128 réponses à ce sujet

[Lumix19]

Qunari have technology and magic while powerful can be resisted ? There are enchantments and potions that are extremely effective against magic and against mages. Qunari are known for their mastery of alchemy so I am sure they would figure something out. 
 
Pure mages are glass cannons. Powerful but brittle. That is why in stories you have mages dying easily, because the wear robes and most of them don't keep up a steady Rock Armor or Arcane Shield all the time so it is easy to gut them.
 
Rawgrim makes a good point and that is mages are no longer the glass cannons that they are, which is a shame.

I don't think Qunari can create enchantments, who would do it? They don't have tranquil or dwarves and the magic the Saarebas use is wild and untrained. Perhaps they use potions but I think that's a stretch. Bull certainly never mentions it. Plus I think shoving mages into the category of glass cannons is too simple. If magic can conjure a fireball how come it can't protect you from a blade? Heck the mage codex entry in Inquisition talks about protection magic which is just as good as armor. I think enemy mages are ok as they are. They do respectable damage whilst granting barriers to their allies and they have reasonable survivability.

[Alice Phoenix]

How is that not the equivalent to pushing the win button? It works, no matter what. It's unstoppable. It's so OP you'll for get about even using the barrier skill altogether.   

DA:O had win buttons too. There were things that made that game ridiculously easy even on nightmare like Arcane Warrior. You could also chug pots endlessly more or less and use the heal spell every few seconds. And the blood magic spell that was an AoE, hard CC, massive DoT .. that's pretty busted and made most encounters very easy. However enemy mages were super op as well. If you don't want auto win you could just try playing without using them? I also disagree they are win no matter what. Maybe the guard on-hit is, but it takes a while to unlock masterworks. Before that I tried nightmare with friendly fire and it was really hard even with barrier. If you want it harder you could try playing it without. I don't think "op stuff" is a problem with just DA:I. Also, archers in DA:Awakening anyone? That was op.

 

Death Magic/Death Syphon, Mana Clash/Anti-Magic Burst, Mana Cleanse/Dispel to name a few.You also had useless abilities unless you are role playing your character which nobody really does anymore from all the complaints of Inquisition of it not being possible.To name one example:Crushing Prison vs Force field. Crushing does what force field does & causes damage over time.DA:O was like a MMO more than Inquisition.I guess Earth has Gravity is a "cool" thing to say, as well. I also don't like that accusation of not playing Dragon Age Origins unless I got it for free when I payed full price for back in 09 on Xbox 360 then later bought it for PS3.

They weren't useless spells, but they were outclassed by other things. People say Mana Clash is op, and I agree. It can one shot most mages, even some mage bosses. However to get that spell you have to get three sub-par spells since it's the last in the tree. So if you rush to get it... you'll be more or less useless against non-mages. However yeah later in the game it is op once you get it. Also Force Field is very different from crushing prison. I did a nightmare playthrough and not having barrier would make the game a lot harder, even if I had crushing prison. Crushing prison you can only use on enemies, it also doesn't work on high ranking enemies. Barrier can be used to save allies. I would use a tank to taunt the mobs, then my mages would do the tempest combo and have a lightning/blizzard storm, then I barrier the tank so they don't die. My favorite use though is when the enemy mage uses Crushing prison on someone. They are like 100% dead at that point... unless I have barrier. Barrier interacts with crushing prison so if I use it on my ally who was crushing prison'd, they are broken out of it and knock down all nearby enemies. It was a life saver, also can be used if your tank has a ton of aggro and can't heal fast enough.

 

I remember the mages in the warehouse in dao to be challenging and their leaders had names. Its another flaw in dai. They were reduced to diablo encounters

I know that one! That was like one of the hardest encounters in the game for me. I had to figure out how to take out 3 mages at once who were spread out. It was really challenging. I sort of agree with that point. DA:O encounters (at least from memory..) had more flavor. Like at the beginning in the wilds you encounter that emissary who sees you then runs across the bridge to lure you into all the traps. Oh yeah...are there no more traps in DA:I? :<

 

And even though mages were op, rogues and tanks DID have very important roles as well. No matter how op ur mage was, rogues had higher single target dps especially late game. Even though arcane warriors were op, they killed very slowly. Tanks also can pull aggro which no one else can. And rogues can unlock all the chests and doors, which is very important. And scattershot was very useful to stun enemies. And arrow of slaying was good to initiate fights, by one shotting their mages. Also rogues took out traps, or placed their own, or could stealth to scout out an area. Mages had massive AoE spells and CC and heals. They felt very powerful as well which worked in lore. I am a bit disappionted by the lack of spells and the lack of strength of mages in DA:I. DA:O had a lot of interesting spells. I still remember when the enemy used curse of mortality on me, I'd go "oh sh...* because I can't heal anymore.

