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[Cecilia]

Also just for some meta-analysis,

 

Vivienne's starting game tarot card is The High Priestess from the Major Arcana

 

 

 

The High Priestess represents wisdom, serenity, knowledge and understanding. She is often described as the guardian of the unconscious. She sits in front of the thin veil of awareness, which is all that separates us from our inner selves. The High Priestess knows the secret of how to access these realms. She represents spiritual enlightenment and inner illumination, divine knowledge and wisdom. She has a deep, intuitive understanding of the Universe and uses this knowledge to teach rather than to try to control others.

 

After her companion quest, it changes to the Queen of Cups from the Minor Arcana. If you gave her the snowy wyvern heart, it is right side up:

 

 

The card depicts a mature woman of fair-complexion and golden hair who holds a lidded cup. She is described as a model of a loving virtue, one who is purer of heart than most, a loving mother and a loyal friend.

 

If you gave her a common wyvern heart, it is upside down:

 

 

The inverted card may warn the querent of a false lover or a deceitful friend or companion who pretends to be of a pure heart but is treacherous and manipulative.

 

Finally, if Viv is made Divine, her card becomes The World from the Major Arcana:

 

 

The World represents an ending to a cycle of life, a pause in life before the next big cycle beginning with the fool.[4] The figure is at once male and female, above and below, suspended between the heavens and the earth. It is completeness. It is also said to represent cosmic consciousness; the potential of perfect union with the One Power of the universe.[5] It tells us full happiness is also to give back to the world, sharing what we have learned or gained.

 

If we take all of these cards together, there is a theme of understanding and knowledge that runs through them (esp the first card and the Divine card) - the way tarot reading works, I believe, and the way that the companion cards seem to play out, is that these cards are actually directed at the companions themselves more than they are representative of the companions. So the first card would imply that the encounter with the Inquisition/Inquisitor is the beginning of a learning process for Viv - joining the Inquisition is what begins to allow her to access her inner self, something that has potentially been suppressed for so long during her time in Orlais. 

 

The end of the journey is The World (which, interestingly enough, is also the end of the Major Arcana/journey of The Fool - Sera's first card) in which Viv is behooved to take what she has learned and return it to the world. 

 

The companion quest cards are pretty self explanatory so~

[Rekkampum]

My biggest problem with Viv is that the writers seemed biased against us to show her "political and conversation prowess." We're not allowed to have a discussion, or respond in a way that seems equal. The only instances in which this happens it's Solas replying to her, but the inquisitor? It's specially painfull if you get the scene in which she decides to move your stuff around. You can't do anything to get ahead of this fight. A Inquisitor that was aggresive could have just kicked her out of the Inquisition, get her investigated by Templars. But no, instead it seems that since her character has to be that good in conversations she just need to have conversations in which she is always dropping the metaphorical microphone, and each time she does that it seems she has to gloat by calling someone darling, and we know how much she uses that word.

I like her. I like her best whenever she's not sassing because it's just overdone. On the other side, conceptually I love Sera, and how it was realized. Personally I can't stand her but I have to applaud the work done there.

 

There's that video on youtube floating around where she owns your Inquisitor if you try to fuss with her over her that.

[Rekkampum]

I mostly don't like Vivienne due to the fact that she's a politician first and a mage second. I.e. she always puts her own standing, power and advancement over the interest of those she represents. She also has a remarkably narrow world view even for a circle mage, she refuses to acknowledge less than malevolent spirits, which is rather hypocritical given that she's a knight enchanter and thus carries a spirit around on her belt.

 

Also she can be pointlessly rude for no reason than her own spite, seriously what's her beef with Blackwall before Adamant? She just shits on him for saying hello.

 

I've played a fair number of BioWare games and the companions are always a driving force but I've never met one that I can't find redeeming qualities in like Viv. 

 

I have a feeling she may have been on to Blackwall given his former position when he was in Orlais.

 

As to your last statement, I'm guessing you forgot about Morinth.

