You must not know tumblr.
Suffice to say the gay bff trope isn't vastly overused but it's quite annoying to see it pop up in various fanfictions and even in some fanart (I personly loathe it)
I interchange Dorian and Solas (especially early on as Solas seems a lot better but with levelling, Dorian is great.)
Actually you get anon-hate in tumblr if you refer him as gay friend or matchmaker in Inquisitors and Cullen's relationship etc.
I can understand this to a point..it just sucks when you're not represented well.. but that aside, if you just take story quality on it's own merits, why feel emotionally left out?
I could still appreciate a lot of gay character stories.. just depends on the quality. Some people like to make fun of Brokeback Mountain, but I actually teared up at the end. I also wanted Celene and Briala back together here. Disfunctional as it is, I think their feelings/relationship was real.. and they could do good with each other.
(...)
Lets be happy there isn't even more criteria for romance such as quest choices, class and that character usage in the party, I remember in Baldur's Gate 2 to romance Jaheira she had to be in your party all the time unless for quest reasons.(...)
Wasn't that the case for other romances too? Either way, that stemmed from different approach to party, in DA your party is everyone you ever recruited you just don't use everyone all the time. In Dragon Age if someone was not in the party, that meant you were actually kicking him out of the company.
In fact it's implied (in most cases, there is at least one exception) that everyone actually does travel with you in DA:I - they often comment on things as if they were there regardless of you taking them with you as party members at the time or not.
Oh that's interesting I never caught that in the game. I've noticed that companions talk about fade in a different manner if they are there or not in the game and about the Winter Palace differently if they were invited or not but maybe that is only applicable to the major quests only and not exploring the world where in-game lore they are with you just doing different tasks in the area.
*I did notice that Iron Bull talks about the Dragon even if he is not there.
You must not know tumblr.
Suffice to say the gay bff trope isn't vastly overused but it's quite annoying to see it pop up in various fanfictions and even in some fanart (I personly loathe it)
I interchange Dorian and Solas (especially early on as Solas seems a lot better but with levelling, Dorian is great.)
There are tons of tropes in life if that's what you want to call them. I don't feel the need to live my life in a zone of social outrage because they make the women of the game love shoes or because people are poor fiction writers. I ignore what I feel like, accept that people are human, and am pretty happy most of the time because of it.
I have gay friends I watch hockey with and gay friends I go shopping with that meet what people would consider a "trope". One of my gay friends in a drag queen and very "queer" as he puts is and he said he feels more criticism and judgment from other gays because they think he's being a stereotype while he says he's living his life.
I just nod and wave because I think any kind of judgment, even those we feel in our heads is "pro", is really outside my pay grade. I am a fundamentally flawed person with lots of things wrong with me so I aint got time to point out what other people do that is politically incorrect and/or wrong. I'd be a bigger hypocrite than I already am if I sat around and pointed fingers when I have so much work to do on myself.
So basically what I'm saying is that if someone wants to have a fictional gay bff what's it to anyone and how is it different than erotica or romance novel which also create false expectations in people? Most women I know cannot live up to the expectations placed on us in literature, movies, etc.nor are we we wicked as a lot of songs make us out to be.
Everyone has a fictional worldview. If we all lived in the present and embraced reality the world would look very different.
I made a male character, so I could romance him. Problem solved. 
Actually you get anon-hate in tumblr if you refer him as gay friend or matchmaker in Inquisitors and Cullen's relationship etc
Good for Tumblr. I suppose if you throw enough crap at a wall eventually there will be something worth sticking.
I don't feel cheated. I rolled a male and am romancing Dorian in my current playthough.
I honestly don't know why anyone would refer to Dorian as their gay bff. He's a good friend to the inquisitor (if the Inquisitor cultivates that friendship) - that happens to be gay. If anyone is defining the friendship just focusing on him being gay - they are missing a lot of substance to that friendship, and a lot of substance to Dorian.
Good for Tumblr. I suppose if you throw enough crap at a wall eventually there will be something worth sticking.
I wouldn't see it's as positive thing, but each for themselves I guess.
I wouldn't see it's as positive thing, but each for themselves I guess.
If you're proliferating stereotypes, particularly stereotypes that are not at all aligned with the character, that tangibly affect the lives of real people, then yes, you deserve to have your ass chewed about it. I've been manipulatively used more than once by women who I thought were my friends but who really just wanted a pet gay.
If you're proliferating stereotypes, particularly stereotypes that are not at all aligned with the character, that tangibly affect the lives of real people, then yes, you deserve to have your ass chewed about it. I've been manipulatively used more than once by women who I thought were my friends but who really just wanted a pet gay.