[luism]

Button mash? You're playing the game wrong. I'm sure you keep dying because you're not careful or because you don't equip the right equipment on your characters. Button mash only works on casual mode, the higher difficulties require at least some thinking and good tanks to keep you alive.

I button mashed through nightmare I can post video to prove it.

[Saphiron123]

If that were truly the case then Tevinter should rule the entire world not get stuck fighting the Qunari who don't even really have mages.

Dude, did you play the earlier games? Qunari HAVE mages, oh they hate magic, so much they torture their mages and sew heir mouths shut. but they have them, and those guys are monsterously powerful. Or they were, based on DAi the next time we see them they'll probably be loved an accepted members of qunari society and only cast barrier and fire mine, instead of burning heir enemies alive. All of Qunari fears and hates their mages, because they're powerful (I bet at one time they ruled Qunari lands as well).

And Mages DID rule the world, that's EXACTLY what happened. Mages ruled everything, the divine march happened, and now mages are strictly controlled in most of the world to prevent them from ever seizing power again. Mages are like WMDs, and the reason Tavinter doesn't rule again is every nation in the world is keeping an eye on them, the chantry even has templars in tavinter to prevent that exact thing from happening.

Mages are supposed to be overpowered and dangerous, that's the whole reason the templars and the circles exist. If they were the weaklings they are in DAI, none of that would matter because they wouldn't have to be controlled. And then you add the fact that an out of control mage turns into an even more powerful abomination, and they're one of the most dangerous things in the world.

The only reason Tavinter doesn't rule, is they're the last remnants of an empire that did. And I'm sure they'd love to rule again, and probably will someday.

[Saphiron123]

DA:O had win buttons too. There were things that made that game ridiculously easy even on nightmare like Arcane Warrior. You could also chug pots endlessly more or less and use the heal spell every few seconds. And the blood magic spell that was an AoE, hard CC, massive DoT .. that's pretty busted and made most encounters very easy. However enemy mages were super op as well. If you don't want auto win you could just try playing without using them? I also disagree they are win no matter what. Maybe the guard on-hit is, but it takes a while to unlock masterworks. Before that I tried nightmare with friendly fire and it was really hard even with barrier. If you want it harder you could try playing it without. I don't think "op stuff" is a problem with just DA:I. Also, archers in DA:Awakening anyone? That was op.

 

They weren't useless spells, but they were outclassed by other things. People say Mana Clash is op, and I agree. It can one shot most mages, even some mage bosses. However to get that spell you have to get three sub-par spells since it's the last in the tree. So if you rush to get it... you'll be more or less useless against non-mages. However yeah later in the game it is op once you get it. Also Force Field is very different from crushing prison. I did a nightmare playthrough and not having barrier would make the game a lot harder, even if I had crushing prison. Crushing prison you can only use on enemies, it also doesn't work on high ranking enemies. Barrier can be used to save allies. I would use a tank to taunt the mobs, then my mages would do the tempest combo and have a lightning/blizzard storm, then I barrier the tank so they don't die. My favorite use though is when the enemy mage uses Crushing prison on someone. They are like 100% dead at that point... unless I have barrier. Barrier interacts with crushing prison so if I use it on my ally who was crushing prison'd, they are broken out of it and knock down all nearby enemies. It was a life saver, also can be used if your tank has a ton of aggro and can't heal fast enough.

 

I know that one! That was like one of the hardest encounters in the game for me. I had to figure out how to take out 3 mages at once who were spread out. It was really challenging. I sort of agree with that point. DA:O encounters (at least from memory..) had more flavor. Like at the beginning in the wilds you encounter that emissary who sees you then runs across the bridge to lure you into all the traps. Oh yeah...are there no more traps in DA:I? :<

 

And even though mages were op, rogues and tanks DID have very important roles as well. No matter how op ur mage was, rogues had higher single target dps especially late game. Even though arcane warriors were op, they killed very slowly. Tanks also can pull aggro which no one else can. And rogues can unlock all the chests and doors, which is very important. And scattershot was very useful to stun enemies. And arrow of slaying was good to initiate fights, by one shotting their mages. Also rogues took out traps, or placed their own, or could stealth to scout out an area. Mages had massive AoE spells and CC and heals. They felt very powerful as well which worked in lore. I am a bit disappionted by the lack of spells and the lack of strength of mages in DA:I. DA:O had a lot of interesting spells. I still remember when the enemy used curse of mortality on me, I'd go "oh sh...* because I can't heal anymore.

Yeah, curse of mortality was a damn annoying spell. And one of the BEST uses for templar abilities on your side, too. We have templars, but they have no reason to cancel spell effects because there aren't any. It's just damage, occasionally freeze. Now they just do barrier damage and combo that ability with wrath of heaven for an instant win.

