll want to touch on (BioWare's writers more than most), so a dynamic squad gives them just a bit more (and much needed) creative freedom. They wouldn't need to be restricted to the same old perspectives or writing for a cast of ever expanding personalities. The gameplay would benefit as well, letting the designers insert totally new classes and powers without lore restrictions. 

 

More importantly, I think seeing our old friends in higher places commanding a team of their own gives the game a real sense of literal and emotional progression. The real world doesn't cater to us, and neither should Mass Effect's. Sometimes friends get a better job opportunity, have a family emergency, or just have to leave, and I think future Mass Effects should explore the emotional impacts of those changes. I stand by my belief that Mass Effect's narrative is the greatest trilogy ever achieved by games (despite it's major blunders), because it wasn't afraid to move the world without you.

 

I won't say that BioWare has to change up the squad each time, but there are distinct benefits to it.

 

That said, I don't want BioWare to forge those who move out of your immediate circle of friends. I hope all could get a treatment similar to Liara's or at the very least, Mordin's or Wrex's. 

[wright1978]

As a fan of the ME2 team i don't agree. I think making some changes was a good move, though maybe the balance could have been different.

It may be a moot point though as i'm not sure the next game will be part of a trilogy again.

[L. Han]

One way to make sure it 'feels' consistent is to keep the roster relatively small.

 

Unless they decide to implement something new.

[Han Shot First]

The problem with changing the cast of characters between games is that it guarantees that most of the former companions who didn't make the cut will get small cameos. That's not so much of an issue in a series like Dragon Age, where you are also playing as a different player character with each chapter. Hawke doesn't know Morrigan for example, so of course she's not going to be journeying with him. But it does become an issue in a series like the Shepard trilogy, where players become invested in the companion characters and the relationship that player character has with them. I've yet to see anyone praise the cameos for ME1 characters who didn't make ME2, or the cameos of ME2 characters in ME3. They also both were a frequent subject of criticism following the release of both games.

 

Assuming for a moment that ME:Next is the first game of a series (it may very well be a standalone), advocating for companion characters changeups between games is fine so long as it's understood that the inevitable consequence is going to something like the companion character cameos in ME2 or ME3.

[TJByrum]

I see where everyone is coming from on both perspectives, I guess I just like the idea of spending time with the characters through all of the games instead of just some.  The transitions did made sense in the grand scheme of things, I agree.

[RVallant]

I see where everyone is coming from on both perspectives, I guess I just like the idea of spending time with the characters through all of the games instead of just some.  The transitions did made sense in the grand scheme of things, I agree.

 

One way to make sure it 'feels' consistent is to keep the roster relatively small.

 

Unless they decide to implement something new.

 

Small teams could work, I always fall into the trap of sticking to a few regulars though and I suspect they need the variety for the different player classes.

 

I thought the change of crews made sense in the trilogy, it's probably likely that if they want to keep things simple (assuming they're making a new trilogy) then they may well decide to make sure the PC hero stays with one organisation throughout.

[Iakus]

One way to make sure it 'feels' consistent is to keep the roster relatively small.

 

Unless they decide to implement something new.

And don't make everyone killable in the middle of the story

[Heimdall]

A consistent team...  Okay, I'm not against the idea but part of what makes each new game interesting to boot up and play (For Me) is the prospect of exploring and getting to know new characters.  So I'd support part of the crew returning from game to game, but some need to leave when it makes sense to make room for new characters.

[themikefest]

If they have a consistent team of squadmates, I want to be able to trust those squadmates that come with me on missions. 

[Kabraxal]

IF it is a trilogy, then they do need to have far more stability and continuity in terms of team and even the ship.  Well I enjoy all three squads and ships to certain degrees, there was no sense of continuity between the three games really.  The squads changed far too much, the ships changed, and even the hub worlds changed for each game. ME was like a trilogy where the designers wanted a  different game with each entry instead of a tightly woven trilogy.  

 

That works for DA, where the protagonists change as well as the central areas.  But ME was supposed be far more tightly knit than it ended up being.

[Heimdall]

IF it is a trilogy, then they do need to have far more stability and continuity in terms of team and even the ship.  Well I enjoy all three squads and ships to certain degrees, there was no sense of continuity between the three games really.  The squads changed far too much, the ships changed, and even the hub worlds changed for each game. ME was like a trilogy where the designers wanted a  different game with each entry instead of a tightly woven trilogy.  

 

That works for DA, where the protagonists change as well as the central areas.  But ME was supposed be far more tightly knit than it ended up being.

I'd argue that each entry should be a "new game".  Each new entry is an opportunity to try new things and improve on old things.  Expending so many resources on returning elements undercuts the developers' ability to create new things to explore.  Give me new and improved ships.  Give me new hubs with new places to explore.  Sure, keep a few squadmates where it makes sense, but also give me new characters to explore and get to know.  If I just wanted all the same things from the last game, I'd play that game.

 

ME's problem was less a discontinuation of those elements as a problem with the main story itself.  The second game's main story was entirely tangential to the overarching story of the trilogy and pretty much ruined any sense of narrative flow between the games.

