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[The Hierophant]

Lol i thought the same thing.

[Jorji Costava]

@Knights of Colour:

You raise a lot of interesting points; I won't have space to address them all here. In fact I won't be posting on this topic after this, but feel free to PM me if you wish to continue the discussion. Just a few points of clarification here:
 

Depends on what you mean. SJWs for the most part are pretty hostile even amongst themselves, but Social Justice Warriors are distinct from activists and feminists in the same way that swearing CoD kiddies are distinct from gamers as a whole. It's a stereotype that is painted with too broad a brush, but isn't rooted in falsity. By definition, it's the outlier, extremist fringe.

Fair enough on your usage of SJW; I would just note that a lot of the 'Gamers are over' articles are also using the term 'gamer' in a highly specified sense, where by definition it refers to the most extremist elements. I haven't seen the hashtag you mentioned; I looked it up on Google and didn't find anything, but that's probably just me being lazy. I've no doubt that it's awful.
 

And Hugo Boss began his career as a uniform manufacturer for the SS. But I don't wholly disagree. The thing that's important I believe was the recognition that the pre-cursor to GamerGate was too focused on Zoe Quinn. #Quinnspiracy and #FiveGuysBurgersAndFries. #GamerGate was, what many people have called for since, a changing of the tag, a way to distance themselves from Zoe Quinn specifically and focus on the greater issues of censorship and the 'Gamers are Dead' articles which triggered the actual hashtag. If it was just ZQ focused, #Quinnspiracy would've died in a few weeks. But we're here 6-7 months later.

This isn't my recollection of the origin of the #Gamergate tag; my understanding is that it originated with a tweet from Adam Baldwin which linked to the Internet Aristocrat videos on the Quinnspiracy; this was the day just prior to the wave of "Gamers are Over" articles.
 

Reviews, no. Coverage yes. There is a difference. And Zoe Quinn was merely the straw that broke the camel's back. Not the main event. I highly suspect that without ME 3's 'Gamers are Entitled' campaign and the Doritos Pope controversy, that gamers wouldn't have cared enough to get involved.

As far as Quinn exchanging sex for favorable coverage, this too is tenuous at best. Nathan Grayson's only article that mentioned Quinn came out in March of 2014 (it's also worth mentioning that this article does not say anything at all about Depression Quest, other than that Zoe Quinn made it). But Eron Gjoni himself (Quinn's ex and the original author of the Zoe Post) claims he has no evidence that Quinn and Grayson were romantically involved prior to April of 2014 (In Gjoni's own words, "To be clear, if there was any conflict of interest between Zoe and Nathan regarding coverage of Depression Quest prior to April, I have no evidence to imply that it was sexual in nature.").

Your metaphor of the straw that broke the camel's back is well-taken, but I think we have to recognize that some of those prior straws had to do with contempt among a subset of gamers for anyone who raised anything vaguely social justice-oriented. Related to this, there was a contingent of gamers who not only hated games like Gone Home and Depression Quest (not that there's anything wrong with hating those games; I haven't played them myself), but seemed morally indignant that they existed at all and had a consumer base. It was largely these sentiments that writers like Golding and Alexander were addressing in their claims that games had somehow moved past gamers. I think you and I agree that these authors did a ******-poor job of this, but I feel pretty confident in supposing that contempt for these games and issues was a major driver of GG.
 

This one is weird. You decry him as a right wing extremist, but in the very same sentence, explain why exactly #GamerGate care about and like him so much. And it has nothing to do with his right wing beliefs.

My reason for referring to Milo Yiannopoulos as a right wing extremist is that that seems to be his own preferred designation. As for his apology, I have to admit that I'm skeptical. As recently as August 14, 2014, Milo criticized GTA because it "rewards players with in-game currency for having sex with prostitutes, then killing them" (notice that this echoes Sarkeesian's criticism of the game precisely). But by early-mid September, his views had completely changed. It all just seems a little convenient to me. I agree that GGers don't necessarily admire him for his politics, but there's little doubt in my mind that what drew him to the movement had little to do with games or gamers.

