45 réponses à ce sujet

[veramis]

I've been non-stop playing her on perilous with any team comp. Barrier or no, Lego or no, hell I've run it with 3 rouges 2 of which were assassins. She does fantastic pretty consistently. It's my favorite class and I'm not sure I'll stop playing her when I hit 250. She can clutch rooms in a pinch, do fantastic dps, has good survivability, and provides fantastic cc. If she was buffed it would be too easy.

 

It's nice that you're playing reaver on perilous, but the fact is most people wouldn't choose it over the usual perilous classes. Aside from AW, lego, and templar, I have to be a lot more careful to survive than if I were to play a ranged class. Simply put, most ranged classes don't have to take the risks that the reaver does and some can still do similar or even better DPS.

 

A melee character will almost always be taking more damage than ranged classes simply because they have to be at a closer range to fight and have higher threat generation, which makes some melee classes quite less survivable relative to ranged classes. You say that the reaver would be too easy if her survivability were buffed, and I agree that it would be boring if the game didn't have challenge, but the point I am trying to make is that most other classes are more survivable than the reaver and when you play the more OP classes you won't have to so frequently flirt with death as with the reaver, which can also be seen in your reaver build video.

 

Again, the point I'm trying to make is that the reaver is less survivable compared to many ranged classes, and the nerf to dragon rage was unnecessary and unwise unless it is accompanied by additional balance changes, whether in the form of buffs to the reaver or nerfs to other classes. I don't think that buffing the reaver is the only way that balance can occur, and what I would like to see is for balance between the classes to occur while still maintaining challenge, but what we got instead was a nerf to a class that is already rarely played on perilous.

[DrKilledbyDeath]

The basis of the Reaver is you get stronger as you are lower on health. Considering you can die in 1 hit, what good is the class? It's not like you can walk around perilous at 100hp the whole time and make it through. You are living on the edge in perilous if you aren't at full health and you can't heal more than enemies can damage you on that level.

[ZorbletSplendor]

The thing is though. She's not. Not even close. Not even in the same league. She's insanely survivable. Just because you're low doesn't mean you're dead. It just means you're meaner. Your hp pool is just a tool. As long as it's not 0 you're fine. Fear is the only thing making it a factor. 

[DrKilledbyDeath]

The thing is though. She's not. Not even close. Not even in the same league. She's insanely survivable. Just because you're low doesn't mean you're dead. It just means you're meaner. Your hp pool is just a tool. As long as it's not 0 you're fine. Fear is the only thing making it a factor. 

Those archers must be terrified until they realize they can drop you from across the room with 1 shot.

[Robbiesan]

The thing is though. She's not. Not even close. Not even in the same league. She's insanely survivable. Just because you're low doesn't mean you're dead. It just means you're meaner. Your hp pool is just a tool. As long as it's not 0 you're fine. Fear is the only thing making it a factor. 

 

 

I see both sides of this Reaver discussion. 

 

In truth, even before the Reaver balance change, on Threatening I'd see players wiping early.  As I have mentioned in other threads, playstyle makes such a difference, and especially on Perikous.  Based on my learning lessons (flank, don't tank) I usually clean up on Threatening with Reaver, but I am super careful, knowing how easy she can be downed.

 

I do also see other's points about melee classes being too squishy as well.  Sometimes you play well, but can take an arrow or two be downed easily.

 

The armor system certainly needs tweaking.  Melee class should simply be tankier and able to absorb more damage than ranged units.

 

There is more balancing to be done in this regard.  Would I play Reaver on Perilous in her current condition: absolutely!  And it helps if you have a good team who understand how to aggro and control enemy movements.

[Beerfish]

I have no clue how to spec this class not to be face plant city.  You can do tremendous damage and clear things up pretty fast especially if you have a team mate cast a crowd control spell.  But a class that doesn't have a ton of protection to begin with that has abilities that make you lose health sucks.  I have seen one or two great ones that are good at survival but most I come across including me eat dirt too much.

[DrKilledbyDeath]

You need someone else around who can take agro, I always hate playing Reaver with 3 ranged people. You know you'll end up in the Fade in no time.

[ZorbletSplendor]

Archers are incredibly low on my list of worries as reaver. Maybe their stagger elemental arrow shots? Those are..... Annoying? I guess? The only problem I have with them is when I enter a room with no back up and tank literally all of them. And then it's not them. Its me being too bloodthirsty. The vast majority of people also run warhorn for the mass archers. Granted I don't.... But that's an entirely different rant. 3 ranged backing up a reaver is the very vast majority of games I play. No love for warriors sadly.... Works out fine. Every class brings something to the table. Cc, long range damage, protection, or worse case a warm body pincushion. 