[Vazgen]

I think Bioware needs to use a smaller scale this time. No "Reapers", overly powerful villains that create an overarching plot for all the trilogy. Contain one story to one game. Use save import in the other and explore another story. Make alterations to the second story based on the decisions in the first. Nothing too major, but also nothing too minor to be considered unimportant. Companions should largely stay the same but new ones should also be introduced. Just don't dump a bunch of completely new characters all at once in the middle of a trilogy.

That's assuming they'll opt for save import. My gut tells me otherwise. Too many problems with not enough gain. A shame really, I think that's one of the defining features of Mass Effect.

[daselk]

After becoming very attached to the ME1 crew I wasn't super keen to get to know all these new randoms that ME2 threw at me. By the suicide mission however i was just as attached and was devastated when half my crew died in my first play-through. 2nd run was completionist and i made damn sure they all survived.

 

I'm fine with bringing in new blood, but still good to see where the old crew ends up.

 

BTW, they better use the save import for choices from ME4 onwards, as @Vazgen said, it really is a defining feature.

[Lavros]

I am of the mindset that a smaller core crew that could be added to or subtracted from throughout the story as needed would be the better choice. The benefits to this approach would be more developed story lines for the characters as well as an easier transition for adding individual or smaller groups of new characters into the crew later on in the series.

 

The departure or addition of characters should be an organic occurrence without the obvious intention of insulating the characters until the end of the series. Wrex comes to mind as a successful approach to this method while Ashley, Kaiden and Liara felt out of place to protect them from the suicide mission and its aftereffects.

 

On a side note I sincerely hope that they stick with the single protagonist and the save import function for the whole series. I think it is one of the major strengths of Mass Effect and while difficult to work with at times, provides the more satisfying game play experience when done properly.

[Kynare]

I wanted none of the ME1 companions as permanent companions in ME3. I actually wished that they would go off and be the captain of their own crews and ships where they could assist me in the final war. They all had established ranks before Shepard was reinstated, so why drop everything to go on the Normandy when we could kick ass and cover more ground everywhere? Surely there's plenty of able grunts who can fight the Reapers, peck away at dashboards and make pointless calibrations on the Normandy.

 

If anything, maybe we could have done specific ground missions together, like Garrus would've been in my party on Palaven, Liara on Thessia, Tali on the dreadnought, etc. In the case of the VS, would've been nice where we could have done Spectre-specific missions together.

 

I just don't like how all of the companions must turn so subordinate after meeting Shepard again. I would've loved to have a new crew who looked up to my original companions as they looked up to me. Big damn heroes. Garrus' Shadow Broker dossier irked me more than it should. "Potential overshadowed by Shepard"? It wasn't my fault! 

[Probe Away]

One way to make sure it 'feels' consistent is to keep the roster relatively small.

Unless they decide to implement something new.

I'm not so sure that's true. At the start of ME2 there were only 3 of your original 6 squadmates who were definitely alive, which made continuity difficult even before the suicide mission.

Having say, 8 squadmates in ME1 would have made it 5 out of 8. That way you would have had continuity with most of your squad carrying over, but there would still have been room for a couple of possible deaths.

Obviously it won't matter how big your squad is if you make a suicide mission in the middle of a trilogy where any of them can die...

[Mcfly616]

Hopefully it's a standalone game. Allows for more creativity. A more varied and wider branching narrative as well as outcomes. Allow any and every character to be killed off without the worry of making an import function for the following installment in order to bring back specific squadmates due to fan service. 

[Iakus]

Hopefully it's a standalone game. Allows for more creativity. A more varied and wider branching narrative as well as outcomes. Allow any and every character to be killed off without the worry of making an import function for the following installment in order to bring back specific squadmates due to fan service. 

THis.

 

Much as I think Dragon Age is doing imports better by changing locations and protagonists with each game, it's still only a delaying action.   I don't think the import system is overall sustainable.

[Mathias]

I went into this thread thinking "Consistent Team" meant consistent team developing the game. Which would be nice, I mean god knows it probably contributed to the drop in quality and consistency over the trilogy. 

 

As for the actual topic on hand, yeah a consistent team of squadmates would be nice. Honestly I'm hoping for another trilogy. One of the things that helped separate Mass Effect from Dragon Age is that it was one overarching story. That was one of the biggest appeals of the series. What's gonna happen next? 

[Pasquale1234]

Companion characters have always been one of my favorite aspects of Bioware games.

But after the massive megadump of new characters in ME2, I've not bothered to get to know James, Cortez, or Traynor. The carryovers from ME1&2 more than satisfy my interest for the PC to have personal relationships in the game.

If this is to be another series with the same protag, I would hope they would provide a couple of different LI options for each gender / orientation, and maintain them throughout the series.

[Iakus]

I went into this thread thinking "Consistent Team" meant consistent team developing the game. Which would be nice, I mean god knows it probably contributed to the drop in quality and consistency over the trilogy. 

 

As for the actual topic on hand, yeah a consistent team of squadmates would be nice. Honestly I'm hoping for another trilogy. One of the things that helped separate Mass Effect from Dragon Age is that it was one overarching story. That was one of the biggest appeals of the series. What's gonna happen next? 

Well, yeah, having that would be useful too