30 réponses à ce sujet

[Sifr]

I'm surprised no one has brought detail about one of the banter between Sera & Vivienne up yet, it's about Friends of Red Jenny being used by nobles to put their rival nobles out of the picture, and they're helping nobles more than little people. I got the impression that they weren't exactly good guy vigilante or the Merry Men who fight for the downtrodden, it doesn't matter which branch because the whole organization was just out there for themselves all along NOT to make things better for the little people, and Sera lack of full insight about her organization IMO.

 

Which makes me wonder if the three brothers in Starkhaven who were Jenny's might have been involved in the coup d'etat that lead to the death of Sebastian's family and the Vael's losing power? Or alternatively, if they were involved in the "prudent" dealing of rival nobles that Sebastian mentions his family often had to employ from time to time?

[Mikoto8472]

I don't think it was planned. I'm reminded of Cerberus in ME1 and ME2; in ME1 they were just a fairly obscure mention from a few side missions. It wasn't until they came to write the plot for ME2 that they elevated it to the important organisation it became. I assume the same thing happend to the Friends of Red Jenny, although I'm still interested in what if any connection there is between the Friends and Aveline (as alluded to in MotA)

 

 

This is pretty much what I assumed. I don't really think BioWare planned any sequels actually and DAO was intended as a one-shot game. But when it became popular of course they expanded on it and made sequels. I think Red Jenny was like Cerberus-just a small thing in DAO that the writers developed and expanded as the series went on.

[Digger1967]

So, a couple of nights ago I finished my second playthrough and I've been thinking about Sera and her friends.  Some time before Inquisition came out, there was a thread asking what we'd like to see explored in the game and myself (and a number of others) mentioned the Friends of Red Jenny, so I was happy when it was announced we'd get one of them as a companion.

 

Once I'd met Sera and had a feel for what the group was about, something about it was quite different from what I had developed in my head.

 

In Origins, we had one small fetch quest that involved no additional work/travel at all, but an interesting codex.  Basically a threatening letter advising the addressee do as they promised they could do.  It left me with an "illuminati" -esque vibe from the group, working in the shadows, pulling strings etc.

 

Then in DA2 we had the "clean the streets" quests, which was more overt, some optional work with in game reward.  Still had the feeling - to me at least - of this group that sat behind powerful people and were directing events as they saw fit, although with a hint of the nature that would be revealed in Inquisition in the line "We friends like a clean city to play in".

 

Finally, Inquisition revealed that the group is all about 'the little people', meaning common folk, not dwarves, sticking it to the rich and powerful that ignore and/or hurt them.  I certainly have no problem with this being the truth of the group, and maybe - as Sera mentions that it is different all around - it might not be the 'whole' truth of the group.  But it did get me thinking.

 

Are we seeing the Red Jenny that was always planned?

 

Are we seeing a Red Jenny that has evolved as it needed to and as Bioware saw that a number of players were interested in learning more about the group?

 

Or are we seeing an internal retcon - and I hate the word retcon, but can't think of a better one.  As far as I'm concerned, if they hadn't told us the truth about the group beforehand and then changed it, it isn't a retcon - that was performed to suit the story of Inquisition as they needed/wanted a connection from the common people of Thedas to the Inquisitor?

 

Or is it some combination of the above?

 

So, thoughts - did anyone else feel the Friends weren't quite what you were expecting them to be?  Or did I miss something obvious in the first two games that should have pointed the way?

 

Or maybe the folks behind Red Jenny are a even craftier and more skilled than we can imagine, basically recruiting a bunch of misfits and downtrodden and convincing them that they are doing this wonderful thing when in truth a lot of these folks, like Sera, don't even realize they are actually being used as pawns in a much larger game.  They make not only very useful "foot soldiers" and gathers of information, but they also keep the group behind them shrouded in mystery because they themselves have no idea that the people they are working with are actually manipulating them into getting whatever the desired end result might be.

 

If someone goes looking for the "Friends of Red Jenny", well eventually they find someone like Sera who will honestly and forthrightly tell them all about the group - but of course no one at that level, including Sera herself realizes that there is much more to the Friends than what she knows.  As a result anyone looking will inevitably run into someone like Sera and stop looking, keeping the group behind them well hidden and shrouded in secrecy.

