78 réponses à ce sujet

[phaonica]

In my opinion they should just set Crestwood as the path to follow in future installations. That area is nearly perfect and well balanced in all its elements.

I agree. Crestwood is the best designed zone in the game, in my opinion.

[Han Shot First]

Story > Open world sandboxes

 

There has yet to be a Bethesda game that hasn't bored me.

[Bioware-Critic]

All they had to do was Origins with everything 2x. Allies, region, enemies.....thats all.

 

WORD!

 

 

I mean I want Bioware to be creatvie and grow ... But the moment they decided (when they made plans for DA2) that they will abandon some of the features Origins had or morph them into something else instead of developing them furhter - EVERYTHING went to **** !!!

And to me ... this is still the biggest problem the DA series has today. There is no substitute for substance, depth, complexity and culture in RPG developement. Even all the DA2 fans are screaming: "Give us back our tactics, you morons !!!" ... and so on ...

 

And I have to agree and say it again and again:

 

Stop this "dumbing-down" and stop to try to give us some kind of "substitute" for real RPG-substance!

As a gamer, I will choose quality over quantity anytime and never look back ...

 

I firmly believe that when you put quantity ahead of quality ... as a developer ..., YOU WILL LOOSE!

You will loose your credibility and your loyal fans and money. And you will loose every time aaand rightfully so!

[Average Designer]

I prefer satisfying story over open world exploration.

 

Was Skyrim good? Yes.

 

Does it fit Dragon Age games? No it does not.

 

My reasoning is thus. BW was better at story telling and not massive over world exploration. Every part of their game had a story element that connected to the main game.

 

Skyrim while beautiful and had a lot of exploration was not heavily story centric. They had a lot of mini stories peppered throughout their game but the main storyline was not the draw of Skyrim or any of the other Elder Scroll games. The main draw of these games were the mini stories like the Assassins Guild or the Thieves Guild or the Mage College.

 

Dragon Age and many of BW games were always better with the story telling. DA:I failed in that aspect and it is sad because they were trying to make DA:I into a cross breed between Skyrim and The Witcher but losing their identity in the process.

 

I'd prefer to have more story and less giant empty world exploration with no stories to even bother with.

[Bioware-Critic]

On a selfish note...all these gameplay problems will make for a better ME4.

 

Ugh! Wha... UGH! §$%/%/()P&%&%$%&)O%&/(

 

Fu.. §$%//)( 

 

*sighs*

 

Well, I would LOOOOOVE to believe that this will actually happen!

 

But at this point - although I am aware that Casey Hudson Mac Walters is not Mike Laidlaw - I strongly feel that Biowares employees really adamantly refrain from learning ANYTHING that is of any importance to them or their work. I know that sounds maniacal - I do. But I really do not get the impression that they are proving that they really want to make good on their word, here ...with Inquisition!

Just like other forumites, I want to help them as much as possible and really wish they will listen to the BSN feedback!

But so far I have seen only "AIR" and "WORDS" ... from them!

 

For example:

They kind of have promised to make changes with the fifth patch (the link is in my signature) and that they will open a beta-test for it for which we can sign up. But I have not read anything regarding if they will implement these changes in the console versions as well !?! I played DA:Origins on PS3 and had all the gameplay features the PC version had (99% of it) at my disposal. And if Bioware tries to take us for fools by disregarding the console versions when it comes to the changes the PC players will get with the fifth DA:I patch ...

 

... another developer will get my money for their franchises instead of Bioware!

...

I am not as gullible as EA likes me to be ...

Console gamers are as demanding as PC gamers - believe it EA!

 

Otoh, if BioWare can pull it off and save Inquisition ...

I will buy it a second time for another console together with all it's DLC's!

>> Their choice! <<

[SnakeCode]

Casey Hudson left Bioware last year. 

[Bioware-Critic]

Casey Hudson left Bioware last year. 

 

Right! Forgot about that ...

 

I was used to him I guess the new one is ... *google is your friend* ... Mac Walters. (Ehm? *3 minutes of silence*) Well good luck Mac!

Better not screw anything up ... or ...dumb down the gameplay ... BUT, NO PRESSURE

 

*Edit: I will be really happy when they succeed and surprise us with awesome new gameplay and awesome new worlds and characters and so on ... But I am also really reserved in that regard ... I guess. I really did not mean to offend BioWare, any fans or Mac Walters with my concerns ...

[Bioware-Critic]

  If this is an open game world they can keep it.  