 

That being said the arguement here is was the reaver nerf needed. And I'm going to say yes. She was simply too mindless strong with it. There were no trade offs and your only weakness was your CD on rampage. Also if rampage was tier 1 before the nerf (10% all) then it was changed to tier 2 (20% all) post nerf. I can't recall if it was in fact tier 1 on release. I'm sure there's a video somewhere I could consult. But if that is the case I would take this trade anyday. Double healing from everything but no longer healing from dragon rage plus better attackspeed and damage? Sign me up.

 

Additionally I will agree the combat system in this is whacked. It feels like the speed of the game was made to be much slower and then all damage numbers were upped to make it go by faster. It's..... Strange... But it can be worked around. 

[Beerfish]

What is your build and gear set up Zorblet?

[that guy29]

Now granted I do still play the reaver the problem I run into is what's been said on here is that she takes to much damage and in that fact when you lose HP I really barley she the increase in dmg. Now I do play her on perilous and she works. Ok. Trust me I know how to use her and I have not very good gear so I do the best I can with her but the point being is that the reason I say rampage is broken is because she doesn't really have anything that makes her stand out very good compared to other classes. She had rampage before that did make her stand out. Where now she gets killed pretty easy and a katari has a better chance than her it feels. Which is not right btw. The problem is that without the rampage how it was is that she is way to easily killed and isn't much of a threat really at all. Ya I get the whole you use it for DPS and what not but honestly there is no defense in the game for a two handed. You can't make a reaver last as long as a Lego or even a temp for that matter because two handed don't really have a defense and there not meant to so your pretty forced to use high DPS so when rampage wasn't broken it gave the reaver that defense. There is no medium between a two handed. It's either your high DPS or your a useless char. So if rampage went back to how it was then she would have defense. If anyone should be nerfed it should be AW because that dude is so broken not even dagna could repair it

[Robbiesan]

That's the thing many players with Reaver/Katari don't do: allow team to aggro, then flank attack.  I see too many trying to tank it, and that is usually why they faceplant (said from experience).  I literally wait until another player takes aggro, then watch where enemies move, walk up behind them and destroy.  By following this simple tactic you should really receive little to no damage, and still be highly effective as DPS.

 

Keep in mind though that even if you have not drawn aggro, you can still be hit with ranged attacks simply by being in the way.  You have to be aware of that.  That is part of situational awareness.  The Reaver can deal high damage, but is squishy as tissue paper.  Play her that way.

 

You know, I haven't played a lot of Perilous, but one day I decided to take my L19 Reaver in for a run (pre-Reaver balance).  Can't fully remember the team composition, but iirc we had a couple of Elementalists and an Archer.  Using the tactics I have described, my Reaver absolutely destroyed everything without downing once.  End score: Reaver 1st 105kills, rest of team 1/3 of this.  Damn, I wish I had recorded this session but I really didn't expect it would go that well.  All that said, could I still do this with the current Reaver's status?  Not sure, but willing to give it a go.

 

Anyhow, it's doable, and ultimately that's the thing we need to take away from this thread.

 

Like so much in Life, what you have is one thing, what you do with it is another.  A race car is the hands of a noob is one thing, but give that race car to a pro...

[ZorbletSplendor]

I'm running devour (no upgrade), ring of pain (upgraded), dragon-rage (upgraded) and rampage. I really hate warhorn. But I'll still recommend it to people over ring of pain. I've been using ring of pain as my "things are about to get real" button. The increased damage you get when low synergizes well with moments where you really just need to get healthy fast. I grab all the passive in the reaver tree except the stats one, unrelenting chain, and the one hidden behind I think challenge? I can't even remember what passive is hidden back there.... Anyway after that I go down the other tree down the center all the way to the bottom. Crippling blows on the side of the tree is fantastic... But I'm not sure if it works so I haven't been using it. 

 

Gear I have axe of the dragon hunter. I'd prefer suilvans if I had one. Belt I have a superb belt of health though a ranged, melee, or fire belt does fine. Amulet I'm using superb amulet of stamina which is absolutely game changing and really allows the reaver to shine. The rings I'm currently using are superb life drain and crit chance. However next time I play I'll be swapping them around. I'll be dropping at least one for a crit damage. Maybe both.

