128 réponses à ce sujet

[Teddie Sage]

Guard and Barrier... cheap win button? Okay, that's ridiculous...

[Diegonius]

I liked barriers (and as someone who has been Spirit healer in the previous games, you can bet I was skeptical about them at first).
I think that they demand a more tactical approach towards the combat than "mass heal", for instance, as they require you to decide whether to gather your group, cast it on your tank (who is sometimes far from your mages) or cast it on your mages.
Guard was not bad, but I think it's mostly designed to be used out of tactical camera (at least if you use shield wall).

[10K]

Cast barrier and button mash. that is how you deal with enemy mages in Inquisition.

That's pretty much sums up how to deal with all enemies in Inquisition LOL!!

[10K]

Guard and Barrier... cheap win button? Okay, that's ridiculous...

Ridiculous? Okay maybe for barrier, but not guard. Craft armor for your entire party that generates guard after every hit and you'll see how it can be considered a win button. Nightmare is a walk in the park when every teammate now have the ability to generate guard. 

[Teddie Sage]

Ridiculous? Okay maybe for barrier, but not guard. Craft armor for your entire party that generates guard after every hit and you'll see how it can be considered a win button. Nightmare is a walk in the park when every teammate now have the ability to generate guard. 

That's not pushing the win button, that's winning the game or at least thinking smarter than the game designers. Sadly, we can already tell they will nerf this down in a few patches. Also, guard depletes pretty fast in Nightmare.

[10K]

That's not pushing the win button, that's winning the game or at least thinking smarter than the game designers. Sadly, we can already tell they will nerf this down in a few patches. Also, guard depletes pretty fast in Nightmare.

How is that not the equivalent to pushing the win button? It works, no matter what. It's unstoppable. It's so OP you'll for get about even using the barrier skill altogether.   

[Teddie Sage]

How is that not the equivalent to pushing the win button? It works, no matter what. It's unstoppable. It's so OP you'll for get about even using the barrier skill altogether.   

Have you finished the game on Nightmare? Have you used the Friendly Fire option? Come talk to me once you do that.

[Elhanan]

I play with all Floating Text deactivated, so I am unable to say with certainty what spells are cast. What I do know after 540+ hrs of gameplay on Nightmare is that ignoring opposing casters is a good way for the party to receive injury and death, and I for one consider Mages a high priority target as well as Archers.

This is pretty much the way I have played in the previous games, too.

As for variety in spells, while it was great to have longer quickbars for more versatility, until this is done here; having Spell upgrades seems to work for now. If one does not plan on utilizing said spell much, then skip the upgrade, or if the upgrade makes the spell more effective, then grab it. Opposing casters seem to work the same way, as spells that were shrugged away earlier suddenly have punch. And I do not have much experience with extended battles with them, as I do consider them a priority for removal.

[10K]

Have you finished the game on Nightmare? Have you used the Friendly Fire option? Come talk to me once you do that.

Actually I have, while using this tactic in fact.

[Teddie Sage]

Actually I have, while using this tactic in fact.

Then ask BioWare for a higher difficulty. Nothing else I can do for you, my friend.

[Wulfram]

The fact that the DA:O system was deeply flawed in some ways (like Mana Clash) shouldn't blind us to the parts which were good.

It shouldn't be about a competition to prove that one game is better than another. But about trying to work out how the next game can be better than both.

[Draining Dragon]

Mages in Origins were high priority targets that could devastate your team if you didn't take them out first.

Now they're jokes.

I suspect that those who think mages were weak in Origins are the same people who think Nightmare mode in Origins was a snoozefest.

[Ink is my sin]

Mages in both DA:O and DA2 were more challenging than DA:I mages. Factor in AI also; DA:I mages were complete idiots.

[PhroXenGold]

Interestingly, DA2 seemed to get a nice balance. Mechanically, they're much the same as DA:I's mages, with unique spells of their own rather than using the ones the player has access to. But they were every bit as much a threat as in Origins, if not more so. You did not let DA2's mages get off their big spells if you could do anything about it.

