504 réponses à ce sujet

[A Crusty Knight Of Colour]

BTW, I'm not kidding either.



At least Pokemon fans use their inside voice to oppress women.

[Jorji Costava]

Happy coincidence lol. But I'll try to type up a decent response to all of that.

 

I would just note that first: A lot of the articles in that image contain no references to the end of gamers, and second, there's plenty of middle ground between coincidence and conspiracy. Golding's article came first, and it's not out of the realm of possibility that other like-minded authors, reacting to the same event, and having seen his piece, might take inspiration from his article as regards what title they decide to give theirs. And indeed, all of the "end of an identity" articles explicitly reference either Golding or Leigh Alexander.

 

Anyways, I'm going to check out of this discussion for now, because it probably isn't going to go anywhere good from here. I'll just say that I have not seen and have no interest in seeing the SVU GG episode. Just don't have any interest in any iteration of that franchise.

[Kaiser Arian XVII]

BTW, I'm not kidding either.



At least Pokemon fans use their inside voice to oppress women.

 

In the old times the weaker sex always needed to be helped and rescued. But now we have so many strong independent

Spoiler

Forever alone

women!

[SmilesJA]

Is everything mysoginist now?

[Dio Demon]

Is everything mysoginist now?

This comment so obviously misogynistic women 20 internets away were oppressed by you. 

[Dermain]

Is everything mysoginist now?

 

It can be seen that way.

 

Of course, just because you can see it that way, does not mean that it actually is.

 

Unfortunately, numerous people in this "debate" have confused the two with each other, which ends up leading to pointless arguments/television shows/media articles/etc. It gets tiring after awhile.

[o Ventus]

 

Stalinist Justice Wankers

This is good. Mind if I use it?

[SmilesJA]

This comment so obviously misogynistic women 20 internets away were oppressed by you. 

 

Should I donate to your Patreon?

[SwobyJ]

I'm laughing so hard my sides hurt (though that could be my bruised rib I got from being sick a couple weeks ago).

[Dio Demon]

Should I donate to your Patreon?

Yes. That should prove that you are no longer misogynistic. 

[LPPrince]

BTW, I'm not kidding either.



At least Pokemon fans use their inside voice to oppress women.

 

What the f...that can't be serious

[Jeremiah12LGeek]

Golding's article came first, and it's not out of the realm of possibility that other like-minded authors, reacting to the same event, and having seen his piece, might take inspiration from his article as regards what title they decide to give theirs. And indeed, all of the "end of an identity" articles explicitly reference either Golding or Leigh Alexander.

 

Is it at all relevant that the articles were wrong?

[Fawx9]

Is it at all relevant that the articles were wrong?

The funny thing is the articles could be right if they weren't filled with hyperbole and pointlessly aggressive.

Change "Gamers are over" to "Gamers have evolved" and suddenly they can talk about how the gaming scene has become more inclusive and that the current gen of gamers need to be more responsible to this trend continue.

It would have completely changed the tone and probably not have caused a bunch of moderate people to look at the press like they were throwing a hissy fit.

Edit: of course then we wouldn't have gotten this awesome episode, so In someways I'm glad they constructed this nightmare scenario

[A Crusty Knight Of Colour]

TL;DR WARNING IN EFFECT: So I know that if there were a "downvote" system on these forums, this post would probably set the all time record, but I'm just going to upchuck my take on Gamergate here anyways.

I'll start by making a deal with GGers: I'll concede that the vast majority of GGers are honest folks who are participating in the movement in good faith, and aren't a bunch of harassing trolls out to kill Anita Sarkeesian; or more specifically, I'll concede this if they're willing to concede that 'SJWs' aren't a monolithic group all of whom are out to take away your games, and portray all gamers as virginal losers living in their mom's basements. Can we agree that #not all (insert your preferred group here)?

Depends on what you mean. SJWs for the most part are pretty hostile even amongst themselves, but Social Justice Warriors are distinct from activists and feminists in the same way that swearing CoD kiddies are distinct from gamers as a whole. It's a stereotype that is painted with too broad a brush, but isn't rooted in falsity. By definition, it's the outlier, extremist fringe.

On the topic of hashtags, have you seen the #describeagamerin4words that self described SJWs tried to trend when #GamerGate first came about? Pretty horrible stuff.
 

Looking at the history of GG, I just don't believe that it began as a movement in favor of journalistic ethics. There's a reason it started out as "Quinnspiracy" and not "Ubisoft-spiracy," or even "Grayson-spiracy"; it's telling that Nathan Grayson, the journalist originally accused of corruption, has been relatively untouched by GG as compared with Zoe Quinn, Anita Sarkeesian or Brianna Wu (none of whom are actually journalists). Even Angry Joe has acknowledged that the Quinnspiracy constitutes the wellspring from which GG spawned (which again, doesn't mean GGers are all sexist; it simply means they have incorrect information about their movement).

And Hugo Boss began his career as a uniform manufacturer for the SS. But I don't wholly disagree. The thing that's important I believe was the recognition that the pre-cursor to GamerGate was too focused on Zoe Quinn. #Quinnspiracy and #FiveGuysBurgersAndFries. #GamerGate was, what many people have called for since, a changing of the tag, a way to distance themselves from Zoe Quinn specifically and focus on the greater issues of censorship and the 'Gamers are Dead' articles which triggered the actual hashtag. If it was just ZQ focused, #Quinnspiracy would've died in a few weeks. But we're here 6-7 months later.