Hmh, if it goes as far as judging every fanart where Dorian is friend of female Inquisitior or where he's helping Cullen with his relationship with female Inquisitor, I'd say it's not about stereotypes anymore, it's just getting mad for sake of getting mad. Stereotypes can suck, I get that, but being so afraid of them that you can't even think Dorian doing things that friends do, well I think it's just bit much.
I honestly don't know why anyone would refer to Dorian as their gay bff. He's a good friend to the inquisitor (if the Inquisitor cultivates that friendship) - that happens to be gay. If anyone is defining the friendship just focusing on him being gay - they are missing a lot of substance to that friendship, and a lot of substance to Dorian.
Because that was their word choice at the time? I don't refer to Dorian as anything but my homeboy but I'm not going to treat someone like a social pariah because they "aren't there yet".
We're all in a different spot along the journey. Some people started earlier than others so they are farther along.
Aren't intentions important anymore or are we stuck on language?
If you're proliferating stereotypes, particularly stereotypes that are not at all aligned with the character, that tangibly affect the lives of real people, then yes, you deserve to have your ass chewed about it. I've been manipulatively used more than once by women who I thought were my friends but who really just wanted a pet gay.
What people do in a game or write in their own fanfiction doesn't effect you. I could just as easily be offended as a female by drag queens (I'm not) or gays that say the B-word or gays that say "gurrrrl" and mimic black chicks, or gays that over use the C-word and I could talk about them on forums when they aren't around, but instead I just go "people...." and shrug because no one's perfect.
You had women that manipulated you because they wanted a "pet gay". I have been used by gays who wanted to pretend to their parents they had a girlfriend or had gay male friends of mine use me to hit on male friends of mine in special forces, I was told to ask all sorts of stuff because they were too afraid. My guy SF friend thinks gays are manipulative because they pretend to be your friend only to get you in a place where they can hit on you.
Using a bad experience here or there and turn it into a meme is just...I can't. Real problems aren't people using me to get to my hot friends. Real problems aren't women wanting you to be a "pet gay". Real problems are like my friend Lori whose kid has Leukemia, or finding out you have cancer.
These are first world problems that just reduce our overall enjoyment of life, in my opinion before anyone throws salami at me.
No one, least of all me, is perfect so why do we all get so offended at everything?
It makes life so much less enjoyable.
What people do in a game or write in their own fanfiction doesn't effect you. I could just as easily be offended as a female by drag queens (I'm not) or gays that say the B-word or gays that say "gurrrrl" and mimic black chicks, or gays that over use the C-word and I could talk about them on forums when they aren't around, but instead I just go "people...." and shrug because no one's perfect.
You had women that manipulated you because they wanted a "pet gay". I have been used by gays who wanted to pretend to their parents they had a girlfriend or had gay male friends of mine use me to hit on male friends of mine in special forces, I was told to ask all sorts of stuff because they were too afraid. My guy SF friend thinks gays are manipulative because they pretend to be your friend only to get you in a place where they can hit on you.
Using a bad experience here or there and turn it into a meme is just...I can't. Real problems aren't people using me to get to my hot friends. Real problems aren't women wanting you to be a "pet gay". Real problems are like my friend Lori whose kid has Leukemia, or finding out you have cancer.
These are first world problems that just reduce our overall enjoyment of life, in my opinion before anyone throws salami at me.
No one, least of all me, is perfect so why do we all get so offended at everything?
It makes life so much less enjoyable.
I see you listing a bunch of crappy things that people do which should all not be tolerated. Perhaps if I said all women are awful because some women go on about gay bffs, then maybe you would have a point. But I didn't. I specifically think women who go on about gay bffs are awful. It's bigoted and dehumanizing to only be valued by someone because of the stereotypical roles they expect you to fill.
And your leukemia strawman is barely worth replying to, but fine, here it is. I could say that one individual's leukemia is inconsequential compared to entire populations in different parts of the world that don't have access to clean water... but I wouldn't. Because that's a terrible thing to say. Problems are problems no matter how big or small they are and caring about one issue doesn't exclude you from caring about another.
I see you listing a bunch of crappy things that people do which should all not be tolerated. Perhaps if I said all women are awful because some women go on about gay bffs, then maybe you would have a point. But I didn't. I specifically think women who go on about gay bffs are awful. It's bigoted and dehumanizing to only be valued by someone because of the stereotypical roles they expect you to fill.
And your leukemia strawman is barely worth replying to, but fine, here it is. I could say that one individual's leukemia is inconsequential compared to entire populations in different parts of the world that don't have access to clean water... but I wouldn't. Because that's a terrible thing to say. Problems are problems no matter how big or small they are and caring about one issue doesn't exclude you from caring about another.
