46 réponses à ce sujet

[coldflame]

Yah, the 8-slot limit is stupid. Before the game came out those fan boys/girls kept saying to wait until the game came out to try it first. Now that I have tried it, it is even more ****** stupid than I had thought.

[JaegerBane]

I'll give you a reason to change your mind. Radial wheel. In Origins and DAII you could open up your radial menu choose any spell you had which was on the wheel.

We didn't have a six ability limit in Origins and 2. So the believe that consoles inspired the 8 ability limit is erroneous at best and completely moronic and asinine at worst.

There is the theory that the devs wanted us to think about allocating our ability points carefully by choosing the best skills. Though I find it weird that the AI companions can use ALL their abilities.

The argument about whether the limited buttons on a controller created the 8 slot limit isn't really anything to do with what the previous games did - as you say, the fact they had a radial wheel makes that irrelevant. The argument is that, since the devs wanted the game to play faster, direct button mapping was the model chosen (since radial menus would have slowed the game down) which left them with little choice but to institute the limit. Put simply, direct button mapping on a keyboard could have gone much further than 8 keys. Torchlight 2 had ~12, and that didn't even have a pause function. It is plainly obvious the 8 limit slot was a console-induced limitation, as a system which divides the consoles action buttons into two groups wouldn't be able to cope with any more than 8.

All that being said, that isn't the fault of console controllers. It's bioware's fault for trying to stick with an old system on a new style of game. Blizzard did this kind of thing just fine on Diablo 3 for console. It was obvious this was going to be an issue but I'm guessing it was a bit of groupthink that got it through the design meetings... That, or they shifted the guy who came up with DA2's recycled dungeon idea from level design to UI dev.

[AxholeRose]

My reply was to OP's concern about having had an unwanted ability (grappling chain) from the get go, or at least that's how I took it. So, if you don't want to unlock any abilities in a tree but are stuck automatically with the first one and it takes up one of your precious 8 slots... respec and DON'T pick that ability up. Easy peasy.  

 

You didn't say anything wrong, it was my fault for not making it clear enough.  What I meant was that Grappling Hook is the first tier in Battlemaster, and since I wanted the two passives on the left (i forgot to mention this), i had to take it.  I don't use it very often, but it would sure be nice if it was actually available when I DO want to use it.  And I must take that skill if I were to get one of the Horns in the tree.

 

 

I agree with the OP's request, as it's one I think everyone could benefit from.   I noticed the limitation the most on my mage, and I really don't feel like I was getting the most out of her with the 8 ability slot limit.  It would be nice for all players to get up to 10 slots.  

 

Yeah, I can see how Mages should be affected the most by these limitations.  My first PT was a mage, but I chose Knight Enchanter for the lore, before realizing how OP it was.  I ended up spamming Spirit Blade to the end.  But I can see how tricky it would be if I were to play a pure mage, especially if I wanted diversity in my spells.  Barrier is a must, esp for higher difficulties.  Dispel is exclusive to Mages and Templars, so it should be staple in any mages arsenal.  Mind Blast is useful if you get surrounded.  That's 3 slots already...  then you add some elemental offensive spells..  and we're not even counting your cool specialization skills yet.   Oh, and in my OP I completely forgot to mention Focus skills... because I haven't used them for a long time... no room for it!

[Jeffry]

OH MY FREAKING GOD! Get over with that PC master crap. Consoles had a radial wheel that we could use in Origins and II which contained all the skills, I know shocker isn't it. Don't drop your monocle on your way out.

 

Nobody said anything about PC master race crap. If I hate something, it is people who put words in my mouth I have not said, nor implied.

 

DAO was designed as a PC game, so they had to come up with a solution for consoles. And according to many it was clunky and slowed the game down, which is not the case in DAI anymore. Honestly, which do you find more comfortable to use, the abilities menu from DAO or the one in DAI?

 

The fact is we've been lied to by the devs before DAI came out. This game was not made "by PC players for PC players with the PC as the main platform" and the tac cam doesn't work just like in DAO as we were also promised.

 

If this game was created for PCs, how come, we don't even have tooltips when we mouse over the abilities in action bar? How come the game doesn't have simple functions that were present in DAO and DA2 like click to move in 3rd person mode? Why the tac cam can't be moved with the mouse? Not to mention the game doesn't fully support SLI / crossfire when the game can't even run on the highest possible settings with a single GPU (don't tell me it is Nvidia's/AMD's fault, it works in BF4).

