114 réponses à ce sujet

[Vortex13]

I think they should bring back heavy weapons, but have it be a soldier class exclusive. 

 

 

That would be a pretty cool way to help distinguish the classes, while at the same time keep them balanced. 

 

 

Going with the three 'primary' classes of Soldier, Adept, and Engineer, I can see their areas of expertise; and class specific abilities; come into play during different scenarios.

 

 

For example: An enemy force is retreating and has closed a blast door. Approaching the situation the PC can handle the problem of the blast door in several ways.

 

Diplomatic/Intimidation: The player can talk to the enemy force over comms and try to convince/threaten them to open the door. (Common to all players)

 

Engineer Specific: The player can hack into the security systems and release the lock down, or hot-wire the blast door controls to disengage the locks.

 

Adept Specific: The player gets a prompt to use their mastery over biotic fields to stop the blast door from completely closing.

 

Soldier Specific: The player can blow up the blast door with the use of their equipped heavy weapon.

[Nitrocuban]

Class specific options in dialogues, extended quicktime events in cutscenes and stuff is cool, but if ME4 has Heavy Weapons they should be usable for every class and also in MP (droped from a shuttle cause there is still no time for aerial bombardment or as fully integrated 6th weapon type, what ever).

 

I agree that soldiers should have something special, but exclusive HWs is too much imho.

[Undead Han]

Heavy weapons make sense for a soldier exclusive IMO, because soldiers are a less ability-based class than the others. They are mostly focused on the pew pew. Without giving them some sort of weapon bonus there isn't really enough incentive to play that class, when biotics or tech-based classes also get access to all the same weapons.

[Pasquale1234]

Heavy weapons make sense for a soldier exclusive IMO, because soldiers are a less ability-based class than the others. They are mostly focused on the pew pew. Without giving them some sort of weapon bonus there isn't really enough incentive to play that class, when biotics or tech-based classes also get access to all the same weapons.

Prior to ME2, durability (heavy armor, immunity, health regen) was the soldier's stock in trade.

Prior to ME3, the ability to use any weapon type was a distinct advantage for a soldier.

A few other (probably lame) ideas that might make the soldier class more interesting again going forward:
-- Class specific heavy melee move
-- Much higher weight limit - necessary if HW would return
-- Unlimited (or a high limit on) grenades with ammo powers
-- Ultra-speedy weapon swap

[Vortex13]

Prior to ME2, durability (heavy armor, immunity, health regen) was the soldier's stock in trade.

Prior to ME3, the ability to use any weapon type was a distinct advantage for a soldier.

A few other (probably lame) ideas that might make the soldier class more interesting again going forward:
-- Class specific heavy melee move
-- Much higher weight limit - necessary if HW would return
-- Unlimited (or a high limit on) grenades with ammo powers
-- Ultra-speedy weapon swap

 

 

 

I like that, make it so that the Soldier is the only class that can carry a heavy weapon and a primary & secondary weapon and still have a negative cooldown time. The other classes can equip a heavy weapon but that is the only thing they can carry without going into a positive cooldown time, and even then they would be a the default (+0%) cooldown rate..

[Drone223]

The weight system was a neat idea in ME3 since it meant that people have to carefully choose their weapons in order to balance out cool downs. In the next title soldiers should have no weight penalty since they are a weapon focused class but the rest should still have weight penelties.

[Malanek]

Th weight system was a neat idea in ME3 since it meant that people have to carefully choose their weapons in order to balance out cool downs. In the next title soldiers should have no weight penalty since they are a weapon focused class but the rest should still have weight penelties.

I still think there should be some sort of weight penalty on soldiers because you still want to make the soldier consider which type of weapons they want to carry rather than just pick from the heaviest. But there should be a much bigger allowance given to the soldier compared to the other classes. I also think weight could effect more than just cooldowns, in extreme cases slowing down movement speed like the gethspitfire does. And they could add a weight variable to armor giving the soldier another dynamic. I think weight is a good idea but wasn't balanced too well in ME3.