Not be tolerated sounds very authoritarian and judgmental. I'm sorry if I prefer to look at someone's intentions over the language they use. I like to see whole people instead of break them down into a laundry list of their sins.
Do people say and do rude things? Sure. That's really just life. It's not a straw man to rank what things are important in life, what is seriously consequential, and to manage our expectations of other people and of life. That's how we live life, as opposed to just existing.
We pick and choose battles so that we can thrive and be happy.
Hearing my gay male friend call me the B-word affectionately doesn't break my heart. Having a sick kid would. Having someone say "she's my best girlfriend" (which my gay male friend does and is the equivalent of some chick on Tumblr's gay bfff) doesn't make me feel like he's saying that I'm not a good as a regular friend. He's identifying that I'm female over male...so? Where's his heart at? Does he love me? Yes, he does. We love each other so I can overlook I'm the token female of that group. No one's dying.
Now, you are an individual free to be offended by whatever you choose to be offended by, but recognize that this is also a choice.
As Thich Nag Hanh said, " ...we can't govern other people, only ourselves. Choose happiness."
I choose to be happy,.
I honestly don't know why anyone would refer to Dorian as their gay bff. He's a good friend to the inquisitor (if the Inquisitor cultivates that friendship) - that happens to be gay. If anyone is defining the friendship just focusing on him being gay - they are missing a lot of substance to that friendship, and a lot of substance to Dorian.
I think the truly heart-melting friend moment is post-Adamant where he asks if you're alright after the horrible fade experience. There are extra lines for a romance, but the base concern is there regardless of whether you romance him. Almost everyone else kind of freaks out over how weird it all is, but Dorian wants to know how YOU feel. It's really quite wonderful.
My first play was as a straight fem that romanced Cullen (this was planned in advance), so I didn't crush on Dorian and get turned down. I also didn't have a flirty relationship, but a more serious one. I don't know... perhaps this allows me to have a different view of him?
A lot of his depth is revealed in the party banter, most of which has nothing to do with his sexuality. I think this is true for many of the followers. Perhaps this makes the banter issues that so many suffered from even more problematic because people then missed out on good characterization.
Wasn't that the case for other romances too? Either way, that stemmed from different approach to party, in DA your party is everyone you ever recruited you just don't use everyone all the time. In Dragon Age if someone was not in the party, that meant you were actually kicking him out of the company.
In fact it's implied (in most cases, there is at least one exception) that everyone actually does travel with you in DA:I - they often comment on things as if they were there regardless of you taking them with you as party members at the time or not.
Really? I got the impression that it was the first game that took notice if you didn't take them. 
Iron Bull on Champions of the Just, "Um, no offense, but I'm glad you didn't take me along. Demons, boss. Ugh."
I think Blackwall makes similar comments. The mages who didn't go into the Fade physically are jealous of the ones that did. When Cassandra is writing down accounts, she either references questioning all the party members that did, or wonders if she can ever give what she saw justice.
About the gay BFF thing. I don't think people realize how much straight women allies can sometimes make gay people uncomfortable and unsafe. There is a huge difference between being legitimate friends, even best friends. That stuff is awesome. It is often the disrespect to people's privacy and glamorizing their life that is dehumanizing. Acting like gay people Must be a certain way. Having them always there to lay down their own interests for the women in their lives with little in return. This stuff is romanticized to a ridiculous point.
But the worst is gay bars. Not only do many Straight women (and also increasingly straight men) make many celebrations at gay bars, including classiest of them all, bachelorete parties. But it gets to the point that Bars have closed down because straight women tend to harrass gay men, and on more than one occaison attacked gay women who have flirted with them. When asked to stop they cried discrimination and the bar closed down due to takeovers.
It is generally accepted where I am that gay bars are not safe for gay people emotionally or physically because of all the straight allies who push us out of our own space. Often anything put up for gay people comes with a lot of straight people, often straight women, who take pictures without permission, molest, and even bully the participants. A friend who is close and also gay is a wonderful thing. But it is a Social Phenomena that the Gay Best Friend Idea itself is hurting gay men to where they are openly fetishized and hurt, while lesbians have been bullied out of these areas by straight women.
By all means have a best friend who is gay that is a wonderful thing, but don't ignore the ramifications the Gay Best Friend has had on LGBT culture.
About the gay BFF thing. I don't think people realize how much straight women allies can sometimes make gay people uncomfortable and unsafe. There is a huge difference between being legitimate friends, even best friends. That stuff is awesome. It is often the disrespect to people's privacy and glamorizing their life that is dehumanizing. Acting like gay people Must be a certain way. Having them always there to lay down their own interests for the women in their lives with little in return. This stuff is romanticized to a ridiculous point.