 

The only 2 possible solutions are BW are incompetent and completely forgot what they said or they simply created the game for console players and lied to PC players. I did not at all mean that consoles screwed the game for PC players, I meant that BW screwed it.

 

EDIT: Oh, I almost forgot. There is also the fact that DLCs will have a timed exclusivity on Xbox One. It has no direct connection to the botched controls, but it just kinda shows, what BW's main platform is.

Modifié par Jeffry, 17 février 2015 - 09:20 .

[Hexoduen]

10? How about 40 as in Origins   ... Yeah that might be overkill in Inquisition seeing as we have fewer abilities.

 

Then 18. I'd never use my mouse to click 'Search', the hourglass, or the horse and so on anyways, I use the keyboard for those commands, so I'm thinking Icewind Dale II: You right click on a button you don't use ('Search') and then you get to choose if it should be an ability slot instead

[RMP _]

Don't blame the consoles. Blame the multi player*. They had to make sure everything mapped nice and neat for fast, non-pausing gameplay.

 

*Actually I just got the game and haven't tried the multiplayer, but it's a plausible theory, right?

 

Regardless, this is looking to be very annoying. I think I remember in DA:O they added more slots after the game was released. Anyone with a good memory remember that?

 

If this is how they want to do it, they should re-arrange the skill trees to let us spec into all the passives without wasting points on stuff we won't use because it won't fit in the 8 slots.

[Saphiron123]

I honestly don't know how it worked on consoles. I played it on PC, it looked like a console game, but the gameplay experience for me was PC-like and the UI was PC one too. There was an action bar from left to right of the screen. I don't know how many abilities could one fit there, since I was going for autoattack gatling gun build with my archer and only used 12-13 of them (according to my old screenshots), but I guess it was 30-35, since at the far right of the action bar I had 2 special potions. In the case in DA2 BW actually managed to make the gameplay enjoyable for both PC and consoles and that game was made in a year.

 

Even DAO was released on consoles, but I heard it was kinda difficult to play in on them with all those abilities. The was made for PCs and it showed.

They used an ability wheel. It worked, you had all the same skills as a PC player.

[Lee T]

DAO was designed as a PC game, so they had to come up with a solution for consoles. And according to many it was clunky and slowed the game down, which is not the case in DAI anymore. Honestly, which do you find more comfortable to use, the abilities menu from DAO or the one in DAI?

Playing on consoles, DAO/DA2 6 abilities + radial menu over DAI any day.

The fact is we've been lied to by the devs before DAI came out. This game was not made "by PC players for PC players with the PC as the main platform" and the tac cam doesn't work just like in DAO as we were also promised.

If this game was created for PCs, how come, we don't even have tooltips when we mouse over the abilities in action bar? How come the game doesn't have simple functions that were present in DAO and DA2 like click to move in 3rd person mode? Why the tac cam can't be moved with the mouse? Not to mention the game doesn't fully support SLI / crossfire when the game can't even run on the highest possible settings with a single GPU (don't tell me it is Nvidia's/AMD's fault, it works in BF4).

The only 2 possible solutions are BW are incompetent and completely forgot what they said or they simply created the game for console players and lied to PC players. I did not at all mean that consoles screwed the game for PC players, I meant that BW screwed it.

Considering that DAI UI is inadequate both on PC and Consoles and that Bioware is linked in my mind to clunky menus, awkward button selection and generally bad UI, I lay the blame at Bioware's feet. Wether it is incompetence, inadequate budget or time or simply this not being their priority, I do not know.

[AiCola]

So... the people who are convinced the 8 ability limit is all about consoles... You've never used a potion? 

 

You didn't notice the radial menu that could have accommodated an additional 10-20 abilities and worked just fine on consoles? The same way it worked for DA:O?

 

Okay, then. Carry on.

 

how are we supposed to know how the controls are on console? ;-)
The UI looks different on pc.

 

I have a question for OP:
Did you realize that you can remove the skills you don't want to use from the bar and replace them with the ones you need?

Sure you can't use all your skills, which CAN be annoying, but you don't really need more than 8.

Also you don't really have enough mana/stamina to use them anyways.

I think it's ok, but unnecessary to only have 8 slots.

[Akrabra]

Yeah i could really wish the ability bar was bigger, minimum 12 to be honest. Then again i have no need for 40 like in Origins and alot of spells in Origins fell out of flavor to fast. The gameplay has changed alot and the need for bar is lessened, but i do miss sustained modes. 

[Diegonius]

I think that 10 slots would be ideal. I didn't like it when I had to say goodbye to useful skills, just because others were better.

