I would argue that DAI would be better still if it went even more in BG's direction and didn't tell us whether quests were plot relevant.@Majestic jazz
DAI as more in common with BG1. BG1 had the same type of story layout. Not everything fed into the main quest.
I would argue that DAI would be better still if it went even more in BG's direction and didn't tell us whether quests were plot relevant.
Was the disappearance of Brage or Bassilus related in any way to the iron shortage or Sarevok? No. But there was no way to know that without either doing the quests or significantly advancing the story by other means.
You mean the main quests? They're rather big in scope so they'll always stand out.
More significant side quests give you agents and judgement, often without knowing beforehand. Does that count?
It does have the best schematics in the game.
The Hissing Wastes is actually the one zone I wouldn't skip. This is where you can fill out a lot of equipment holes on your group with easy to get item. +crit damage ring, +crit chance ring, +attack ring, lots of great armor / weapon schematics from the merchant, etc.
I've played the game through many times now, I set foot in that Oasis zone exactly once on my first playthrough. I 100% skip it and a few others now, they just aren't necessary, I try to race my way to the Hissing Wastes.
That's like asking the tide to stop. Maybe if he posts it in every single thread he can, he will convince himself.
Oh well.
That's like asking the tide to stop. Maybe if he posts it in every single thread he can, he will convince himself.
Not every quest ties to main plot = Short main plot, stupid MMO filler quests = Bad!
Quests tied to main plot = Linear alley run =Bad!
Can you quit saying this?
DAI is no shorter than DAO in terms of main plot relevant quests. They're just spaced apart more depending on how many side quests you do... like DAO.
Maybe it is just a perception thing. DAO had more plot missions than DAI.
DAO had:
Origins story
OstagarCircle Tower
Orzammar + Deep Roads
Dalish v. Wolves
The Fade
Temple of Sacred Ashes
The Alienage
The Landsmeet
Denerim Battle
Er...why are you separating the Circle Tower from The Fade? They're the same quest...
Same thing applies for Alienage + Landsmeet. They're part of the same arc.
You're also technically missing Lothering as well as Redcliffe so I'll add that.
Also there are 6 different origins so DAO has that going for it as well.
I can hardly blame him for feeling that way. The Fade certainly feels like it adds an extra 10-40 hours to the overall game.
I'm imagining a design wherein the quests that advance the plot are not distinguishable from side-quests. To make that work, some side-quests would need to be very big quests that required lots of power to unlock, while some mandatory quests would need to be smaller and less expensive in terms of power.You mean the main quests? They're rather big in scope so they'll always stand out.
More significant side quests give you agents and judgement, often without knowing beforehand. Does that count?
I'm imagining a design wherein the quests that advance the plot are not distinguishable from side-quests. To make that work, some side-quests would need to be very big quests that required lots of power to unlock, while some mandatory quests would need to be smaller and less expensive in terms of power.
Alternatively, they could have put more of the main quests (ideally most of them) within the large explorable areas, rather than hidden in their own areas. That would make the quests that are there look more like main quests. I'm thinking of things like gaining the favour of the elves in the Exalted Plains - there's no reason why that couldn't look as much like a main quest as the Orlesian civil war stuff does. They're both superficially tangential to the whole Breach/Elder One anyway, so why put a big glowy icon over one of them on the War Table?
Very much this.
I liked all of the smaller areas for the story advancement. The Arbor Wilds, in particular was stunning, but some things could simply have been made to feel more connected by being in the main exploration areas. For example, why did recruiting Sera and Vivienne send us to different locations (one of which was only visible duration cinematic conversation anyway) when they were both in Orlais. Surely it would have given the Val Royeaux setting more relevance if they'd been accessible directly from that map.
Also agree about the size of some side quests and power required. There is an almost comical over abundance of power in the game, anyway. Make more use of it - and definitely dispose of the green glow over story progression quests.
Before I launched the assault on Adamant (which requires 20 Power), I had 281 Power.Very much this.
