128 réponses à ce sujet

[Sidney]

Do you have an issue wi the infinite potion spam from DAO? You just mash that button and insta-win. Hell, in DAO you never needed to go beyond auto attack to win. there was no strategy required in DAO unless you played with a ton of house rules. Bioware doesn't do complicated/ sophisticated combat in any of their games.

[Il Divo]

I loved playing Mages in Origins, but damn were they OP. Eventually it reached the point where the spells I would choose in combat had nothing to do with tactical effectiveness and simply which animation I felt like killing my enemies with. 

 

Of course, with abilities like Blood Wound and Fireball, enemy mages rarely had the chance to get a spell off. 

[Saphiron123]

Do you have an issue wi the infinite potion spam from DAO? You just mash that button and insta-win. Hell, in DAO you never needed to go beyond auto attack to win. there was no strategy required in DAO unless you played with a ton of house rules. Bioware doesn't do complicated/ sophisticated combat in any of their games.

You didn't play on hard, did you? Also potions were on a timer, it wasn't like diablo.

And all the potions int he world couldn't help you if you were caught in a crushing prison... which apparently mages worldwide forgot how to cast. Or Horror. or paralysis.

I wiped last night because, despite using a spirit healer for the first time ever, an emissary caught her with paralysis and we just got destroyed.

Anyway, you can drink potions faster in inquisition, and the mages still aren't interesting.

[In Exile]

I think you're missing the point. You HAD to have one of the mages who cast those spells and you always did that the first thing in combat. That's strategy. Try it on nightmare without those spells or targeting mages first. In DAi it's hmm mage, whatever...

That's like saying try nightmare without barrier in DAI. Even without mana clash I could obliterate mages. The only dangerous part about them was the random spell failure chance on nightmare.

[In Exile]

You didn't play on hard, did you? Also potions were on a timer, it wasn't like diablo.

And all the potions int he world couldn't help you if you were caught in a crushing prison... which apparently mages worldwide forgot how to cast. Or Horror. or paralysis.

I wiped last night because, despite using a spirit healer for the first time ever, an emissary caught her with paralysis and we just got destroyed.

Anyway, you can drink potions faster in inquisition, and the mages still aren't interesting.

None of those things would happen because Mana Clash. Or blood wound.

[Uccio]

I loved playing Mages in Origins, but damn were they OP. Eventually it reached the point where the spells I would choose in combat had nothing to do with tactical effectiveness and simply which animation I felt like killing my enemies with. 

 

Of course, with abilities like Blood Wound and Fireball, enemy mages rarely had the chance to get a spell off. 

 

 

That is what I loved about the DAO mages. They had something in common with BG2 mages. The way I see it, mages need to be the nukes of the battlefield. Even the lore demands it. Now? Just plain ridiculous.

[CronoDragoon]

That is what I loved about the DAO mages. They had something in common with BG2 mages. The way I see it, mages need to be the nukes of the battlefield. Even the lore demands it. Now? Just plain ridiculous.

 

I'm fine with mages being the nukes of the battlefield, but in Origins they were the everything. They had the best Crowd Control, they healed, they had the best (or near best) damage, and Arcane Warrior was the best tank.

 

There was no counter to a mage in Origins, as enemy mages did not have the opportunity to get Mana Clash off before you did.

[Rawgrim]

Do you have an issue wi the infinite potion spam from DAO? You just mash that button and insta-win. Hell, in DAO you never needed to go beyond auto attack to win. there was no strategy required in DAO unless you played with a ton of house rules. Bioware doesn't do complicated/ sophisticated combat in any of their games.

 

Do a playthrough for me. DA:O on normal, where you don't use anything but auto attack.

 

the BG games have a somewhat sophisticated combat. Bioware did that game...

[Rawgrim]

None of those things would happen because Mana Clash. Or blood wound.

 

And if the player didn't have Mana Clash or Blood Wound?

[Saphiron123]

I'm fine with mages being the nukes of the battlefield, but in Origins they were the everything. They had the best Crowd Control, they healed, they had the best (or near best) damage, and Arcane Warrior was the best tank.

 

There was no counter to a mage in Origins, as enemy mages did not have the opportunity to get Mana Clash off before you did.

If you don't use mana clash, they can wreck your party.

Yes the one spell is badly OP, but mages were powerful. And that makes sense, the templar order exists to keep them in check and keep those powerful beings from turning into abominations or ruling the land.... the mages in DAI don't need templars because they have less power then your average farmer.

Mages are supposed to be in a league of their own. Blood mages especially.