 

I guess one of the reasons they just gave us 8 slots is because they wanted to make it easier to use skills, in order to allow players to play without pausing. Something I consider a big mistake, since RPG's heavily rely on pausing to think, change and implement your strategy.

[theflyingzamboni]

There are actually two reasons the whole 8 slots thing is bad. The first part everyone always mentions is that a lot of the time, I really find myself wishing I could use different abilities without having to magically know ahead of time what I'm about to fight. Or maybe just to shake things up a little. But the second and much sadder part is, no matter the situation, I never actually NEED any more than 8 abilities per character throughout the game. Like so many games, I can get through the game using very few optimal abilities. Which suggests to me that they need to improve the ability design. All abilities should be useful at SOME point. I shouldn't be able to cycle through the same few for every encounter.

[AiCola]

Something that bothered me way more was the lack of a 2nd set of weapons.

especially since many mage skills rely on the type of your staff it would have been a sweet freature to be able to switch between 2 staffs.

[Kaibe]

In DA2 even on console you still had access to all of your skills. Why'd the feel the need to change that?

[AlexMBrennan]

In DA2 even on console you still had access to all of your skills. Why'd the feel the need to change that?

Because Diablo 3 sold a loads of copies and people have spent millions of hours playing it* and guess what, D3 limited the player to 5 abilities (to the point where you lose the ability to do a basic attack with your weapons because they have become just stat sticks that determine the damage of your laser beams)

 

Very little of DAI is really unique (climbing up tall spires to collect collectibles is familar from Ass Creed, open world invites comparisons to Skyrim, boring fetch quests will remind you of successful MMOs, MP where you have to buy Spectre Gear packs to unlock classes are taken from ME3 MP, etc)

 

* Which is impressive because the game really doesn't have all that much content - 10h at most; everything beyond that is grinding on higher difficulty for better loot to move on to the next area to grind even better loot to grind even harder monsters

[AiCola]

Because Diablo 3 sold a loads of copies and people have spent millions of hours playing it* and guess what, D3 limited the player to 5 abilities (to the point where you lose the ability to do a basic attack with your weapons because they have become just stat sticks that determine the damage of your laser beams)

 

Very little of DAI is really unique (climbing up tall spires to collect collectibles is familar from Ass Creed, open world invites comparisons to Skyrim, boring fetch quests will remind you of successful MMOs, MP where you have to buy Spectre Gear packs to unlock classes are taken from ME3 MP, etc)

 

* Which is impressive because the game really doesn't have all that much content - 10h at most; everything beyond that is grinding on higher difficulty for better loot to move on to the next area to grind even better loot to grind even harder monsters

i disagree with 1 thing - the monsters in the next area don't get harder, they're the same ones as before 8[

[mahony427]

This is perhaps for me the biggest disappointment. It is so restricting to have only 8 skills. Not to mention, that 2 skills are focus based skills, which leaves for me only 6 real skill slots and you can only change them outside of combat. So I do hope they will at least mitigate this gameplay restriction, which really takes back the enjoyment I have from the game.

[Ophir147]

The 8 button limit wasnt put in place for console, as other have said, the radial menu worked ok enough to integrate into DA:I.

 

 

It is much more likely that the limitation was put in place to make the transition between single-player to multiplayer easier, since multiplayer is unable to accommodate traditional DA pause and play combat.

[coldflame]

In DA2 even on console you still had access to all of your skills. Why'd the feel the need to change that?

 

bioware has a habit of trying to reinvent the wheel.

[DanteYoda]

Agree OP i also hated this direction in ESO and Guildwars..was 10 and it was still incredibly low.

 

bioware has a habit of trying to reinvent the wheel.

Yeah

[Pukey Paul]

There are 8 abilities so it would be as comfortable as possible for console players to play. Nevermind that PC can have an action bar of 20 or more abilities and we can easily click on them with the mouse...

As a console player we were always going to be limited with a controller but they got round this by bring up a skill wheel to access your unmapped abilities. Can't see why they dropped that as it screwed over us but it screwed over you PC players more in IMO.

[Pukey Paul]

DAO was designed as a PC game, they had to come up with a solution for consoles. And according to many it was clunky and slowed the game down, which is not the case in DAI anymore. Honestly, which do you find more comfortable to use, the abilities menu from DAO or the one in DAI?

I don't know anyone that ever complained about the console controls slowing the game play down, the fact the PC and console communities are asking for it to be put back makes your statement flawed. And DAO radial wheel for the win!