[Lee T]

Really? For me that is one of the most frustrating mechanic in ME1 and 2: Having to put points into skills I won't use because otherwise I can't unlock the skill I actually want.

RPGs are about choice and consequence, their lovechild is called frustration. You can tell Far Cry 4 is not a RPG because while it uses skills, xp, and other tropes your character can (and will if you wander around between campaign quests) end up maxing everything before the ending of the game.

[Vazgen]

RPGs are about choice and consequence, their lovechild is called frustration. You can tell Far Cry 4 is not a RPG because while it uses skills, xp, and other tropes your character can (and will if you wander around between campaign quests) end up maxing everything before the ending of the game.

Then limit the skill points, or raise XP requirement for leveling. Right now I have to put two points in Combat Drone and two points in Cryo Blast to unlock AI Hacking. I essentially waste 6 points on powers I won't use at all. I agree on having limitations, but I don't want those limitations force me to waste skill points. There are a lot of systems that can work that out. Buying/finding schematics to unlock skills, low amount of skill points, being trained (like DA specializations). Unlocking a totally unrelated skill to unlock what you want is not the best way to go about it. 

[StealthGamer92]

Class specific options in dialogues, extended quicktime events in cutscenes and stuff is cool, but if ME4 has Heavy Weapons they should be usable for every class and also in MP (droped from a shuttle cause there is still no time for aerial bombardment or as fully integrated 6th weapon type, what ever).

 

I agree that soldiers should have something special, but exclusive HWs is too much imho.

I agree but ristrict them by only giving certain ones to certain class'. As in 3 heavy weapons in Tech(electric) Biotic(physics based) and Combat(damage) effect plus give a rapid fire missile type(like ME2) to only the Soldier and Soilder-Hybrid classes.

[Pasquale1234]

Then limit the skill points, or raise XP requirement for leveling. Right now I have to put two points in Combat Drone and two points in Cryo Blast to unlock AI Hacking. I essentially waste 6 points on powers I won't use at all. I agree on having limitations, but I don't want those limitations force me to waste skill points. There are a lot of systems that can work that out. Buying/finding schematics to unlock skills, low amount of skill points, being trained (like DA specializations). Unlocking a totally unrelated skill to unlock what you want is not the best way to go about it.

Wouldn't that have the same net effect?

The problem with removing any obstacles to your desired skills is similar to the problems associated with removing any other class restrictions: it's a lot harder to keep everything balanced.

Then there's the ability to completely re-allocate all of your skill point investments at will, another relatively recent addition to RPGs. That makes it pretty easy to tailor skills to each upcoming battle, using metagame knowledge of the enemies you will face.

The net result leads to characters being OP, and players complaining about combat being too easy. So they ramp up the difficulty a few more notches, making it harder and harder for anyone who isn't interested in studying combat mechanics and builds to successfully complete the game. It creates a further divide between those who are in it primarily for the characters and story versus those who really love challenging action combat.

The combat scenarios are always designed around the mechanics. If there are no prerequisite skills, they need to design early battles to compensate. If there are no class restrictions, they need to design every battle to be winnable by characters with any possible combination of skills at any difficulty level. That's a pretty tall order, but if they don't, they'll disappoint some portion of the player base.

[Malanek]

Wouldn't that have the same net effect?

The problem with removing any obstacles to your desired skills is similar to the problems associated with removing any other class restrictions: it's a lot harder to keep everything balanced.

Then there's the ability to completely re-allocate all of your skill point investments at will, another relatively recent addition to RPGs. That makes it pretty easy to tailor skills to each upcoming battle, using metagame knowledge of the enemies you will face.

The net result leads to characters being OP, and players complaining about combat being too easy. So they ramp up the difficulty a few more notches, making it harder and harder for anyone who isn't interested in studying combat mechanics and builds to successfully complete the game. It creates a further divide between those who are in it primarily for the characters and story versus those who really love challenging action combat.