I liked all of the smaller areas for the story advancement. The Arbor Wilds, in particular was stunning, but some things could simply have been made to feel more connected by being in the main exploration areas. For example, why did recruiting Sera and Vivienne send us to different locations (one of which was only visible duration cinematic conversation anyway) when they were both in Orlais. Surely it would have given the Val Royeaux setting more relevance if they'd been accessible directly from that map.
Also agree about the size of some side quests and power required. There is an almost comical over abundance of power in the game, anyway. Make more use of it - and definitely dispose of the green glow over story progression quests.
Before I launched the assault on Adamant (which requires 20 Power), I had 281 Power.
My most recently finished playthrough (level 22) I had just a shade over 200 (I think 201-202) before finishing up. 281 is most impressive dedication!
I really think the mechanic has a sound idea/theory behind it but there is too little to spend it on and it is really easy to gain. Perhaps a better system would have been 1 Power for finishing a quest line. i.e. 1 Power for "Holding the Hinterlands", not 1 per camp. 1 Power for "Rifts in the Outskirts", not 1 per Fade Rift.
I do understand they would likely have wanted to avoid making it difficult for people who simply wanted to power through and do everything as quickly as possible, but by the time you reach Skyhold, Power gains are inherently worthless.
I'd rather have influence and personal XP. Maybe a system by which Power could be spent on Influence could be implemented?
Yes, I was level 23 before doing Wicked Eyes.My most recently finished playthrough (level 22) I had just a shade over 200 (I think 201-202) before finishing up. 281 is most impressive dedication!
I'm imagining a design wherein the quests that advance the plot are not distinguishable from side-quests. To make that work, some side-quests would need to be very big quests that required lots of power to unlock, while some mandatory quests would need to be smaller and less expensive in terms of power.
This sounds like fun.
Isn't that how DA2 worked though? At least similarly.
Maybe it is just a perception thing. DAO had more plot missions than DAI.
DAO had:
Origins story
Ostagar
Circle Tower
Orzammar + Deep Roads
Dalish v. Wolves
The Fade
Temple of Sacred Ashes
The Alienage
The Landsmeet
Denerim Battle
The problem with this type of list is that it overstates the "plot" part of DAO. Look at it this way, the Brecillian and Deep Roads are basically big areas filled with trash quests - very much like the big open area areas in DAI. The difference is in DAI they have sheared out the Branka part and the Lady of the Forest parts into separate maps. You could very much argue that the only "plot" part of the whole Roads quest is the actual map with Branka on it the rest is just a big slog to get there. Heck the whole dance in Orzammar is really just another form of "influence gathering" so that Bhelen or Harrowmont will work with you - you could honestly express that outcome in exactly the same way they would have in DAI as you need X power to unlock the Bhelen or Harrowmont support missions.
Now I am not arguing that the Woods and Roads don't feel more connected to those plot quests because of the fact that you have to go through X parts to get to the plot parts. What DAI (unwisely IMHO) does is exposes how little of "plot" missions are really plot and aren't just generic trash mob murderation.
It did. Ignoring the categories in the Journal, that's exactly how DA2 worked. DA2 arguably had BioWare's best plot structure. The game had other issues, obviously, but there was a kernel of excellent game design in the relationships beteeen the quests and the plot.This sounds like fun.
Isn't that how DA2 worked though? At least similarly.
I do like Sylvius' idea of making side quests indistinguishable from main quests. It would be nice if we got a little less hand-holding for the next Dragon Age game.
Before I launched the assault on Adamant (which requires 20 Power), I had 281 Power.
At this point I doubt I'll do much in the emerald graves... Maybe just cullen's quest, then might unlock the hissing wastes for the merchants. It does feel like that's too many irrelevant areas.
As a result, DAI felt more like a MMO with a bunch of not only filler quest but filler locations.
I guess you're the type that calls the entire visit to a country boring because you took the scenic route to every tourist destination?
StrawmanI guess you're the type that calls the entire visit to a country boring because you took the scenic route to every tourist destination?
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