[In Exile]

My main problem with Vivienne is that she comes across as incredibly petty and childish for someone who is supposed to be a master of the "game". The few insights into orlesian politics and the circle system she does offer are rather flippant (or downright wrong). And if you don’t agree with her views she throws a fit by...moving furniture.

But I think the whole point is that she's not good at the Game. Her one notable success is being appointed to what amounted to a joke position (Court Enchanter) and bedding Duke Bastien. Otherwise she parrots Chantry views on mages, which was likely how she rose to be First Enchanter in the first place. She's not politically savvy - you can see that much in how completely irrelevant she was in the Circles proper.

[Qun00]

I don't think so, but you can effectively cut off her power base by doing:

• Mage allies
• Gaspard in sole power in Orlais
• Hardened Leliana as Divine
• Regular wyvern heart in her personal quest

In this case, the rebel mages are a power in their own right.  Leliana reforms the Chantry and is a swift, merciless opponent who isn't trifled with.  Without Celene or Bastien in Orlais, Vivienne loses both of her patrons and, likely, her spot in the Orlesian Court.  And, for added insult, you humiliate her as you trick her into creating a useless potion and watching her beloved die in front of her.
 

I'll keep that in mind.

[Addai]

I have two non-fiction books on Royal Mistresses (and other historical royal favourites).  I'm kind of fascinated by these women (and men, in some cases).  Perhaps that's why I'm so interested in Vivienne.  To be a woman from a persecuted group who faces prejudice because of her skin color and to work her way through political machinations to be one of the most powerful women in Orlais?  That's fascinating to me.  Even if I cringe at some of the things that she says, I just find her so interesting and unique of a character.  It's honestly why, even if I don't agree with some of her positions, she's my favorite companion in the game. Even more so than Dorian, who's my favorite romance to date in the series.

I missed this earlier. I've read Les Grandes Horizontales. I mostly pity those women and their seeming freedom which is really bondage of a different sort. It is indeed possible that the writers intended to show a woman who was actually happy in her station rather than exploited, but again, that still doesn't preclude that she used murder to secure it.

 

However I would also not put it past the writers to have written a truly malevolent character for once. I've seen fans of Cersei Lannister try to turn cartwheels to show how she's really just a misunderstood, put-upon woman to the point that they reject or at least resent GRRM writing that she pushed her friend down a well because a witch said she was more beautiful. Thedas has plenty of moustache twirlers but I'm not sure we've seen a functional sociopath yet.

 

Really there's nothing about Vivienne that I dislike any more than any other Orlesian courtier or noble. I just despise the lot of those. It's for this reason that she has no use for me as a companion. I would much prefer to have encountered her character as an NPC, maybe a quest giver. Solas is also manipulative and deceptive, but he brings a new perspective and new information, and Vivienne doesn't. It's good that she's available for those who want to get involved in the Game beyond the bare necessities of setting up an emperor, but I'm not interested enough in the subject matter to even try to interfere with her. Let the petty world of Orlesian politics deal with its own. She and the Bastiens of Thedas can eat each other alive for all I care.

[Rekkampum]

It's for this reason that she has no use for me as a companion.

You forgot her ridiculously OP'd Knight Enchanter skills that she can solo High Dragon fights with.

[Carmen_Willow]

Vivienne, taken at a young age to the Circle learns to play the Game in order to survive and gain a measure of freedom for herself.  She reminds me of Scarlett O'Hara standing in the field swearing that she'll never be hungry again and doing whatever it takes to guarantee her safety and that of her family.  Unlike Anders, driven to senseless rebellion against the tyranny of the Circle even before he joins with Justice, Vivienne figures out a way to game the system and move beyond it.  I don't begrudge her me first attitude, after all, she's had to fight for every bit of power and prestige she has. 