But the worst is gay bars. Not only do many Straight women (and also increasingly straight men) make many celebrations at gay bars, including classiest of them all, bachelorete parties. But it gets to the point that Bars have closed down because straight women tend to harrass gay men, and on more than one occaison attacked gay women who have flirted with them. When asked to stop they cried discrimination and the bar closed down due to takeovers.
It is generally accepted where I am that gay bars are not safe for gay people emotionally or physically because of all the straight allies who push us out of our own space. Often anything put up for gay people comes with a lot of straight people, often straight women, who take pictures without permission, molest, and even bully the participants. A friend who is close and also gay is a wonderful thing. But it is a Social Phenomena that the Gay Best Friend Idea itself is hurting gay men to where they are openly fetishized and hurt, while lesbians have been bullied out of these areas by straight women.
By all means have a best friend who is gay that is a wonderful thing, but don't ignore the ramifications the Gay Best Friend has had on LGBT culture.
I get that it's sensitive matter and stereotypes often have harmful consequences that real life people suffer from, however in other hand sensitiveness sometimes go overboard, especially in the tumblr, where you can get lynched for using wrong word or being thoughtless. Most of time, I don't think these fanart doers think about it a lot, they just want to draw Dorian as friend of their female Inquisitors. Since Dorian has some stereotypical traits meaning caring of his appearance, being dashing and then there is real game aspect of him teasing Cullen over his crush to female Inquisitor (in chess scene) people take those to friendship and this image of gay friend who is dashing, fashionable and matchmaker is born and then you have people getting mad, accusing people and sending them anon-hate.
So, I don't think Dorian is being portrayed wrongly cause most of character traits he has can be found in game as well, and it's not like he can't be friend of female Inquisitor, but in other hand does this fanart, fanfics and headcanons enforce negative stereotypes or irk people who have suffered from them, I guess it does. Is it that big deal though, that people should stop doing it and get harassed if they do it, idk about that. I guess it's hard to balance between creating art and stories you like and not stepping on anyone's toes : /
I get that it's sensitive matter and stereotypes often have harmful consequences that real life people suffer from, however in other hand sensitiveness sometimes go overboard, especially in the tumblr, where you can get lynched for using wrong word or being thoughtless. Most of time, I don't think these fanart doers think about it a lot, they just want to draw Dorian as friend of their female Inquisitors. Since Dorian has some stereotypical traits meaning caring of his appearance, being dashing and then there is real game aspect of him teasing Cullen over his crush to female Inquisitor (in chess scene) people take those to friendship and this image of gay friend who is dashing, fashionable and matchmaker is born and then you have people getting mad, accusing people and sending them anon-hate.
So, I don't think Dorian is being portrayed wrongly cause most of character traits he has can be found in game as well, and it's not like he can't be friend of female Inquisitor, but in other hand does this fanart, fanfics and headcanons enforce negative stereotypes or irk people who have suffered from them, I guess it does. Is it that big deal though, that people should stop doing it and get harassed if they do it, idk about that. I guess it's hard to balance between creating art and stories you like and not stepping on anyone's toes : /
Oh I totally get that, and I am with you in the fact that geting hate for it doesn't explain it, nor helps anybody. But often there is a difference between having some aspects of something and being defined by it. But then fanfiction in general often uses Slash as more of a female use of men in a really weird way, not all by any means, but yeah fanfiction often uses gay men in weird ways, and the Slash genre is mostly straight women sexualizing or emotionally fetishing gay men.
The fact is, it has less to do with young people grabbing onto these concepts as media perpetuating them. Nearly everyone in the game comments on your relationship to someone else, although Dorian is the only one in a Cut scene. Looks is less to do with it. Not about fitting to stereotypes as it is making a character completely about being gay. Nothing is wrong with being a stereotype, in fact I used to rail because we view some things as such a bad stereotype, we refuse to acknowledge real people are like that. But I mean, we are still people. Seeing someone as just their sexuality is messed up, which the game does not do to Dorian, but constant media says it should. Gay is still the punchline in movies, and in movies about women, the gay character is rarely a lesbian and always a gay man who is shown in such a way as his goals are completely annihilated by the female protagonist.
The truth is, the trope is messed up, most of all because straight women have a hard time realizing when they are emotionally fetishizing gay men, and often have a hard time recognizing lesbians are part of the LGBT. It has less to do with sensitivity, as an actual safety issue and a problem media is making worse. Many people have little issue recognizing that Straight men fetishizing lesbians to suit male ideals and dehumanization is wrong, I just hope we can teach the younger generations the same about women doing the same to gay men.
