78 réponses à ce sujet

[Regan_Cousland]

I'm interested to know which of these two things BioWare fans value most highly. 

Do BioWare fans really want Dragon Age to become more like Skyrim? 

If you have a moment to spare, please answer this question as honestly and concisely as possible:

Would you get rid of three of Dragon Age: Inquisition's large, beautiful, but storyless open-world environments in exchange for thirty additional interesting, cinematic, plot-related quests in the environments that remain?

(Note: You can eliminate any three open-world environments that you choose, and the thirty story quests you get in return are of varying size and importance, but a handful of them contribute greatly to the game's central narrative.)

Edit: Yes, as many below have pointed out, having both is the ideal solution, and I wholeheartedly agree. I'm simply trying to determine which element BioWare fans value the most if push comes to shove. Think of it as a big, BioWare-style decision, like choosing Templars or Mages. lol

[ThreeF]

You can have your cake and eat it too. There are rpg games with solid plot that are not entirely linear, however they are not the sandbox type Skyrim is. Plus I'm not all that convinced that the story suffers solely because of the maps, there is much more that just doesn't work quite as it could.

 

I wouldn't eliminate any of the areas, I would however employ different exploration mechanics. The concept behind DAI is good it just needs more tuning.

[Regan_Cousland]

Thanks for your opinion, ThreeF. You make good points.

But I'm not necessarily implying that the large number of open environments in Inquisition had a negative effect on the story.

I'm simply trying to get BioWare fans to place a higher value on one than the other by posing a tough, "a or b", question.

I'd like to know on which side of the fence people truly sit when pushed.

[BansheeOwnage]

If it truly worked that way, I would choose story without a second thought. Especially considering there are 3 desert areas, and several wooded areas. I think Inquisition could really use more story, and hopefully DLC will help a lot there.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

[Regan_Cousland]

 

Luckily for you, the fence I built is quite comfortable. It's narrow, though. I hope you're not a guy. If you are I suggest sitting side-saddle.

[wiredrawn]

Yeah both is good, but in my opinion, I would prefer not just more story, but more unique story. Like the introduction to flemmeth in origins, the whole werewolf dilemma, finding out about the golems etc .. like we're not just part of some mysterious old world fantasy but we are decided their outcomes more or less. Finding out about some random elf who lost a wife or some stranded human with an abusive father or some other such nonsense isn't why I play fantasy games.

[Regan_Cousland]

If I had to pick one or the other, I would go with fewer zones that are populated with more interesting and varied quests and npcs.

 

One way to address this is by adding a story arch, separate from the main plot, to each area. The Hinterlands, for instance, had the Mage and Templar war. It was tangentially related to the conflict with Corypheus, and helped give meaning to that space.

 

Great idea. I, too, would have been happy if each zone had contained at least one good, reasonably long, cinematic story quest that capitalized upon the uniqueness of the location.

[phaonica]

If I had to pick, I'd get rid of the big empty zones for fewer, more relevant and interesting zones.

But the other posters are right, you can have both.

The main narrative should lead you *through* those zones while enticing and inviting you to explore while not breaking the illusion of urgency.

[theflyingzamboni]

I would make most of the zones smaller. Too much walking from place to place is the antithesis of a good character-driven story, I think. It takes too much time away from all the drive and motivation behind playing the game. I do like exploration, but if you're going to have that much exploration and wandering about, it needs to serve the gameplay and narrative. For instance, in Shadow of the Colossus you spend a lot of your time wandering around a depopulated wasteland, but it never feels tiresome. It increases the themes of isolation, and gives an extra sense of scale to the goal of the Wanderer. It also contributes to the narrative of his physical and moral decay as the vast wilderness and crushing loneliness grind down both his body and his mind, stripping him of everything but his will and purpose. In this instance too, the lack of music adds to this atmosphere and the absolute emptiness of this land.

In DA:I on the other hand, all that wilderness just makes me think "Man, more trotting around before something happens. Hope someone decides to say something. Do I want to run for ten minutes across the Hissing Wastes and hope someone speaks, or ride across in five and have nothing to break up the monotony?" It contributes nothing to the narrative or gameplay of the game. By shrinking some of the large zones (especially the afformentioned Hissing Wastes [I get it, it's big and empty]) there would be opportunity to explore without compromising pacing so much. Agreeing with other people, I think filling them with more relevant, cinematic sub-narratives would benefit them as well.

[duckley]

You can have your cake and eat it too. There are rpg games with solid plot that are not entirely linear, however they are not the sandbox type Skyrim is. Plus I'm not all that convinced that the story suffers solely because of the maps, there is much more that just doesn't work quite as it could.
 