 

Also op very rarely you can still relive the glory days. Sometimes it bugs and lets you heal from dragon rage. I've seen it do all sorts of wonky things. On the other hand I failed a 5/5 venatori yesterday because sometimes when you have enough ping rampage stops healing.... That was really sad. Last man standing. Totally could have clutched it...

 

Well said Robbiesan.

 

Edit for below :

Boat with anything was a freaking nightmare. His willpower. Holy hell. Here I am sitting at 19 thinking I do good damage. Lord have mercy with him. Archer though... Long shot... That skill....  And opportunity knocks and by an extent flow of battle. All are very very strong. Unresonably so. Potato warrior. Well. There's nothing to be said about him that hasn't been said on this forum enough times to make regular goers eyes bleed. 

[veramis]

 

That being said the arguement here is was the reaver nerf needed. And I'm going to say yes. She was simply too mindless strong with it.

 

Pre-nerf reaver could have very high DPS and with enough cunning and/or axe of the dragon hunter could have almost indefinite rampage+dragon rage combo because of the poorly thought out flow of battle passive. I thought reaver DPS needed to be nerfed after seeing Boatzu reaver (over 40% crit chance) pretty much solo entire rooms and bosses in record time, but at the same time many other classes deserve much more than the reaver to be nerfed (if that's the route of balancing you prefer), and in the case of AW and archer, deserve to be nerfed into the ground.

[Beerfish]

How about if we nerf the weapons like axe of the dragon hunter instead of the actual class?

 

Not every one has a great two handed weapon or hok ring, or superb stamina belt.

 

Play the class again with non ideal weapons and items and it you still clean up then a person has a point about class nerfing but from what I have seen the Reaver is no where near many other classes as far as overall success goes when played by most players.

[ZorbletSplendor]

Knew that was coming. Shame...... Very well. Will do "challenge run" with full subpar gear. 

[Senor Pez]

Did they just stealth-change this, or are there patch notes somewhere?

[Beerfish]

Knew that was coming. Shame...... Very well. Will do "challenge run" with full subpar gear. 

And what are your ability scores as well?  Just for curiosity sake.

[Jkregers]

You're arguing that original intention is more important than balance, but the only thing that matters is whether or not the class is actually viable enough that players use it. If you ask most people, they would say that the reaver doesn't carry her weight on perilous and anyone who plays perilous knows that she is seldom used, especially post-nerf. Since the game was released, it has been very common for people to stack ranged classes and AW, because simply put the game strongly favors and increasingly favors these classes over melees.

 

No, I wasn't arguing that. I believe in balance above all things, I was just making a point about how the skill should work (the way it currently does). Other options should be added that increase survivabilty for the Reaver class. 

 

Dragon Rage as it is now is fine for routine and threatening, but the reaver class is not fine on perilous. If the other reaver abilities (or innate/armor damage reduction as I suggested above) were rebalanced to make the reaver good for perilous despite the nerf, then I would agree with you that Dragon Rage is fine. But as it is now, the already rare reavers have simply become even rarer on perilous post-nerf. And they and other melee classes will keep on getting rarer as players stack more ranged classes, get higher DPS, and just mow down mobs from a safe distance long before the melee classes can reach them.

 

The balancing of barrier vs. guard/tanking in this game are atrocious...melee (tank) classes need a huge overhaul that makes them the main source of damage/aggro mitigation for the party. One mage can be your long distance damage dealer, your crowd control, and your primary defense? Barrier should be a secondary defense if aggro is broken and should absorb a couple hits ...I said this in another thread, and I still believe it...someone should be fired or making race car games. 

 

Edited this a billions times --- I accidentally addressed tank classes above...but 2-handed classes should be major damage dealers. 

[ottffsse]

I think reaver is the most high risk / high reward class in damp. it is sort of the assasin class among the warriors - and should be used in a similar way (on higher difficulties you should really know when to stop your onslought and retreat and flank or wait for rampage to cool down and continue the attack, rampage is a bit like your stealth). playing the class more, one gets to know when to use a few hits of dragon rage, when to combine it with rampage, and when to use a war horn either defensively or as a last shot to distrupt attacking opponents and finish them off. but unless you have a good keeper teammate in perilous, it will be hard not to die unless you have something like a +15/20% heal on kill modifier. but I also find it much more fun to play than lego or templar. 

[TeamLexana]

The nerf just seems like a lazy way to fix the old rampage glitch that peeps would cry to high heaven over rampage bugging out and not working, so now it's supposed to be that way if you are dragon raging it up, like I said LAZY PATCH FIX.

[Draining Dragon]

I was going to write a witty comment, but I have to go. My ram is paging me.