Huge step backwards.

Spell combos were great too. The crushing prison one is an excellent example of thinking on your feet and turning a fight around.

[Saphiron123]

I don't think Qunari can create enchantments, who would do it? They don't have tranquil or dwarves and the magic the Saarebas use is wild and untrained. Perhaps they use potions but I think that's a stretch. Bull certainly never mentions it. Plus I think shoving mages into the category of glass cannons is too simple. If magic can conjure a fireball how come it can't protect you from a blade? Heck the mage codex entry in Inquisition talks about protection magic which is just as good as armor. I think enemy mages are ok as they are. They do respectable damage whilst granting barriers to their allies and they have reasonable survivability.

But they have no spells anymore. In origins two different mages had two different spell sets. On had a cone of fire, one would take one of your members out of a fight with horror, another would use chain lighting and hit everyone, another had all three instead of other things.

The big issue is these mages, for every group, are just cut and paste with different clothes. They're not unique, they look the same, they attack the same, there's nothing tactical or different about them.

And those stupid mines are all they get. Mages now are a joke, they're basically mobs like wolves or bears with barriers and attacks you can just walk in between.

The problem is they were done WAY better in DAO and DA2. Now they're just boring.

[Diegonius]

Magic should be overpowered. It is why they have Mage's Circles etc.

 

I am sorry, but I must disagree. Overpowered magic would lead to less exciting combats, in my opinion (why would I include a warrior or a rogue in my party if a mage is better?).

 

Magic must be powerful, indeed. But mages shouldn't. As some of us pointed out before, mages should be fragile in order to encourage players to try all classes and change the composition of their party, but in exchange they should have truly mighty spells.

But that's exactly the opposite they did in DA:I, isn't it? (Origins wasn't perfect either, I admit it, but much closer to perfection than Inquisition )

 

No spell (or attack, or skill) should be able to instant-kill a boss, or make the fight one-sided, because we all love those loooong epic combats that makes us wish we had mor potions, more mana and more health points (and that long fights shouldn't necessarily require enemies to have over 20k HP, but a decent array of skills and a good AI).

[Teddie Sage]

I button mashed through nightmare I can post video to prove it.

Again, that's BS if you don't equip yourself with the right equipment and don't allocate the right stats on your characters.

[Diegonius]

Again, that's BS if you don't equip yourself with the right equipment and don't allocate the right stats on your characters.

I think it's totally possible, at least without friendly fire on. (Even more believable since enemies have a level cap but you don't).

But anyway, that's not the topic we're discussing. Give enemy mages more spells, Bioware!

[luism]

Again, that's BS if you don't equip yourself with the right equipment and don't allocate the right stats on your characters.

Teddie, I was on a speed run, I didn't craft , only used dropped items. Had nothing really special. I can log into that toon and post a stream. I had nothing special. Finished the game at level 16 button mashing all the way to cornyphiius.

[Teddie Sage]

Teddie, I was on a speed run, I didn't craft , only used dropped items. Had nothing really special. I can log into that toon and post a stream. I had nothing special. Finished the game at level 16 button mashing all the way to cornyphiius

If you beat all the sidequests without crafting and just by button mashing though, I won't believe you at all.

[Saphiron123]

I am sorry, but I must disagree. Overpowered magic would lead to less exciting combats, in my opinion (why would I include a warrior or a rogue in my party if a mage is better?).

 

Magic must be powerful, indeed. But mages shouldn't. As some of us pointed out before, mages should be fragile in order to encourage players to try all classes and change the composition of their party, but in exchange they should have truly mighty spells.

But that's exactly the opposite they did in DA:I, isn't it? (Origins wasn't perfect either, I admit it, but much closer to perfection than Inquisition )

 

No spell (or attack, or skill) should be able to instant-kill a boss, or make the fight one-sided, because we all love those loooong epic combats that makes us wish we had mor potions, more mana and more health points (and that long fights shouldn't necessarily require enemies to have over 20k HP, but a decent array of skills and a good AI).

No it should be balanced, but mages are still considered one of the greatest threats in the world, and their versatility and power should reflect that. Instant kills? No. When one is on the field though, it should demand your attention more then some basic archer.

Otherwise the whole chantry/tempalr thing is just dumb. They had it right before, and it should be balanced not only so the player has access to mages with that kind of tactical field controlling power, but enemies too.

[Saphiron123]

Lol, just finished origins and DA2... My latest playthrough of inquisition just makes the enemy mages in DAI seem so powerless and boring in comparison.

They need to bring back mages that can actually hurt the party. Most archers are more dangerous in DAI.