There's obviously a lot more to address (for instance, whether or not anti-GG is underwritten by misandrist authoritarianism), but this topic is pretty exhausting for all involved, so I'll leave things there; like I said before, you can PM me if you wish to continue this discussion. Either way, thanks for the conversation.

[SwobyJ]

Gone Home is just so, so bad.

 

The good parts: some 90s nostalgia if you're into that, exploring a fairly crafted 3D area...um.... god, I dunno if I can call anything else of it 'good'.

 

The ending of it just annoyed me, and I say this as

Spoiler

a gay man who is very positive about gay rights activism, and all LGBT and queer identities at that; spoilers here as it relates to the game's content

.

 

I'm not so bothered by it existing or people in general liking it, but instead what looked like heaps of specific praise from the press about it. While I'm like, oh my god, I just spent $20 or whatever on an after school special. Oh my god. Its not that special or interesting. Please give the attention to someone, anyone else.

 

 

Anyway, I think there's lot of opportunists on either side of this conflict. And enough prominent ones that I backed the hell away from GG related stuff within a couple months. But I also don't remotely respect the kind of drivel I've been reading in the 'gaming press' (I can barely call it that) in recent months and in a way, years. Joystiq is about the only one I had left (in terms of subscribing to anything; I'll still give any gaming site my most occasional clicks) until it shut down, but I'm okay with that. The more this stuff turns into blog posts (aka opinionated activism - even activism that I may agree partially or even sometimes entirely with), the more choosy I can easily be about whether I want to even give it my attention.

 

And not necessarily because of this gradually more activist trend. I regularly read and enjoy and typically agree with socially progressive and related blogs. Its because they're such bad writers (and perhaps people) about it all, and so easily and seemingly petulantly paint large populations with a huge brush. I don't care what your cause is - that's rude and I won't tolerate that. Not from gamers (I will either walk away from or confront it when I see it from them), but also not from supposedly 'progressive' writers (which I'll do the same with, when I see the same thing from them).

[Fawx9]

osbornep I just want to quickly point out that regardless of their exact personal status, Nathan tested the game, and still gave coverage of it. So regardless of the sexual activity, he had a hand in game feedback and still didn't disclose it. 

 

As for Milo, he's a hard pill to swallow, but if you've watched his Portal streams, you can see where he got into the whole gaming thing. I'm not saying he's gaming ambassador of the year, just it seems like he did learn something and does seem to enjoy some aspects of gaming now. 

 

As for continued SVU episode fallout, there seems to be a growing amount of fear-mongering and tension between devs. Just today we've had someone try to use a threat of a gas attack from back in October aimed at pro GG members to scare people off from pax. It's amazing how twitter has broken people when it comes to having any sort of discussion not involving aimless agreement. 

[Kaiser Arian XVII]

Gone Home is just so, so bad.

 

The good parts: some 90s nostalgia if you're into that, exploring a fairly crafted 3D area...um.... god, I dunno if I can call anything else of it 'good'.

 

 

Every damn thing in 90s era was good comparing to 2000s. Awesome design of clothes, hairstyles and cars. Great movies (not just SUPERHEROES). Video games at the second half of 90s were marvelous. Great Country-Rock era, still better pop music.

 

 

At least people weren't corrupted by Internet and were closer to each other.

 

Then everything went retard since 2004-5 actually.

[SwobyJ]

Every damn thing in 90s era was good comparing to 2000s. Awesome design of clothes, hairstyles and cars. Great movies (not just SUPERHEROES). Video games at the second half of 90s were marvelous. Great Country-Rock era, still better pop music.

 

 

At least people weren't corrupted by Internet and were closer to each other.

 

Then everything went retard since 2004-5 actually.

 

I disagree. I'm rather bored with a lot of what was the 90s, and would hate to live through it again. Do I consider it one of the best decades of the last century? Yes, so I'm not sputtering hate about it. But I also have a much more positive view on the 00s than you do, I suppose.

 

I don't consider the Internet a corruption, but a great boon to humanity. I also have conflicted opinions on whether 'closer' in your words was actually closer, or just seemed that way.

 

Basically, I think you're too cynical.