 

I felt almost incidental in the game...just there to prompt the movies and button mash.

 

Right there with you, Sunbrow!

 

I enjoy open world and I think the Thedas shown to us is really beautiful but I buy DA games for a lot of other things than the open world aspect that Skyrim managed to pull off really well. I buy them for everything Skyrim cannot deliver for two cents! Even if Bethesda would give it their "best shot" and kill themselves!

 

And the Inquisitor really feels like a "visitor" of the game world that everybody else simply praises out of lack of having someone else around that they can put on the frontline. The Inquisitor ... the pal ... with the "glow-y thing-y" in the middle of the hand ... or something ... UGH $%$&/O)"$ ... Never mind!

 

 

Take care, Sunbrow!

 

P.s.: I LOVE your new Avatar! Awesome

 

Here, take a look at this ...

Spoiler

[Pukey Paul]

This has been my problem with Elder Scrolls and Skyrim. I think I must be the only person to have bothered completing the main campaign in elder scrolls, amd because the open world was so big and I did so much I could never be bothered with a 2nd playthrough, so when I got Skyrim I got bored after 2 weeks as to me there was very little difference and no real story follow.

With DA and ME, I love these story driven RPGs. I've replayed them all countless times. I'm on my 3rd playthrough on DAI and want to try a 4th with sword and shield but will give it break 1st as the open world has too much to do IMO that takes my focus away from the main campaign.

[TheJediSaint]

I thought both the open world and the story worked well in DAI.

[Teligth]

I thought both the open world and the story worked well in DAI.

But they really weren't tied together :/

[AlexiaRevan]

But they really weren't tied together :/

exactly ! I finished the game at Lvl17...and there were like 4 map I didnt visit and the game didnt urge me to go there.....  

[turuzzusapatuttu]

A good story in a open world sandbox? I guess I'll answer after I'll play The Witcher 3. CDPR never failed me.

 

 

On a selfish note...all these gameplay problems will make for a better ME4.

 

In BioWare they never learns from their mistakes.

[pasmith31]

I'll take a good story anytime, exploring large maps which offer nothing more than the same old generic loot and combat holds little gameplay value and zero replay value to me. My first and only play-through to date took just over 160 hours and I looked over every inch of each map and was not impressed with what I found. I feel large open worlds need to offer something after the story has been completed but this game offers nothing outside the story worth playing IMO. Also a big open world plus the MP component which are not linked was a silly design choice as people wanting more of non-story content would gravitate to the MP game while people wanting to play the single player game would most likely be doing it for other story options rendering the large maps a wast of space.

 

So in effect the large open maps of DA:I once seen will offer very little to anyone playing the game a 2nd, 3rd .... time. I was hoping to came across one or two elite adventuring bands from the enemy which would be very hard to defeat but might of carried 1 or 2 unique items of worth, perhaps a crazy hermit, or a weather event where we take cover in a cave or tent and have a chat with my companions for a few minutes or so. Pretty much a few non-generic mysteries on each map would of made the game just that little bit more immersive. Another thing that bugged me with the "open world of DA:I" was we had mounts but I never used them as they didn't run much faster, turning was annoying as was mining or collecting herbs, plus party banter was lost.

 

At the end of my play-through I was scratching my head at the design of this game, while I liked the story, I feel they spent a lot of time and resources of features such as mounts and large pointless maps filled with generic quests and NCPs.

 

I wouldn't get rid of any maps but I'd like to see most of them about 1/2 the size they are now and the time and resources spent on them used to add a few non-generic mysteries and tired to the main story and a few good side quests.

[Zatche]

Would you get rid of three of Dragon Age: Inquisition's large, beautiful, but storyless open-world environments in exchange for thirty additional interesting, cinematic, plot-related quests in the environments that remain?

Yes. As much as I enjoyed the new open spaces, I think the pendulum swung a bit too far. I'd start with getting rid of the Hissing Wastes. Emerald Glades I could lose as we have enough forest environments. And the Forbidden Oasis as I didn't care too much for the confusing map or the Shards.

And I'd like the story content to go mainly towards Crestwood, Emprise Du Lion, and the Exalted Plains.

Spoiler

After reading TME, I was hoping for more out of the Michel/Ishmael plot. And I'd move the refugee/FreeMen plot of the Glades closer to the Civil War trenches. I would've liked seeing the collateral damage of the Orlesian Civil War to hit harder. I also would've enjoyed more cinematics/dialogue out of the Crestwood mayor plot.