 

And to a little girl ripped from her family (no matter how much she discounts that loss), power and prestige equal safety. Many of the characters in this franchise are ripped from their families at an early age, and when a child has to choose between love and safety, they choose safety.  So Vivienne doesn't care about being loved. She will do whatever it takes, in her perception, to stay safe. Power, prestige and order are her tools for guaranteeing her safety. She's not nice, she's not kind, she can't afford to be.

[Sus3an]

I'm afraid I can't think of Vivienne as childish or petty. On the contrary, she despises whining, and looks down mostly on colleagues who can't see the big picture and choose shortsighted tantrums over looking for bigger solutions. She wants to improve on a system that she believes in but recognizes has to be better.  Her opinions are well thought out and articulately stated. She's not immune to posturing, emotional appeals and broad generalizations, but on the whole I think she's coming from a very sincere place, and that makes me respect her.

[DuskWanderer]

I'm afraid I can't think of Vivienne as childish or petty. On the contrary, she despises whining, and looks down mostly on colleagues who can't see the big picture and choose shortsighted tantrums over looking for bigger solutions. She wants to improve on a system that she believes in but recognizes has to be better.  Her opinions are well thought out and articulately stated. She's not immune to posturing, emotional appeals and broad generalizations, but on the whole I think she's coming from a very sincere place, and that makes me respect her.

 

So very true. I read the complaints of everyone about Vivienne, how she wants to keep mages down, but honestly, why should the mages be free. Look no further than the Hinterlands to see what they did with their freedom. Even the ones who didn't go ax-crazy joined a Tevinter cult willingly (the templars were at least controlled through the red lyrium and changed against their will).

 

If you want freedom, responsibility comes with it. Vivienne honestly was the most moral of any mage since Wynne, and both of those women were given great authority and could leave the Circle, pretty much at their leisure. 

[TheKomandorShepard]

So very true. I read the complaints of everyone about Vivienne, how she wants to keep mages down, but honestly, why should the mages be free. Look no further than the Hinterlands to see what they did with their freedom. Even the ones who didn't go ax-crazy joined a Tevinter cult willingly (the templars were at least controlled through the red lyrium and changed against their will).

 

If you want freedom, responsibility comes with it. Vivienne honestly was the most moral of any mage since Wynne, and both of those women were given great authority and could leave the Circle, pretty much at their leisure. 

 

You realize she is manipulative ,ruthless and power hungry and her "moral" standards applay for every mage expect her assuming that it were as you claim morals what makes her hypocrite not mention she sits up to the ears in pretty much extremely corrupted system.

 

If you compare her to Wynne why don't compare vaas to alistair as moral guardians.  

[Rekkampum]

 

You realize she is manipulative ,ruthless and power hungry and her "moral" standards applay for every mage expect her assuming that it were as you claim morals what makes her hypocrite not mention she sits up to the ears in pretty much extremely corrupted system.

 

If you compare her to Wynne why don't compare vaas to alistair as moral guardians.  

 

That's a very bad analogy, because Vaas is a very clearly defined - and disturbed - villain.

[TheKomandorShepard]

That's a very bad analogy, because Vaas is a very clearly defined - and disturbed - villain.

And that is why pretty much i used him as mocking example that comparing viv to wynne would be like comparing vaas to alistair especially on moral terms.

 

 

[Rekkampum]

And that is why pretty much i used him as mocking example that comparing viv to wynne would be like comparing vaas to alistair especially on moral terms.

 

 

 

No, it wouldn't. They're both Circle mages. Comparing their views regarding the Circle, etc., makes perfect sense.

[TheKomandorShepard]

No, it wouldn't. They're both Circle mages. Comparing their views regarding the Circle, etc., makes perfect sense.

Did you even read what i have said and to what i was refering to?  Not mention that it are minor similarities as well we could compare vaas and alistair on basis that both are men and humans they are in completely different in terms of personality so my statement fits not mention moral comparison that i discussed. 

[Addai]

You forgot her ridiculously OP'd Knight Enchanter skills that she can solo High Dragon fights with.

Well, my PC is an even more ridiculously overpowered Knight Enchanter so moot.