And they weren't just nukes, they were crowd control. look at the tiny enemy groups we face in DAI. In origins you could fight 30 men. Spells like sleep and mass paralysis kept you alive. And when a mage transformed like Uldrid, it was so bad they had the rite of annulment as a final solution.

Mages in DAI aren't really a threat. They've been nerfed to the point of irrelevance. Which is too bad, mage and templar battles could have been epic.
 

 

And if the player didn't have Mana Clash or Blood Wound?

 

This. Two overpowered spell mechanics don't mean mages weren't dangerous.

[CronoDragoon]

If you don't use mana clash, they can wreck your party.

 

It's possible that if Mana Clash didn't exist then Origins would have better game balance and thus be a more strategic affair. But it does, so Origins is not.

 

Even if Mana Clash didn't exist, though, the best counter to a mage is still a mage, because they have the best CC. If they were intent on preserving the lore, they should have just removed rogue and warrior and expanded the possible mage builds in a companion pool consisting entirely of mages.

[Il Divo]

And if the player didn't have Mana Clash or Blood Wound?

 

Don't forget Fireball. 

 

And, odds are they probably do, given that Shapeshifter is worthless. Which means that you're either a Blood Mage or an Arcane Warrior (also OP), if not both. Any game can be difficult if we ignore the IWIN buttons.

[Rawgrim]

Don't forget Fireball. 

 

And, odds are they probably do, given that Shapeshifter is worthless. Which means that you're either a Blood Mage or an Arcane Warrior (also OP), if not both. Any game can be difficult if we ignore the IWIN buttons.

 

I never used them, actually. I didn't think the game was difficult, though. But it did have a certain challenge.

[Auztin]

Variety or Quantity?Half of the spells did the same thing.I would not call that variety.

[Rizilliant]

What do you mean by Off CD? I'm not sure...
 

Edit: Nevermind, I think I get it. I played the game so much by that point that everything becomes easy for me, right? Crafting stuff, etc. The Item Dupe glitch allowed to make things even faster.

Off of cooldown.. While the ability is unable to be used, because it had a 24 second cooldown... I t hink most rogue abilities have around 8second cooldowns.. Mages in the 16-24-32 range... Warriors all over..

 

Yea, the dupes, and gold cheats make game s suck..Id never use an exploit, as it cheapens my personal experience.. I dont feel "rewarded" if i had to cheat my way to victory.. Guess it stems from my growing up an athlete?  Idk..

[Rizilliant]

Variety or Quantity?Half of the spells did the same thing.I would not call that variety.

Which ones did the same thing?  Cone of Cold, or Cone of fire? Walking Bomb, or Virulent Walking Bomb? Im not really sure which were the exact same spells in that game?  If you understood the game, every spell had a place..

 

Grease, Swarm(now a grenade) Miasma? Spell Wisp, Direct Heals/Heals over time/Group heal?  Regen/Group Regen? Fireball/Blizzard/Thunderstom?  Rockfist, Petrification? Haste(a real Haste) Weaken/sleep/ 4 runes, all of which had different effects? Elemental weakness, or aoe elemental weakness?

 

Im not seeing the "same spells" anywhere But i guess i havent gotten into Specializations..., But, saying theyre all the same, is the cool thing to say, since Inquisition released..

 

In Origins, you had mana management, and cooldowns to worry about.. Not an issue when you only have 8 available abilities, eh? Very simple.. Dumbed down, if you will.. I wonder how man poeple didnt play Origins, until they got it free with Inquisition, and hate by today's standard?

[In Exile]

And if the player didn't have Mana Clash or Blood Wound?

 

Then you an use fireball. Or chain lighting. Or one of a multitude of paralyze spells. Or Winter's Grasp followed by Arcane Bolt followed by whatever the single damage lightning spell was called. 

 

Enemies in DA:O were crazy squishy. Two mages with focused fire obliterate a single enemy mage - they're never an obstacle unless they're HP sponge bosses. 

 

Like I said - this is like not using barrier in DA:I and saying nightmare is hard. 

 

This. Two overpowered spell mechanics don't mean mages weren't dangerous.

 

Then the presence of barrier and guard spam doesn't neuter DA:I mages either. 

[Diegonius]

In Origins, mages (either yours or enemies) had spell variety. That meant two things: you could do a wide variety of things (crowd control, buff, debuff, AoE damage, focused damage, and any combination of the previous) and enemy mages could either welcome you with a fireball, a curse of mortality or a crushing prison.

You could use a spell like mana clash, which was overpowered, and that was bad. It made everything less exciting, and I consider that it was one of the game's mistakes.