[Ink is my sin]

Interestingly, DA2 seemed to get a nice balance. Mechanically, they're much the same as DA:I's mages, with unique spells of their own rather than using the ones the player has access to. But they were every bit as much a threat as in Origins, if not more so. You did not let DA2's mages get off their big spells if you could do anything about it.

Exactly, those blood mages in DA2 were a pain!!

[RVallant]

I remember Mana Clash. Beyond that, I remember fireball. Then I remember all enemy mages being dead.

Enemy mages had the same spells we did in DAO but at least they were threatening in DAI.

 

Mana Clash ftw.

 

But it was also an excuse to bring along Dog and his 'tear throat out' move, which was awesome vs a mage.

 

Origins mages were lethal. In Inquisition they're just a nuisance and that's it.

[Sidney]

Exactly, those blood mages in DA2 were a pain!!

DA2 Mages were marginally harder because you lacked mana clash. Instead you used the overpowered Assasinate and/or Vendetta to explode them.

Mages in DAI are "harder" due to the fact that you lack the insta-kill cheese from the first two games. That alone makes them more of a threat because they live longer to cast spells.

[In Exile]

Nah, DAI mages are neutered because they have like 12 spell options, few crowd control options, and are missing the majority of their old abilities. DAI mages are neutered because they don't feel powerful. they certainly don't seem like a danger that an order of templars has to remain vigilant over.

And not everybody takes mana clash or does blood magic, tons of options, lots of different spells... why play the same every time? It's fun to have spells like raise dead and sleep instead.

Sorry Exile, I agree with you on a vast many things, but mages now are a joke, and enemy mages aren't better having the same exact spell list for every single one versus the mages in earlier games with their own spell lists. They were individuals, and even if they were easy for you, each mage battle was just a little different.

Mages have been dumbed down, and an enemy mages aren't npcs anymore, they're just mobs, sort of like hyenas. One is the same as the next, with the same powers, and even the same floating book. Doesn't matter if it's elven or venetori or renegade wizards... all the same exact fight with zero variation.

DAI is not more fun for taking away the individual spells enemy mages once had. I know what they're going to cats without even seeing them, it was lazy enemy development. Same as I know every single heavy warrior whether a hurlock alpha or a human knight with an axe is going to use the exact same three attacks, high, low , and thre three random directions followed by full guard. They're just reskins of each other, same as the mages.

Wait I'm confused. Are we talking about the PC mages or the NPC mages? We have less spells of less variety in DAI for our own mages. I wouldn't say we have less useful spells, since most spells in DAO were not really useful comparatively, but we do have less of them.

I find mages in DAI much harder to deal with on nightmare; short of dispelling their AOEs, which they use frequently, there isn't an effective way of dealing with them I find. Whereas in DAO they were very easy to obliterate. Perhaps that colours my impression.

While enemies do have less variety, I'm not sure reskin is the right complaint. After all in DAO enemies were a reskin of the PC.

[Tensai]

I remember Mana Clash. Beyond that, I remember fireball. Then I remember all enemy mages being dead.

Enemy mages had the same spells we did in DAO but at least they were threatening in DAI.

 

Threatening mages in DAI? Is there an easteregg i have yet to find? The only way things get threatening in DAI is by raising the difficulty, resulting in enemies with, well let's say overpropotional dps and health. Enemies in DAI never felt dangerous because of their abilities. That was different in DA:O from my point of view.

[Diegonius]

Interestingly, DA2 seemed to get a nice balance. Mechanically, they're much the same as DA:I's mages, with unique spells of their own rather than using the ones the player has access to. But they were every bit as much a threat as in Origins, if not more so. You did not let DA2's mages get off their big spells if you could do anything about it.

 

DA 2 mages were endless pools of health with only one powerful attack that took forever to load. Actually, I almost prefer the current elemental runes, which can be avoided at the cost of losing extra time moving. A matter of personal tastes, I guess.
But again, I think it is not a problem of spell design, but a lack of spell variety for enemies. Enemies having "signature spells" is a good idea, unless you just give them a 3-spell array. If they could use winter grasp, flashfire or other spells I have, they could be much more challenging (I never saw a mage panicking, freezing or somehow diabling my characters).