[Neon Rising Winter]

Or maybe the folks behind Red Jenny are a even craftier and more skilled than we can imagine, basically recruiting a bunch of misfits and downtrodden and convincing them that they are doing this wonderful thing when in truth a lot of these folks, like Sera, don't even realize they are actually being used as pawns in a much larger game.  They make not only very useful "foot soldiers" and gathers of information, but they also keep the group behind them shrouded in mystery because they themselves have no idea that the people they are working with are actually manipulating them into getting whatever the desired end result might be.

 

Be a bit silly to create something a little bit different to the usual hierarchy you see in these types of games, instead suggest a genuinely distributed structure then turn around and say no we're going with the well worn cliche instead. Turning the old cliches into something interesting would be a better way to go!

 

As for whether they thought of it in this form originally. I'd say more undefined. They'd settled on the kind of things they did and the kind of arenas they operated in, but is there anything that suggests someone had drawn up an org chart?

[DragonKingReborn]

Or maybe the folks behind Red Jenny are a even craftier and more skilled than we can imagine, basically recruiting a bunch of misfits and downtrodden and convincing them that they are doing this wonderful thing when in truth a lot of these folks, like Sera, don't even realize they are actually being used as pawns in a much larger game.  They make not only very useful "foot soldiers" and gathers of information, but they also keep the group behind them shrouded in mystery because they themselves have no idea that the people they are working with are actually manipulating them into getting whatever the desired end result might be.

 

If someone goes looking for the "Friends of Red Jenny", well eventually they find someone like Sera who will honestly and forthrightly tell them all about the group - but of course no one at that level, including Sera herself realizes that there is much more to the Friends than what she knows.  As a result anyone looking will inevitably run into someone like Sera and stop looking, keeping the group behind them well hidden and shrouded in secrecy.

 

Genius.

 

New headcanon approved.

[onomatomania]

Interesting.  Definitely haven't heard that one yet.  Thanks!

 

This is the dialogue, from the wiki :

Vivienne: 	I have something for your silly group, Sera dear.
Sera: 		Right, I bet you have plenty.
Vivienne: 	A simple note for your Red Jenny associates. I believe it may point to anonymous holdings of one Lord Samerath.
Sera: 		I know him! Pisshead's hard as ice with his people.
Vivienne: 	Indeed. It would be a shame if his involvement in certain activities was revealed, his position at court weakened.
Sera: 		So, we hurt a real ******! But you swoop in? We help people, but it helps you more? (Frustrated growl.)
Vivienne: 	Try not to cry openly, dear, it is ever so demeaning.

Or maybe the folks behind Red Jenny are a even craftier and more skilled than we can imagine, basically recruiting a bunch of misfits and downtrodden and convincing them that they are doing this wonderful thing when in truth a lot of these folks, like Sera, don't even realize they are actually being used as pawns in a much larger game.  They make not only very useful "foot soldiers" and gathers of information, but they also keep the group behind them shrouded in mystery because they themselves have no idea that the people they are working with are actually manipulating them into getting whatever the desired end result might be.

 

If someone goes looking for the "Friends of Red Jenny", well eventually they find someone like Sera who will honestly and forthrightly tell them all about the group - but of course no one at that level, including Sera herself realizes that there is much more to the Friends than what she knows.  As a result anyone looking will inevitably run into someone like Sera and stop looking, keeping the group behind them well hidden and shrouded in secrecy.

 

Building on the point above : Sera has a clear need to believe that the Friends of Red Jenny are a simple help-the-little-guy type of organization. That makes her easy to use, either by nobles in their respective Games or by puppetmasters behind the entire Red Jenny organization. On the other hand, Sera's acting on her beliefs, and thus making her side of the Friends into exactly the sort of organization she needs it to be. She's no fool. _{(Even though her first Tarot card is pretty much the Fool.)}

 

As for the retcon discussion, it would be really interesting if the writers had this in mind for the Jennies all along! If they didn't, though, no harm done. And I mean that literally - if the Jennies went from throwaway name in DA:O to an organization with a method and a purpose in DA:I, for me, that doesn't invalidate anything from the previous games or cause a critical unsuspension of disbelief. No harm done. They just fleshed out a part of the story, and fleshing something out by necessity changes it. _{(If you don't believe me, ask Cole. He knows all about changing as one is fleshed out.)}

 

(edit : just trying to get the dialogue to where the lines are justified, and then had to add the line about Cole)