But then we got DA II, where enemy mages only has basic attacks and exploding balls of energy. A catastrophe! But at least, you got dcent skill trees. Less spells, but a fair amount of them, still.
I see that they tried to solve this issue n Inquisition, but they didn't do it very well. Now they use elemental runes, barrier, "teleport" and basic attacks regardless of the enemies they are fighting. That makes all mages the same. The only thing that changes is the damage type. And in exchange, your mages get even less spells. Charming.
Plus, they are more resilient than warriors, which makes little sense to me.

Now enemies use different mechanics than our characters and that is something I personally can't see as a good idea.

[Rizilliant]

I LOATHE Guard, and Barrier... Cheap I WIN buttons.. Unfortunately necessary to advance the game.. I view this as no different than endless potion spam.. Its free health.. Mage Barrier sustained, sure.. Emptying your mana as a result per hit from spells.. Rock armor, self only, sustained.. Diminish a portion of the physical dmg, based on your SP...  These group, i win buttons suck imo.. Id rather go back to healing.. Atleast i was responsible for indivual lives, rather than everyone group so we all get a free health buff... Idk, thats just me.. I like tradition.. I just wish theyd made this a spinoff, as opposed to changing the formula, widely praised for years..  *shrug

[Saphiron123]

Then you an use fireball. Or chain lighting. Or one of a multitude of paralyze spells. Or Winter's Grasp followed by Arcane Bolt followed by whatever the single damage lightning spell was called. 

 

Enemies in DA:O were crazy squishy. Two mages with focused fire obliterate a single enemy mage - they're never an obstacle unless they're HP sponge bosses. 

 

Like I said - this is like not using barrier in DA:I and saying nightmare is hard. 

 

 

Then the presence of barrier and guard spam doesn't neuter DA:I mages either. 

Nah, DAI mages are neutered because they have like 12 spell options, few crowd control options, and are missing the majority of their old abilities. DAI mages are neutered because they don't feel powerful. they certainly don't seem like a danger that an order of templars has to remain vigilant over.

And not everybody takes mana clash or does blood magic, tons of options, lots of different spells... why play the same every time? It's fun to have spells like raise dead and sleep instead.

Sorry Exile, I agree with you on a vast many things, but mages now are a joke, and enemy mages aren't better having the same exact spell list for every single one versus the mages in earlier games with their own spell lists. They were individuals, and even if they were easy for you, each mage battle was just a little different.

Mages have been dumbed down, and an enemy mages aren't npcs anymore, they're just mobs, sort of like hyenas. One is the same as the next, with the same powers, and even the same floating book. Doesn't matter if it's elven or venetori or renegade wizards... all the same exact fight with zero variation.

DAI is not more fun for taking away the individual spells enemy mages once had. I know what they're going to cats without even seeing them, it was lazy enemy development. Same as I know every single heavy warrior whether a hurlock alpha or a human knight with an axe is going to use the exact same three attacks, high, low , and thre three random directions followed by full guard. They're just reskins of each other, same as the mages.

[Diegonius]

Mages have been dumbed down, and an enemy mages aren't npcs anymore, they're just mobs, sort of like hyenas. One is the same as the next, with the same powers, and even the same floating book. Doesn't matter if it's elven or venetori or renegade wizards... all the same exact fight with zero variation.

DAI is not more fun for taking away the individual spells enemy mages once had. I know what they're going to cats without even seeing them, it was lazy enemy development. Same as I know every single heavy warrior whether a hurlock alpha or a human knight with an axe is going to use the exact same three attacks, high, low , and thre three random directions followed by full guard. They're just reskins of each other, same as the mages.

 

We moved from "All maps are the same"  to "All enemies are the same". These guys are into reclycling.

[Auztin]

Which ones did the same thing? Cone of Cold, or Cone of fire? Walking Bomb, or Virulent Walking Bomb? Im not really sure which were the exact same spells in that game? If you understood the game, every spell had a place..

Grease, Swarm(now a grenade) Miasma? Spell Wisp, Direct Heals/Heals over time/Group heal? Regen/Group Regen? Fireball/Blizzard/Thunderstom? Rockfist, Petrification? Haste(a real Haste) Weaken/sleep/ 4 runes, all of which had different effects? Elemental weakness, or aoe elemental weakness?

Im not seeing the "same spells" anywhere But i guess i havent gotten into Specializations..., But, saying theyre all the same, is the cool thing to say, since Inquisition released..