 

Mages were easy to kill in Origins? Yes. But so were your mages, generally.
Are mages hard to kill now? Sure, but just because of the enormous amount of helth they have, not because they control "the powerful winds of magic". Think of Baldur's gate wizards, which could obliterate your plans with a single "confussion" spell. That was power.

[In Exile]

DA 2 mages were endless pools of health with only one powerful attack that took forever to load. Actually, I almost prefer the current elemental runes, which can be avoided at the cost of losing extra time moving. A matter of personal tastes, I guess.
But again, I think it is not a problem of spell design, but a lack of spell variety for enemies. Enemies having "signature spells" is a good idea, unless you just give them a 3-spell array. If they could use winter grasp, flashfire or other spells I have, they could be much more challenging (I never saw a mage panicking, freezing or somehow diabling my characters).

Mages were easy to kill in Origins? Yes. But so were your mages, generally.
Are mages hard to kill now? Sure, but just because of the enormous amount of helth they have, not because they control "the powerful winds of magic". Think of Baldur's gate wizards, which could obliterate your plans with a single "confussion" spell. That was power.

My mages were impossible to kill in DAO even without specialisation.

[Lumix19]

I think it's just because magic itself in Origins was very strong and (in my experience) Mages were quite a bit stronger then the other classes. Especially since NPCs got the same spells you did. I actually quite like the Mages of Inquisition since they seem moderately balanced, they don't instantly kill you but they can do some considerable damage to the party if left alone. The rogues however are only slightly less annoying in Inquistion as they were in DA2.

Edit: Also what's wrong with the Spellbinder tomes? Am I the only one who likes them?

[Diegonius]

I think it's just because magic itself in Origins was very strong and (in my experience) Mages were quite a bit stronger then the other classes. Especially since NPCs got the same spells you did. I actually quite like the Mages of Inquisition since they seem moderately balanced, they don't instantly kill you but they can do some considerable damage to the party if left alone. The rogues however are only slightly less annoying in Inquistion as they were in DA2.

Edit: Also what's wrong with the Spellbinder tomes? Am I the only one who likes them?

Mages were truly powerful in Origins, indeed. Not enough to make them incredibly overpowered, in my opinion, but yes, you have a point. Technically, them having less life than rouges and warriors made them easier to kill unless you had plenty of potions and healing spells (which you had, yeah, and I thin that was part of the problem). But even if mages were more powerful, enemy mages were also like that, making it more even.

Now, enemy mages are normal enemies with a ranged elemental attack. They can't do anything special (except for knocking you down, like any warrior).

I can't agree on what you said about rougues, because in DA II they could kill my mages or rouges in a single blow, and now, they can't (even without barrier). Edit: I must say I think backstabs are better as they are now.

 

P.S: I liked spellbinder tomes, actually. They give mages a chance to avoid melee for a couple of seconds, which has a great potential. But since they don't many spells, I think it made fight longer without making it more difficult. Things would have been different if they coul cast fireball or glyph of paralysis after "teleporting".

[Lumix19]

Mages were truly powerful in Origins, indeed. Not enough to make them incredibly overpowered, in my opinion, but yes, you have a point. Technically, them having less life than rouges and warriors made them easier to kill unless you had plenty of potions and healing spells (which you had, yeah, and I thin that was part of the problem). But even if mages were more powerful, enemy mages were also like that, making it more even.
Now, enemy mages are normal enemies with a ranged elemental attack. They can't do anything special (except for knocking you down, like any warrior).
I can't agree on what you said about rougues, because in DA II they could kill my mages or rouges in a single blow, and now, they can't (even without barrier). Edit: I must say I think backstabs are better as they are now.

P.S: I liked spellbinder tomes, actually. They give mages a chance to avoid melee for a couple of seconds, which has a great potential. But since they don't many spells, I think it made fight longer without making it more difficult. Things would have been different if they coul cast fireball or glyph of paralysis after "teleporting".

True though they can cast barrier on allies although that really isn't that amazing. I must agree that they waste their teleportation abilities. They don't use them enough and when they do they don't use them all that intelligently.