The combat scenarios are always designed around the mechanics. If there are no prerequisite skills, they need to design early battles to compensate. If there are no class restrictions, they need to design every battle to be winnable by characters with any possible combination of skills at any difficulty level. That's a pretty tall order, but if they don't, they'll disappoint some portion of the player base.

I think this is a bit of a stretch. It is a lot easier to balance say an Engineer who can max any 4 of the 6 engineering skills compared to a character who max 4 of any skills in the game. In ME3 Tactical cloak and any high cooldown power (like Flare for instance) got very silly. If a Vanguard could pick Annihilation field and combine it with Nova it would be completely broken, yet the powers are interesting and perfectly fine on their own without unintended abuse. Those problems can be avoided if the skills you pick are within your own class.

 

I don't want to waste points on skills I don't use. It's just frustrating even if the game is balanced around it. But I do want restrictions on which skills you can pick. Not only for balance but also variation of play. If I play through the game again, or whenever I am playing multiplayer, I want it to play differently from last time, and have as many variations as possible. This would be enhanced by not forcing certain skills to be picked.

[Vazgen]

Wouldn't that have the same net effect?

The problem with removing any obstacles to your desired skills is similar to the problems associated with removing any other class restrictions: it's a lot harder to keep everything balanced.

Then there's the ability to completely re-allocate all of your skill point investments at will, another relatively recent addition to RPGs. That makes it pretty easy to tailor skills to each upcoming battle, using metagame knowledge of the enemies you will face.

The net result leads to characters being OP, and players complaining about combat being too easy. So they ramp up the difficulty a few more notches, making it harder and harder for anyone who isn't interested in studying combat mechanics and builds to successfully complete the game. It creates a further divide between those who are in it primarily for the characters and story versus those who really love challenging action combat.

The combat scenarios are always designed around the mechanics. If there are no prerequisite skills, they need to design early battles to compensate. If there are no class restrictions, they need to design every battle to be winnable by characters with any possible combination of skills at any difficulty level. That's a pretty tall order, but if they don't, they'll disappoint some portion of the player base.

I'd like to mention that ME3 does not have skill requirements. It instead applies level locks to powers, which is admittedly not very balanced due to low requirements and very fast leveling. ME3 is said to be easy not because of every skill's availability but because of completely devastating power combos and lack of protection layers on basic enemies. Locking skills with others does not attribute to balance because one power is not more powerful compared to another, they are simply different. 

Let's take a look at ME2 Engineer

At level 30 you have 51 skill points (or 54 if you retrain) and you can max 5 skills and put two points in the sixth. So, such build is possible

Heavy Overload

Heavy Incinerate

Explosive Combat Drone

Full Cryo Blast

2 points in AI Hacking

Operative

 

It has ways to deal with the two most common layers of protection, three crowd control powers and fast recharge speed due to Operative bonuses. Let's now assume there is a skill point limit and your points at max level will only be enough to max 4 skills. Which do you think is more overpowered?

I finished the game using only Overload, AI Hacking and Inferno Grenade. Why did I have to spend 4 points on Combat Drone and Cryo Blast only to be able to use AI Hacking?

[RedCaesar97]

 

Let's take a look at ME2 Engineer

At level 30 you have 51 skill points (or 54 if you retrain) and you can max 5 skills and put two points in the sixth. 

 

Something is wrong with your game if you end up with more than 51 points at level 30 in ME2. Note however, there is a glitch related to Dominate, where you can get more points if you retrain powers and spec in and out of Dominate and other bonus powers, you can get extra points.

[Vazgen]

Something is wrong with your game if you end up with more than 51 points at level 30 in ME2. Note however, there is a glitch related to Dominate, where you can get more points if you retrain powers and spec in and out of Dominate and other bonus powers, you can get extra points.

My ME2 memory is sketchy, I do remember that I had 5 skills maxed and two points in the sixth on my last Infiltrator. Could've been that Dominate glitch, since I retrained a few times on that character.