[HuldraDancer]

You forgot her ridiculously OP'd Knight Enchanter skills that she can solo High Dragon fights with.

 

You know I keep hearing about this so I take her on dragon fights and she's yet to do any of that OP Knight Enchanter jazz people keep talking about. Quite sad

[Rundy Bundles]

How can you not like her when she dresses like this. You like? Huh? Huh?!?!

screenshot by this person

 

Yah gotta admit, Viv gives an excellent troll grin. I mean, look at that. 

 

Anyway, in all seriousness, Vivienne quickly became one of my favourite companions (party mage and character-wise). Next to Cassandra, at least one of them will always be in my party, haha. When Viv was first announced, I was...cautiously optimistic about her character, but upon recruiting her, yeah, she was quickly liked. I don't think being ambitious or politically-minded makes her a particularly bad person, per se, since I don't interpret what she does (with power) as evil. I always saw her as more of a tough and iron-willed person than ruthless, hence Madame de Fer. Authoritarian, if you will (but authority is sexy.) I will agree that she is, in her own way, self-serving, like with when she becomes Divine, it says that despite mages having more freedom/responsibility/power, she holds most of it or something. Though, she doesn't strike me as the person to abuse it, for some reason.

[Addai]

You know I keep hearing about this so I take her on dragon fights and she's yet to do any of that OP Knight Enchanter jazz people keep talking about. Quite sad

The AI for her makes her act like a normal pew pew mage most of the time. You have to micromanage.

[Jaison1986]

If you are the KE of the team, then actually Solas is the best support mage to go with. His rift mage abilities weaken the Dragon and your spirit blade does much more damage.

[HuldraDancer]

The AI for her makes her act like a normal pew pew mage most of the time. You have to micromanage.

 

Well crud I'm terrible at that my attention span hardly allows that. ^^;

[leaguer of one]

 

You realize she is manipulative ,ruthless and power hungry and her "moral" standards applay for every mage expect her assuming that it were as you claim morals what makes her hypocrite not mention she sits up to the ears in pretty much extremely corrupted system.

 

If you compare her to Wynne why don't compare vaas to alistair as moral guardians.

Then you need to look at her ends over her means. She is willing to do what it takes to get the job done but ask yourself what is the  "job". Does she want to be divine for herself or to improve the systems she's in? She never seems as a power for powers sake type of person.

[daveliam]

The AI for her makes her act like a normal pew pew mage most of the time. You have to micromanage.

 

Interesting.  Not for me at all.  In fact, she's constantly in the thick of things for me and I haven't had to micromanage her at all, in any of playthroughs.  She's usually sitting with 1/3 - 1/2 health, but she's right in the melee.  Rarely does she pew pew from a distance for me. 

[Livi14]

Wynne? I listened to Wynne go on and on about the Circle this, the Circle that. She tries to get the Warden mage to go back to the Circle even though she doesn't do so herself. She and Vivienne have that hypocrite thing down perfectly, Vivienne is just more acidic about it.

I didn't agree with Wynne's views, but at least she didn't trivialize her fellow mages' issues - and she actually knew what the average mage has to deal with (and she has the sweet, grandmotherly thing going for her ). Vivienne on the other hand lives in a palace and wants to lecture everyone how great circles are.

[leaguer of one]

I didn't agree with Wynne's views, but at least she didn't trivialize her fellow mages' issues - and she actually knew what the average mage has to deal with (and she has the sweet, grandmotherly thing going for her ). Vivienne on the other hand lives in a palace and wants to lecture everyone how great circles are.

1. She did not start out living in a palace...She earned her way there. She started out as poor as any non noble mage.

2.Her issue is more when they mages rebelled not the fact they rebelled. She makes a point that doing so after the kirkwall incident is not smart at all...She has a point.

3.If you listen to Cole and her conversation, you'll see there's more to it when you here what she saw rebel mages do to rebel. And it makes those rebel mages look like dicks as bad as the templers.