I wouldn't eliminate any of the areas, I would however employ different exploration mechanics. The concept behind DAI is good it just needs more tuning.

Which games are you thinking of?

[duckley]

I am not a big fan of huge open world games.While there were enjoyable elements in Skyrim, having so many quests and such a large world really causes me to feel significant disconnect and disengagement with the story.

Where Dragon age wins for me, is that there are relationships that develop and are meaninful, so although I did feel some level of disconnect with the main story at times due to all the sidecquests and collections, the relationships, romances and banter make the game feel more meaningful.


I hope that the dragon age series goes smaller and not bigger

[DragonAddict]

I would say, better storylines, main plot, character development and side quests versus just an open world game and add back all those features that were removed since DAO......storage chest....<sheesh and being able to talk to and give gifts to all party characters and change armor, weapons, items on the fly, etc.>

[Bioware-Critic]

Story and "real" side-quests all the way !!!

 

 

I enjoy open-world settings to an extend but they cannot compete with a well told story, cutscenes a real connection to the people in this world and "real" change and lives affected by me ...

I want to see this change and the affect I have through talks with the people through story arcs that change accordingly and I would easily exchange any "fetch-quest" that is low on flavor and "real" impact any day for a nice drawn out story arc! I have the feeling that only merely a handful of stories in Inquisition even got the attention they deserve. I wanted to know so much about almost any story I came across on my first playthrough of Inquisition. But no matter if I wanted to pursue a certain story further there was no follow-up content to be found! For example the "Mage-Templar-War" ... The shortness and shallowness of that content was one of the biggest dissappointments I ever had in a Dragon Age game. I thought that this was one of the really big story-arcs in Inquisition. I cannot fathom why this was so damn short. It was extremely unsatisfying to see this play out the way it did. I thought this conflict is one of the main things Inquisition is about ...

 

 

And to make one thing clear:

 

The Dragon Age series contains games (*cough - Origins*) that are supposed to be real RPG's!

Skyrim is a "Action-RPG"! No more - no less ...

I know it was successful but so is "Candy-Crush". I care about quality content more than anything! And there is no way in hell anyone can copy a success like Skyrim had it ... "just like that". I think you need some luck and timing for that too. And more.

Skyrim also had such a long run because of all the mods that were created for it. The mod-related videos on Youtube generated all the hype surounding that game and it was also where all the publicity came from. If a company does not have this on their side ... there is no way in hell to "copy" that kind of success!

[ThreeF]

Which games are you thinking of?

Well, one that has stuck in my head lately as i'm replaying it is Tactic Ogre: Let Us Cling Together. The story there is very focused, there is in-story branching based on your actions, the rivality system is interesting too. Almost every area is unlocked via mandatory visiting it through plot, sort of like DAI has you visit the Hinterlands. Of course the revisiting purpose of these areas in TO: LUCT is tactical combat and traveling, so there is no exploration there, something not suitable for DA. What DA could learn from this game however is how to have a more controlled exploration and better story pacing. In a way DAI tries to do this, the idea is there, but the mechanics sort  of fail

 

DAI could for instance introduce 90% of the areas via plot (like it did with Hinterlands and Crestwood), create conditions to force the payer progress the plot and leave areas,  one way could be by not opening the whole areas at once but to create a progression  within the area. This is sort of there (WT missions for  reconstructing bridges, opening caves, etc.), but could have been implemented more often and for the most part should be  connected to the plot instead of random quests. Another thing DAI could do is open some areas for free exploration post-game, you can of  course yourself leave some areas unlocked, but it would work better if it was not left  to the player, it would create sense of reward.

 

Generally my point is most people play this game for its story and not for free exploration, DAI should leave the maps in but control the exploration more tightly, tie it to the plot and less people will have problem with it.

[DomeWing333]

Yeah, I'd make the trade. While Emprise Du Lion is one of my favorite areas to explore, it, along with the Forbidden Oasis, Fallow Mire, and Hissing Wastes felt tangential to the story. I would have preferred more of a focus on the main plot for the initial release and then maybe adding in those areas later via DLC. 

[PhroXenGold]

One issue I have with making so much open world to explore is that it interacts really badly with having the kind of main plot most RPGs, and BW ones in particular, have. The Big Bad is trying to take over the world and yet I can spend as long as I like wandering around, exploring, doing sidequests and collecting herbs without anything happening. What is this great world threatening monster doing? Sitting around chillin'? Why isn't he actually trying to take over the world while I'm looking for elfroot? I find this to be massively immersion breaking. There should be consequences for exploring and doing side quests instead of advancing the plot. Thats not so say that you should never be able to to these things, but that the entire world shouldn't freeze until you're ready to move on with the story.