[Nefla]

I would gladly give up large empty maps in favor of fun, long, interesting quests. Those empty maps were not fun for me at all. I am a huge fan of both Skyrim(though I prefer Fallout:New Vegas) and DA:O but DA:I just did not capture the elements of Skyrim that I liked.

 

Why was Skyrim fun for me? The answer isn't "because the map was big" it's because of how those maps were filled as well as the combat and gameplay mechanics that I loved. I have always found active combat (player skill and reflex based) to be fun while I find DA style combat (you select your moves and sit there waiting for your character to automatically do them) boring and tedious. With DA:O however, I gladly trudged through the combat that I didn't care for to get to the story, characters, lore, etc...that I loved. What I like about Skyrim:

 

-The combat (especially archery) and I like the deathblows and the fact that enemies are sent flying if you are much stronger than them or kill them with a critical hit

 

-The crafting: I felt like there was so much I could make and with so many different uses. I am obsessed with enchanting, alchemy is really useful, even smithing gave you a decent amount of looks and variations to your weapons and armor (way more than DA:I, though I like DA:I's ability to change the colors and patterns with different materials)

 

-The non combat skills like stealth, pickpocketing, etc...were a lot of fun

 

-There was a lot of variation in the looks of your armor, clothing, and weapons that you could get and none of it was restricted from you for being a certain race.

 

-The faction storylines: I found these amazing! The storylines for the Dark Brotherhood, and thieves guild for example were better thought out and better connected than the main plot of DA:I in my opinion.

 

-The fact that you can talk to every NPC in the world (aside from bandits and such who are attacking you) and while some only have a short line of dialogue or two, many have long conversations that tell you about themselves, the state of the world, what's going on in that specific town, general lore, etc...I also like that they move around, do things, talk to each other, go to bed and close their shops each night, react to threats, etc...plus the fact that they could die gave me a sense of urgency when a dragon was attacking a town. The DA:I NPCs are mostly non interactive cardboard cutouts and there are almost none you can talk to who aren't quest givers. Enemies can swarm all around them and they just stand there like a silent statue.

 

-The fact that there are several towns and villages that each look different, have NPCs to talk to, shops to frequent, (houses to steal from...), quests within them and around them, quests that involve that specific areas lore and issues as well as ones that take you farther away. 

 

-The music OMG the music in Skyrim is just masterful. I think DA:I really suffered from having those huge maps exist not only in lonely emptiness but in near silence as well. A 30 second blip of music every 45 minutes is just not going to cut it.

 

-Most of the quests. The average quest in Skyrim was decently long and engaging, they were pretty varied and creative and many were long, awesome, and multi part. DA:I took the very lowest tier of Skyrim quest, the "Jarl's bounty posting" type quest or the "get me 3 flawless amythest" quests and rather than it being the lowest, crappiest tier of quest in DA:I as well, it was the only type of quest. DA:I had no long, engaging side quests. The closest thing was the Crestwood undead quest and although it was hands down the best side quest in DA:I, it still felt lacking to me. There wasn't enough of a human element. The only person we could talk to in Crestwood was the Mayor and he leaves right after the quest so who did we save? I'm given no real reason to care just like with every other DA:I NPC and side quest. I feel like the only reason to do that quest was to make the weather nicer in that area.

 

What they did with DA:I did not wow me. It didn't have the elements I liked from Skyrim, and the things I liked from Dragon Age were quite watered down (likely because so much of the resources went to graphics and building those giant maps). I'm glad we got race options back though.

[Violetbliss]

For me it's not so much the size as there is some shortcuts here and there with the contemporary story being told from Codex entries a bit too much. Easily missable, less impact than other forms such as dialogue scenes or such. I feel like that is the biggest thing which makes quests feel a bit disjointed here and there, despite there being ingame reasons for almost everything in the game. You just need to take note, which isn't made as smooth as it could have been.

 

I really love the codex entries but I feel like they work better for historic tidbits, factions, etc.

[FreeWitch]

Is it bad to like both? LOL

 

If I had to pick with a Bioware game I'm going to say story.  Not that I don't enjoy their type of open world to the extent that you have it.  So far through my playthrough it seems too ... quiet.  However I do enjoy not having to fight every 5 seconds too.  A better balance is needed here I think.  For me, Bioware has always been about their stories and companions.  They don't really have the hang of an open world "type" concept.  Maybe they just need some time to fine tune it.