In Origins, you had mana management, and cooldowns to worry about.. Not an issue when you only have 8 available abilities, eh? Very simple.. Dumbed down, if you will.. I wonder how man poeple didnt play Origins, until they got it free with Inquisition, and hate by today's standard?

Death Magic/Death Syphon, Mana Clash/Anti-Magic Burst, Mana Cleanse/Dispel to name a few.You also had useless abilities unless you are role playing your character which nobody really does anymore from all the complaints of Inquisition of it not being possible.To name one example:Crushing Prison vs Force field. Crushing does what force field does & causes damage over time.DA:O was like a MMO more than Inquisition.I guess Earth has Gravity is a "cool" thing to say, as well. I also don't like that accusation of not playing Dragon Age Origins unless I got it for free when I payed full price for back in 09 on Xbox 360 then later bought it for PS3.

[Saphiron123]

Death Magic/Death Syphon, Mana Clash/Anti-Magic Burst, Mana Cleanse/Dispel to name a few.You also had useless abilities unless you are role playing your character which nobody really does anymore from all the complaints of Inquisition of it not being possible.To name one example:Crushing Prison vs Force field. Crushing does what force field does & causes damage over time.DA:O was like a MMO more than Inquisition.I guess Earth has Gravity is a "cool" thing to say, as well. I also don't like that accusation of not playing Dragon Age Origins unless I got it for free when I payed full price for back in 09 on Xbox 360 then later bought it for PS3.

Mana clash and anti-magic burst definitely do not do the same thing. Neither does mana cleanse or dispel. Close in some cases but you also only got few trees per character so it honestly didn't matter. And those skills are in the minority.

As for calling DAO an MMO, I don't see how. It was cinematic, story based, with a heavy emphasis on unique character dialogue and events in the vast majority of the quests. That's the exact opposite of an MMO to me.

DAI is 90% fetch quests like collect 10 bear claws or deliver this to here, no dialogue, and certainly no unique companion dialogue to make those quests repayable.

And you know, of the Mage spells available in DAO, at least half of them were neat and served a unique purpose. You even had spell combos like storm of the century.

And as for crushing prison versus force field... Force field is a completely different concept, it removed a target from a fight entirely for almost a minute, you couldn't damage and nobody could interact with them in any way, crushing prison was a temporary interrupt with damage that was good for interrupting mages etc.

DAO was a lot different on PC though too, so that might affect the MMO feeling of it.

[sleeping heart]

I'm fine with mages being the nukes of the battlefield, but in Origins they were the everything. They had the best Crowd Control, they healed, they had the best (or near best) damage, and Arcane Warrior was the best tank.

 

There was no counter to a mage in Origins, as enemy mages did not have the opportunity to get Mana Clash off before you did.

You could always just not use Mana Clash...... I never do.

[Rizilliant]

Death Magic/Death Syphon, Mana Clash/Anti-Magic Burst, Mana Cleanse/Dispel to name a few.You also had useless abilities unless you are role playing your character which nobody really does anymore from all the complaints of Inquisition of it not being possible.To name one example:Crushing Prison vs Force field. Crushing does what force field does & causes damage over time.DA:O was like a MMO more than Inquisition.I guess Earth has Gravity is a "cool" thing to say, as well. I also don't like that accusation of not playing Dragon Age Origins unless I got it for free when I payed full price for back in 09 on Xbox 360 then later bought it for PS3.

 Have your read the descriptions, or even used these spells? They may have similaritIES, but are not, "the same".. The poster below your post pointed out exactly how, i think weve made the point.. We not listed each and every spell between us all, and none are "the same".. Force field is an imobilize, with indestructable effect.. No actions taken, nor dmg taken... Crushing prison, and a paralyze, with DoT, that can add further dmg from another spell.. Death magic, and death syphon steal back health, vs mana.. Two different things..Mana clash nullifies enemy mana, and does dmg for how much mana was removed.. Dispel, removes buffs.. 

 

Again buddy, nothing here is the same...

 

I moved the final statment of my original post to the final line, and did not direct it at you specifically.. It was a general question, and i do wonder how many people played when they got inquisitiion, comparing it to todays standards.. When did you get it? Do you have achievements unlocked on your account from 2009-2010?  

 

PS: i never once, took mana clash... I found it far too situational.. Now in My Nightmare playthroughs, i may give it a shot.. I think my very 1st time playign it, i took it, btut never used it, or was very disappointed..

 

I started with Origins on PS3, and was back and forth with liking it or not.. SO i bought the deluxe ed for PC, and that is where i found its true potential.. Origins played on consoles then, like Inquisition plays on PC now!