 

To be fair, this isn't something that just applies to DA:I, but it just seems more egregious here than in other games. In Bethesda games, the main plot tends to be crap and thus ignoring it isn't a major issue, while in previous BW games, while the plot won't advance until you want it to, there's much less side content to do so you don't spend nearly as much time not doing the story and thus it's not such a clear immersion breaker.

[Sekou]

I love both series' and while I prefer Bethesda games overall, I am drawn to BW games because of their stronger writing teams.

At times it feels like BW melded open world and storytelling and at others they didn't. Oh well.

As for the OP's choice? Meh. All I ask is for devs to do their respective games well. You do the creation part, I do the playing part. They succeed, I enjoy.

[thebigbad1013]

I could do with a few less areas in exchange for more story. While I enjoyed exploring, it did feel at times that it was too disconnected from the main story, and the main story itself did seem a bit on the short side.

[DomeWing333]

One issue I have with making so much open world to explore is that it interacts really badly with having the kind of main plot most RPGs, and BW ones in particular, have. The Big Bad is trying to take over the world and yet I can spend as long as I like wandering around, exploring, doing sidequests and collecting herbs without anything happening. What is this great world threatening monster doing? Sitting around chillin'? Why isn't he actually trying to take over the world while I'm looking for elfroot? I find this to be massively immersion breaking. There should be consequences for exploring and doing side quests instead of advancing the plot. Thats not so say that you should never be able to to these things, but that the entire world shouldn't freeze until you're ready to move on with the story.

 

To be fair, this isn't something that just applies to DA:I, but it just seems more egregious here than in other games. In Bethesda games, the main plot tends to be crap and thus ignoring it isn't a major issue, while in previous BW games, while the plot won't advance until you want it to, there's much less side content to do so you don't spend nearly as much time not doing the story and thus it's not such a clear immersion breaker.

 

I thought the game made it clear what Corypheus was doing with his time. Every time you put a stop to Venatori or Red Templar activity, whether it be in the field or on the War Table, you get a glimpse into what Corypheus is planning and doing. Infiltrating the Orlesian Court, performing red lyrium experiments on giants, trying to assassinate the ruler of Fereldan. He's playing his own evil version of Dragon Age Inquisition, complete with evil sidequests that give him evil power and evil influence.

[PhroXenGold]

I thought the game made it clear what Corypheus was doing with his time. Every time you put a stop to Venatori or Red Templar activity, whether it be in the field or on the War Table, you get a glimpse into what Corypheus is planning and doing. Infiltrating the Orlesian Court, performing red lyrium experiments on giants, trying to assassinate the ruler of Fereldan. He's playing his own evil version of Dragon Age Inquisition, complete with evil sidequests that give him evil power and evil influence.

 

But he never advances his main quest unless I'm ready for him to do so, thats the issue. In my current playthrough, I've had Wicked Eyes and Wicked Hearts sitting there waiting for me to do for ages while I've been off exploring areas. I've cleared 4 entire zones since that quest became available - once you figure in travel, sleeping and so on, that's probably weeks of in game time passing. And yet, WIcked Eyes and Wicked Hearts just sits there waiting for me to chose to get on with the main story. Apparently this is a major immediate threat, and yet nothing happens while I'm off collecting every bit of elfroot in Thedas. That makes no sense what so ever. If I ignore the main plot to go and explore, then the plot should move on without me - inevitably in a bad way for me...

[DomeWing333]

But he never advances his main quest unless I'm ready for him to do so, thats the issue. In my current playthrough, I've had Wicked Eyes and Wicked Hearts sitting there waiting for me to do for ages while I've been off exploring areas. I've cleared 4 entire zones since that quest became available - once you figure in travel, sleeping and so on, that's probably weeks of in game time passing. And yet, WIcked Eyes and Wicked Hearts just sits there waiting for me to chose to get on with the main story. Apparently this is a major immediate threat, and yet nothing happens while I'm off collecting every bit of elfroot in Thedas. That makes no sense what so ever. If I ignore the main plot to go and explore, then the plot should move on without me - inevitably in a bad way for me...

Well, in regards to that particular quest, it's Celene's party. Neither you nor Corypheus are in actuality determining when that quest takes place. The threat is only as immediate as Celene's calendar makes it. It might be announced several months in advance for all you know and all you're doing when you choose to pursue the quest is fast-forwarding time to the date of the event.