 

EDIT: And for the record, I think most of this GG and related disputes only involve a small subset of industries and cultures while the rest of us just go about our regular business and socialization. A few mainstream media mentions and a lot of forum debate does not actually make a big deal, or truly represent a super serious cultural phenomenon. I cringe at 'SJW' not because it isn't a valid term for some people, but because I've seen people regard it as a wide reaching threat to humanity. Again, as the rest of us just carry on.

[slimgrin]

 

 

EDIT: And for the record, I think most of this GG and related disputes only involve a small subset of industries and cultures while the rest of us just go about our regular business and socialization. A few mainstream media mentions and a lot of forum debate does not actually make a big deal, or truly represent a super serious cultural phenomenon. I cringe at 'SJW' not because it isn't a valid term for some people, but because I've seen people regard it as a wide reaching threat to humanity. Again, as the rest of us just carry on.

 

How I wish that were true. You're talking about a movement that's infected sci fi literature, comics, occupy wall street, even atheism and now gaming. You can't just ignore these people, they have too much influence.

[Kaiser Arian XVII]

How I wish that were true. You're talking about a movement that's infected sci fi literature, comics, occupy wall street, even atheism and now gaming. You can't just ignore these people, they have too much influence.

 

You mean the Wheelchair Scientist, the Weed Astronomist, and the Broken Tooth Professor... plus 2 athie comedians?

[slimgrin]

You mean the Wheelchair Scientist, the Weed Astronomist, and the Broken Tooth Professor... plus 2 athie comedians?

 

No. Poor attempt at downplaying mate. 

[SwobyJ]

How I wish that were true. You're talking about a movement that's infected sci fi literature, comics, occupy wall street, even atheism and now gaming. You can't just ignore these people, they have too much influence.

 

I've found it pretty easy so far. I mean, I'm not meaning to totally ignore them, but just go about my business and my most positive relationships with others, and 'infection' doesn't mean 'domination'. Any by no means do I think its dominated my sci fi enjoyment, economic or political perceptions, atheism, or gaming hobby. And unlike I guess some here and elsewhere, I don't think they ever will.

 

Now concepts of social justice and some of the lingo of 'SJW', sure (oh no! we'll have Gen Z using the 'cis' word and 'social equity' concept! Ahhh!). Those are ideas and they live on. But the jerks don't really. The biggest ones either do get some positions of power and that should be addressed, but the rest can barely function in society as it is. And I know that, in my own way, by personal experience and associations.

 

EDIT: And when it comes to the 'they'll be teaching our kids in university' thing, ha, I barely think that university will exist as a dominant higher educational force by 2050, but that's just me.

[Cainhurst Crow]

As for continued SVU episode fallout, there seems to be a growing amount of fear-mongering and tension between devs. Just today we've had someone try to use a threat of a gas attack from back in October aimed at pro GG members to scare people off from pax. It's amazing how twitter has broken people when it comes to having any sort of discussion not involving aimless agreement. 

 

I just want to point out, the same person who made this claim about a gas attack at pax, and I do know who it is who made it, also tried to get people who wanted to beat up gamergate supports to sign up as her paid private security for the event.

 

Her name is Brianna Wu. She's insane.

[SmilesJA]

I just want to point out, the same person who made this claim about a gas attack at pax, and I do know who it is who made it, also tried to get people who wanted to beat up gamergate supports to sign up as her paid private security for the event.

 

Her name is Brianna Wu. She's insane.

 

People should be more afraid of her than Gamergame honestly. 

[Sully13]

Want to level up whit Me?

New Gamer chatup line. 

[A Crusty Knight Of Colour]

People should be more afraid of her than Gamergame honestly. 

 

It's Zoe Quinn that I'm leery of. She's a Goon with ties to the Helldump subforum, a place that originally was there to call out a lot of internal drama on the forums, but was also used as a dox dumping ground to co-ordinate harassment of people they didn't like. Furries were a constant target, and one target of Helldump even committed suicide as a result.