If someone wants to say that Dorian is their best friend, than they can say it. They do not have to emphasize that he is gay. I do not write things like "OMG Solas is my best straight friend!"
If you're a girl, though, it makes more sense. The norm is being straight, after all, and a woman declaring something as strong as "he is my best friend" may have implications of either relationship being something else/more than friendship, or worse - it might imply her taking advantage of a guy that is infatuated with her, despite her being unwilling to proceed beyond friendship. Stating outright that the guy is gay lets her clear any possible misunderstanding of relationship.
There are, of course, some unfortunate implications in all of this (mainly implications of "no friendship between straight guy and straight girl, at the very least the guy always would want something more") but those implications aren't really homophobic and I wouldn't really blame the girl for them if she states that her best friend is gay. For her it's pretty much a statement "he is my best friend and yes, we are only friend" but presented in indisputable form, while simply insisting that they're just friends could easily be dismissed as "they just say that" or "they're just afraid to admit it". No they're not, he's gay, they're incompatible, eot.
I find it quite bizzare that there are even people who would read more to that "guy best friend" thing, really...
The truth is, the trope is messed up, most of all because straight women have a hard time realizing when they are emotionally fetishizing gay men, and often have a hard time recognizing lesbians are part of the LGBT. It has less to do with sensitivity, as an actual safety issue and a problem media is making worse. Many people have little issue recognizing that Straight men fetishizing lesbians to suit male ideals and dehumanization is wrong, I just hope we can teach the younger generations the same about women doing the same to gay men.
Yeah, and it is even more annoying that the "gay best friend" trope is perpetuate by straight allies who should have known better. 
The truth is, the trope is messed up, most of all because straight women have a hard time realizing when they are emotionally fetishizing gay men, and often have a hard time recognizing lesbians are part of the LGBT. It has less to do with sensitivity, as an actual safety issue and a problem media is making worse. Many people have little issue recognizing that Straight men fetishizing lesbians to suit male ideals and dehumanization is wrong, I just hope we can teach the younger generations the same about women doing the same to gay men.
This is really, really judgmental and harsh on straight women. Not "some straight women"...just "straight women". Even comparing that to the male lesbian fantasy ignores the difference--men like to see women make out because they want to be in the middle of it. Women who have a "Will and Grace" lovefest do so BECAUSE of shows like Will and Grace, SATC, Mean Girls, and other Hollywood productions written by your fellow liberals with a hand in by gay writers.
I know not ONE real life woman who talks about her gay BFF. When I read this stuff online I have to step away because I think about all the times in high school and college when I ended up with gay male friends because I defended them, sometimes physically, to straight guys who picked on them and I get really, really angry that I now have to read about what "women" do.. I didn't go fishing for gay male friends. I prefer the company of women, lesbian women, bi women, straight women because men say stupid things all the time like, "women do _______________" whether that _____________ is "want to talk about feelings" or "emotionally fetishizing them".
I'll also say that while I know not ONE real life woman who talks about her gay bff like a handbag or pet, I do know gay men that nonstop talk crap about lesbians "What does a lesbian bring on a first date? A Uhaul" or "There's a Home Depot worker" **wink** and I also remember the time my gay MALE friends had an intervention on me after I hung out with "too many lesbians" because they said I stopped caring about my appearance and I was an embarrassment to take places.
So as I end my rant, just like I was able to pull up anecdotal evidence and generalizations to swing around on this forum just to have something negative to say, I think that people ought to remember that it is these same women who, without their votes the GLBT movement would still be at ground zero since it wasn't heterosexual males in the beginning marching, canvassing, and getting the phone tree going, I will instead say that even when they do things like have appearance interventions, make me ask my hot straight guy friend if he was "curious", throw around the C-word, and do other things that annoy me...I don't care. My friends are my friends. They aren't gay friends, they're just friends.
At the end of the day I have a laundry list of flaws and problems that for me to point out what others do that annoy me, especially when those things are done with love and affection, I'd be a real jerk.
The intervention was because they saw me changing and worried. Asking me to call ___________ for him was also him sharing something vulnerable about himself with me because he knew he could trust me. Using the C-word in a weird way is a strange show that they are trying to be one of "us", solidarity with women in the way they know how. I could make the argument that use of the Cword is likewise dangerous and that Dlisted is a dangerous website, but I won't because he's funny and doesn't mean anything bad. He just wants to make people laugh and smile.
So I have learned as an adult to not sweat the small stuff.
/rant
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