[Elhanan]

Lol, just finished origins and DA2... My latest playthrough of inquisition just makes the enemy mages in DAI seem so powerless and boring in comparison.

They need to bring back mages that can actually hurt the party. Most archers are more dangerous in DAI.

Agreed that archers are now more deadly, but Mages can seemingly be instrumental in combos used again the party, if not encountered alone. And while not all are of Master ranks, there are enough powerful casters around for me to consider Mages a priority in my game at least.

[Draining Dragon]

I remember Mana Clash. Beyond that, I remember fireball. Then I remember all enemy mages being dead.
Enemy mages had the same spells we did in DAO but at least they were threatening in DAI.

You switched DAO and DAI around there.

[Saphiron123]

Yeah mages aren't threatening in DAI. They have more health, but do next to no damage. They certainly aren't heavy hitters anymore... Makes Templars kind of pointless.

[Aimi]

You switched DAO and DAI around there.

no I'm pretty sure Mana Clash was a DA:O thing

[Sifr]

I miss spell-combos like Storm of the Century and casting Inferno on top of it in DAO, or Firestorm and Tempest in DA2.

 

I suppose that with how mages keep being nerfed, it does seem more realistic that the Templars have been able to control them for so long in the Circle, as well as be able to almost stomp out the Rebellion in under a year?

 

Just kinda makes it less interesting to play (even though they are still fun), as we rarely get any uber-level spells anymore?

[Saphiron123]

I miss spell-combos like Storm of the Century and casting Inferno on top of it in DAO, or Firestorm and Tempest in DA2.

 

I suppose that with how mages keep being nerfed, it does seem more realistic that the Templars have been able to control them for so long in the Circle, as well as be able to almost stomp out the Rebellion in under a year?

 

Just kinda makes it less interesting to play (even though they are still fun), as we rarely get any uber-level spells anymore?

Yeah I also loved spell combinations, raise dead with spell might would have been so great in DAI. The necro summon is less interesting.

[Diegonius]

No it should be balanced, but mages are still considered one of the greatest threats in the world, and their versatility and power should reflect that. Instant kills? No. When one is on the field though, it should demand your attention more then some basic archer.

Otherwise the whole chantry/tempalr thing is just dumb. They had it right before, and it should be balanced not only so the player has access to mages with that kind of tactical field controlling power, but enemies too.

 

I'm not sure whether we share the same opinion or not

[Vit246]

I don't know about mages in DA:I being "easy", but I'll tell you this: They are tedious as hell.

Far too many health points to deal with for a mage. Constant spamming of multiple trap glyphs. And when you get too close to them or you're close to killing them, they frakking teleport. I hate the teleport. I don't care how you spin it, its a teleport and they shouldn't exist.

[Saphiron123]

I don't know about mages in DA:I being "easy", but I'll tell you this: They are tedious as hell.

Far too many health points to deal with for a mage. Constant spamming of multiple trap glyphs. And when you get too close to them or you're close to killing them, they frakking teleport. I hate the teleport. I don't care how you spin it, its a teleport and they shouldn't exist.

This. A thousand times this. Fighting mages in DAI isn't fun, or interesting. They're no more exciting then fighting a wolf or a bear.

They have standard attacks that just happen to be magical in appearance.

 

 

I'm not sure whether we share the same opinion or not

I think for the story to make sense mages HAVE to be dangerous, but the player has mages and so does the enemy factions, so it evens out. If magic sin't powerful though, it's just sort of boring... I mean it's MAGIC, by definition it shouldn't suck.

[In Exile]

Agreed that archers are now more deadly, but Mages can seemingly be instrumental in combos used again the party, if not encountered alone. And while not all are of Master ranks, there are enough powerful casters around for me to consider Mages a priority in my game at least.

I find archers to be a joke. I don't get why people find mages to be weak. To me their AOE cone - if I accidentally step on it - is the only thing that can damage my champion or KE.

[Saphiron123]

I find archers to be a joke. I don't get why people find mages to be weak. To me their AOE cone - if I accidentally step on it - is the only thing that can damage my champion or KE.

Wouldn't you prefer a varied and dangerous list of mage powers though to make fighting them more exciting, as opposed to exactly the same for every faction you face?

The same is true of big warriors etc, 3 swings to build guard, doesn't matter if it's an elf or a hurlock alpha they're all exactly the same... copy and pasted with a slightly different look.

There was much more avriety in previous games, and it's doubly disappointing for the mages.

[Elhanan]

I find archers to be a joke. I don't get why people find mages to be weak. To me their AOE cone - if I accidentally step on it - is the only thing that can damage my champion or KE.

There is one specific location in the game that seems to drop one of the party quickly, and a sniper is the reason. However, there are several archers, Mages and Warriors there, so given the numbers, perhaps it is simply based on my own choice of target priorities.