 

I love Bethesda's open worlds because I can create my own stories and let my imagination run away with me.  I can be what I want, go where I want and do things in an order that makes sense to me.  However I will not use Skyrim as an example because truth be told, I was sorely disappointed in that game for many many reasons.  There were *some* things I liked but overall it was a major downgrade.  My idea of a great open world is Morrowind and I still play it to this day. 

[BubbleDncr]

If you have a moment to spare, please answer this question as honestly and concisely as possible:

Would you get rid of three of Dragon Age: Inquisition's large, beautiful, but storyless open-world environments in exchange for thirty additional interesting, cinematic, plot-related quests in the environments that remain?
 

 

Yes, I would. Tho, unfortunately that's basically taking work off of the environment team and onto the writing/cinematic/programming teams, so it's not an even trade that the developers can just do. 

[AWTEW]

On a selfish note...all these gameplay problems will make for a better ME4.

 

Oh I don't know with all the 'back to form' talk, and apparent DAI succsess. I'd expect large maps that you have to  collect super-magic energy to power up the space ship so you can move to your next destination. 

[Nette]

I'd pick more story in a heartbeat. I play Bioware games for the characters, romances and story. Sure the large enviroments are beautiful but I miss the crazy npc's you met in DAO, the rhyming oak, the crazy hermit, the dalish couple you could break up or unite, the nutty chantry sisters in Denerim etc. Inquisition lacks this and it makes the world feel empty. I also think there should be more character interaction, a chance to get to know them better, and flesh out the inqys personality.

[Saphiron123]

I think bioware sacrificed story, cinematics, personal dialogue and character commentary on side quests for bigger maps.

Thing is, maps have to be interesting. Sure I expect some fetch quests, but not ALL fetch quests.

The hinterlands was so boring I almost wrote the game off. It just wasn't fun. And if a friend hadn't told me to leave the area, I wouldn't 'to be writing this today, becuase I would have out the game away.

Above all, make it fun. Don't make me walk 6 miles to deliver ashes because a note on the ground told me to.

What makes me love dragon age, what makes me replay it, is the characters, how they interact, how they all have unique stuff to say about every mission and to each other.

I don't feel that in inquisition. Make it fun, make it feel real and personal.

And the worst part is the side quest bosses, guys who would have had dialogue and cutscenes and all that in last dragon age games get so little fanfare, half the time I don't realize I'm fighting a boss until it takes a whole to kill... And then I don't care, because that boss has zero personality.

I'd rather have smaller maps and a great story that keeps me coming back, then big empty ones and a search for 36 copies of Varrick's damn book.

[Nefla]

I'd pick more story in a heartbeat. I play Bioware games for the characters, romances and story. Sure the large enviroments are beautiful but I miss the crazy npc's you met in DAO, the rhyming oak, the crazy hermit, the dalish couple you could break up or unite, the nutty chantry sisters in Denerim etc. Inquisition lacks this and it makes the world feel empty. I also think there should be more character interaction, a chance to get to know them better, and flesh out the inqys personality.

This is my biggest problem with DA:I

[Raoni Luna]

I'm interested to know which of these two things BioWare fans value most highly. 

Do BioWare fans really want Dragon Age to become more like Skyrim? 

If you have a moment to spare, please answer this question as honestly and concisely as possible:

Would you get rid of three of Dragon Age: Inquisition's large, beautiful, but storyless open-world environments in exchange for thirty additional interesting, cinematic, plot-related quests in the environments that remain?

(Note: You can eliminate any three open-world environments that you choose, and the thirty story quests you get in return are of varying size and importance, but a handful of them contribute greatly to the game's central narrative.)

Edit: Yes, as many below have pointed out, having both is the ideal solution, and I wholeheartedly agree. I'm simply trying to determine which element BioWare fans value the most if push comes to shove. Think of it as a big, BioWare-style decision, like choosing Templars or Mages. lol

I would easily get rid of every single location ia DAI for 16x16 monochromatic pixels room if the game was better. But Inquisition made me realize what means a big company doing a big AAA+++++++ultrauber game... is it going to suck. So I just left crappy blockbusters to focus on indie goldies. In fact the game industry was the last one I resort to this. Music was surely the first then others followed, I had hope in games since nerds made them always go for high quality but games are not for nerds anymore, quality dropped fast, and now it is like anything else, it is impossible to enjoy anything mainstream.

[Zatche]

Yes, I would. Tho, unfortunately that's basically taking work off of the environment team and onto the writing/cinematic/programming teams, so it's not an even trade that the developers can just do.

I do keep seeing that cinematics is a bottleneck. Clearly, they need to clone John Epler.