 

Can you imagine that kind of person in charge of something like the CON (Crash Override Network), where soft and gullible people would freely give over their personal details because they fear internet harassment. It's even worse that the media is giving it fluff piece after fluff piece, buttering people up. I hope CON (which is what it is) crashes and burns before it's supposed to be launched. Because some special snowflake is going to get hurt.

 

Spoiler

And the media will still find a way to blame #GamerGate.

[Seboist]

Gone Home is just so, so bad.

 

The good parts: some 90s nostalgia if you're into that, exploring a fairly crafted 3D area...um.... god, I dunno if I can call anything else of it 'good'.

 

The ending of it just annoyed me, and I say this as

Spoiler

a gay man who is very positive about gay rights activism, and all LGBT and queer identities at that; spoilers here as it relates to the game's content

.

 

I'm not so bothered by it existing or people in general liking it, but instead what looked like heaps of specific praise from the press about it. While I'm like, oh my god, I just spent $20 or whatever on an after school special. Oh my god. Its not that special or interesting. Please give the attention to someone, anyone else.

 

 

Anyway, I think there's lot of opportunists on either side of this conflict. And enough prominent ones that I backed the hell away from GG related stuff within a couple months. But I also don't remotely respect the kind of drivel I've been reading in the 'gaming press' (I can barely call it that) in recent months and in a way, years. Joystiq is about the only one I had left (in terms of subscribing to anything; I'll still give any gaming site my most occasional clicks) until it shut down, but I'm okay with that. The more this stuff turns into blog posts (aka opinionated activism - even activism that I may agree partially or even sometimes entirely with), the more choosy I can easily be about whether I want to even give it my attention.

 

And not necessarily because of this gradually more activist trend. I regularly read and enjoy and typically agree with socially progressive and related blogs. Its because they're such bad writers (and perhaps people) about it all, and so easily and seemingly petulantly paint large populations with a huge brush. I don't care what your cause is - that's rude and I won't tolerate that. Not from gamers (I will either walk away from or confront it when I see it from them), but also not from supposedly 'progressive' writers (which I'll do the same with, when I see the same thing from them).

 

Gone Home's an utterly unremarkable (non)game whose only distinguishing feature is that there's some sappy teenage lesbian love story that you learn about as you go about walking around in this glorified collection of audio logs. This "game" also falsely misleads people into thinking it's some kind of horror game involving some haunted house in it's title art.

 

Then there's Depression Quest, another non-game that's a recreation of a geocities webpage circa 1996. What's most amusing about this is how the trailer consists of Zoe Quinn sleeping on a bed(most honest advertisement I've seen). I can only *guess* as to how this "game" got the coverage it did on game media...

 

If there's anything positive I can say about Brianna Wu's crappy "Revolution 60" that looks like a PS1 era shovelware title with poorly textured bratz dolls, is that it's a better "game" than gone home and depression quest, even if it merely wins that by default for simply being a game.

 

And here's some bonus lulz, Date sim/puzzle game Huniepop (whom the self-appointed moral inquisitor SJWs wanted banned from steam) completely annihilated Gone Home in sales in mere days of it's release. I'm also proud to say that I own this game.

 

 

Money talks and BS walks as they say.

[Sully13]

So there's these white knights right?

dose that make us Black knights?

'cos I'm ok whit that.

[A Crusty Knight Of Colour]

<---

[Sully13]

Mwaa haa haa

[Jeremiah12LGeek]

I'm a purple sequin knight.

 

Purple sequin knights defend people self righteously and stuff, but most of the time we're just concerned with being fabulous.

[Sully13]

https://www.youtube....h?v=YFAZ18Aex5c

I love this.

[LPPrince]

Sabots made me look up Huniepop so I can find out what the fuss is about.

 

Well this is convenient-

 

[Kaiser Arian XVII]

So there's these white knights right?

dose that make us Black knights?

'cos I'm ok whit that.

 

I'm da Green Knight.

Come at me bro!

[LPPrince]

Not even 12 minutes thru this Huniepop playthrough I'm watching and I can say I LOVE the dialogue. hahahaha

[Jock Cranley]

That crap is to creepy for me tbh.

[General TSAR]

Speaking of Hunniepop, check out their politically correct patch :

 

General TSAR approves.