Personally, I think Vivienne's ethnicity made her even more cringeworthy than her personality already makes her. Having the one black companion in the series being the main advocate for keeping oppressed minorities down strikes me as... problematic.
Please don't. And as a "person of color," whatever that means, I happen to like how Vivienne held her own views and didn't bend to will of the Inquisitor or go for the pity party like just about everyone else.
Pity parties are so terribly dull, darling.
Vivienne? Is that you, my dear?
It's getting a little redundant how many people believe Viv is all OPPRESSTHEMAGES because if you actually do talk to her about mage rights/next Divine she supports Cassandra's platform for reform, which, if you recruited the mages as allies, is pretty liberal and allows them to choose whether or not to return to the Circles. She's definitely more hardline if you ask her to become Divine, but that's more a question of her personality than her political views - she pretty much says "there is no greater pleasure than bringing order with your own hand" - Viv's super type A and bossy and control-freaky and a lot of your dialogue with her reveals that she's basically grown up realizing that if you want something done right you have to do it yourself.
Viv actually out and out says she deplores what happened to the mages at Kirkwall and really doesn't like the rampant abuse in the Circles - which is why she thinks mages should have a greater role in the Chantry - not only because mages best understand what they are capable of, but also because mages need stronger advocacy. She simply doesn't believe in tearing down the existing system for the sake of lulz. What people need to understand is Viv is a reformer but she's a moderate and a realist. Her issue with the mage rebellion isn't that they voted to dissolve the Circles it's that they chose to dissolve the Circles when all mages were being scrutinized for Anders' and Orsino's actions. She's a shrewd politician who realizes that the timing of the mage rebellion in the eyes of the rest of Thedas is the equivalent of a resounding acceptance and advocacy of what Anders and Orsino did. Basically she just thinks Fiona et. al. were short-sighted and hot-headed and did more to hurt the cause of mages than help it.
Yes~ Madame de Fer
It's not just Vivienne's political views, it's those combined with the fact that she's both a massive control freak and has carved out a very cushy position for herself politically, from which she can now look down on other mages who aren't protected by the empress.
Vivienne's no Alrik, to be sure... but neither is she Leliana, and Leliana is the only one whom I trust in this case.
If you talk to her at Skyhold about the mage rebellion she'll tell you that she empathizes with how they felt, but really could they have chosen a worse timing to do what they did?
A lot of what people hate about Viv is really just her realism - Cole provides insight into how she forcibly shuts herself off from becoming overly emotionally attached to many things because it's a weakness, both in the Circles and within the Orlesian court, and she's had to fight to survive (tooth and nail) - and she exemplifies the type of person who believes in changing oneself to adapt to the world you find yourself in rather than trying to change the world to adapt to you. I don't think there's anything wrong with that.
Does she want power? Yes - because she believes that she is better equipped than most to utilize power to influence society for the better. You see that a lot in her conversations with Cass - how she implies that Cass has a responsibility to take the power that Cass, as a hero and a symbol herself, possesses. Viv's flaw here is really her arrogance in believing that she can and will use power more effectively than most (but again, she also will defer to people she respects like the Inquizzy or Cass - there are just very few people she views as her intellectual equals/superiors)
She isn't callous - there's banter with Cole that implies she was worried about him (after Cole's personal), but is simply unwilling to express it. She also *mothers* IB if you have them in the same party (that one banter where she's scolding him for picking at his wounds is so adorable). Again I think you have to take her breadth of emotional expression within the context of her life - she's spent so much of it in a place where you have to live semi-permanently under a mask and emotions can be fatal that she's learned to discipline her own expression militantly. (This is really obvious after Bastien's death - it's obviously devastating for her, but she doesn't really let anyone express their sympathy and brushes all of it off with "it will be fine, dear" - which puts a lot of her reactions to the experiences of others in context)
Viv is arrogant and narrow-minded about approaches to magic/theology that are external to what she was taught and yes, a royal ****** in the best way possible, but she's never unnecessarily brutal (where have you seen her use unnecessary force relative to what seems par for the course at Orlais?), she's not an emotionlesstramplesonallyourfeelingsbecauseIcan pinnacle of callousness, and really there is nothing inherently wrong with wanting power/having ambition.
I honestly think a lot of the "Viv is a terrible human being" sentiment comes from players viewing themselves as revolutionaries and being jarred by having a companion who is a reformist but inherently counterrevolutionary. She's not the world's nicest person or most altruistic person and she can be a manipulative ****** and she's downright terrible to Blackwall (which turns out - deserved? idk Blackwall leaves me with complicated feelings), but in the balance she's still someone who cares about the world she lives in and is willing to put her life on the line to protect it (it's very slight but you can see hints of her unbending towards Cole - at one point Cole is all excited because she referred to him as "he" instead of "it" and Viv gets all denialmode). Maybe it's because I'm a type A economics major who has a serious bitchy streak and appreciation for a well cut silhouette and excellently thrown shade, but I can respect the kind of woman Viv is.
I think it would be interesting for us to also examine how our own prejudices/personalities/world views influence our reactions to specific characters. I will be the first person to admit I'm biased in favor of Viv over Sera because yes, I do have a streak of elitism (I grew up comfortably in a middle-class Asian American household in an intellectual, wealthy suburban neighborhood raised by two parents who both have advanced degrees and I attend one of the world's best liberal arts institutions - I am nothing if not privileged) and given my own personality as I've mentioned in the quoted post~ Viv and I would either be absolute rivals or best friends, whereas I would instinctively look down on Sera and just want nothing to do with her.
That doesn't mean that Sera as a character isn't worthy of my respect or doesn't have positive traits - I don't like her abrasive personality or her lack of social finesse, but I appreciate how she does try to help in her own way and, despite all of her rambling about sovereigns et al, there is a strong altruistic streak there. She doesn't have the best character growth in the game, but she does try to understand (now and then) elfy things and magic things before she gets freaked out and flees. And I understand why she is the way she is and I can empathize with that and understand why it is important for me to engage with her perspective.
On the other hand, I openly admit my affection/affinity towards Viv usually lets me ignore a lot of her terribleness towards Blackwall and Cole (Cole I do understand though - remember, Viv is a Circle Mage post-Harrowing who thinks Cole is a demon, he scares her as much as magic scares Sera, Viv is just too proud to admit it), esp because I can be just as caustic towards people I don't like (deservedly/undeservedly and there are plenty of people I've disliked undeservedly. we're human, it happens.)
Anyways~ I think it's worthwhile to continue this discussion, but I would like to ask everyone to be open about their own prejudices towards Viv as a character rather than being ISPEAKDETRUTHDATEEZABSOLUTE. Our own perspectives and experiences can and should influence our reactions towards fictional characters, but like Brother Genetivi states, we should recognize and acknowledge their role in our perceptions.
Retour en haut
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) but for the entire stereotypical black woman she really isn't