As for the involvement of Wu and Sarkeesian, they interluded and made themselves the story. I watched both of them interject into the debate in real time. No one had said a word about Sarkeesian until she tweeted something along the lines of "#GamerGate are the same people who harassed me during TvW Kickstarter." The media lapped it up, and is still lapping it up. Much of the talk around Sarkeesian comes from either refuting her points, defending themselves from allegations, or just being snarky. That, and the exploits of her FemFreq writer/producer boyfriend/friend, Jonathan McIntosh.

Now with regards to Wu, nobody at all knew who she was prior to the media blitz. From what I gathered, she tried to make image macros of an angry autistic child as a way of making fun of #GamerGate. This was apparently after creating fake accounts with misogynist tweets to pollute the hashtag traffic. People using the hashtag posted their own versions making fun of Wu and SJWs. Next thing we know, Brianna Wu's personal friend Eric Johnson (undisclosed, of course) writes an article for re/code about how Brianna was harassed, threatened, doxxed, etc. And the media run with it under the pretense of "female developer forced to flee home because of GoobleGarblers". Even though there is evidence that she never left her home in the first place, it's not like the media really cares. The narrative is established. The games media have their shield and the mainstream media are busy covering more important events.
 

From its beginning, GG has done itself few favors, with a significant percentage of its theories turning out to be utterly unsubstantiated. The original such theory was that Zoe Quinn slept with a game journalist in order to secure a favorable review for her game; it turns out that Nathan Grayson never reviewed Depression Quest (which is free by the way; that already makes it hard to see this as a consumer issue).

Reviews, no. Coverage yes. There is a difference. And Zoe Quinn was merely the straw that broke the camel's back. Not the main event. I highly suspect that without ME 3's 'Gamers are Entitled' campaign and the Doritos Pope controversy, that gamers wouldn't have cared enough to get involved.

You focus too much on Zoe Quinn. I like this interview of TotalBiscuit of what #GamerGate ought to be about. Unfortunately, when the strongest voices against it are like Arthur Chu and working in the media, the LWs get brought up a lot. Because they like to trend the conversation that way.

To put it in different terms, the assassination of Franz Ferdinand triggered WWI, but WWI was never really about the relations between the Serbians and Austro-Hungarians.
 

There was the claim that Anita Sarkeesian was a PUA, but this was debunked. In fact, it was debunked on the very article which made the accusation (see the correction at the end, in which the author is forced to basically repudiate his entire article).

This on the other hand, is fine. I wasn't aware of the correction, and I'll stop saying she was a PUA. It doesn't really change the general nature of her work history or her beahviour to my mind. But hey, facts are facts and I can concede when I'm wrong.
 

A few GGer's accused Anita Sarkeesian of fabricating her story about contacting authorities in an August 26th tweet; this was later debunked. And so on.

Yes, jumping the gun happens. Reminds me of how the Washington Post blamed (and still blame) #GamerGate for Anita Sarkeesian cancelling her talk in Utah, despite no mention of GamerGate in any of the (non-credible) threats. Also, the doxxing of Felicia Day, despite also no evidence of #GamerGate involvement aside from the handle "Internet Aristocrat" disturbing the dox, which was a thinly veiled attempt at framing as I've ever seen. Was probably a third party troll.
 

It didn't help that a substantial number of extreme right-wing figures glommed onto GamerGate, including Milo Yiannopoulos, the man who initially disclosed the GameJournoPros mailing list.

This one is weird. You decry him as a right wing extremist, but in the very same sentence, explain why exactly #GamerGate care about and like him so much. And it has nothing to do with his right wing beliefs.
 

Milo wrote this lovely piece on gamers in 2013; in a tweet on May 14, 2014, he attempted to directly link Elliot Rodger's killing spree to his fascination with games. There are also GG supporters like the PUA Roosh V, and far-right ethno-nationalist Davis Aurini (who has a video explaining that "American women are the most decadent sluts since the fall of Rome."). I'm not claiming that these guys are the 'leaders' of GG; most GGers probably haven't even heard of them. But something about this pattern of far-right commentators attaching themselves to GG suggests that they sensed the anti-feminist, anti-progressive undercurrents running through much of GG.

Well, for one, Milo has never shied away from what he said. He has also admitted that after being involved in the gaming community, that he was wrong to make such judgements previously.

If GG is to be tarred by an undercurrent of anti-feminist sentiment, then surely we can say that the people who oppose #GamerGate share an undeniable undercurrent of misandrist authoritarianism.

Though, if I were to make a judgement call, I think it's this distinct critical theory utilising misandrist-slanted extreme third wave feminism that many in #GamerGate dislike. For example, people like Shanley Kane. Most of #GamerGate identify as egalitarians.

But to be honest, I think that #GamerGate is primarily about the issue of far left moral authoritarians clashing with left-libertarians rather than something specifically about personal responsibility, gaming, feminism, or ethics. Which are just convenient (though not untrue) banners for more abstract ideals. Maybe I'll **** up another thread and write it up one day.

Both are ultimately niche political alignments talking about relatively niche subcultures, so I can understand why most people just don't care much either way.
 

I get that the spate of "Gamers are Dead" opinion pieces was dumb and propelled GG past the Quinnspiracy; SJW's pissed away any good will they might have had among gamers with those articles. Even abstracting away from what they say about gamers, they're just not good on any level (Golding's piece, particular, is nothing but a series of re-statements of his original thesis that gamers are 'over,' with no actual argument to be found). And yes, a lot of folks (like the writers of SVU) have been opportunistic in using GG to take cheap pot shots at people who play games, but at the end of the day, I just don't think GG is the best way to express these concerns. Pretty much every voice in nerd and gaming culture that I respect (Film Crit Hulk, MrBTongue, Errant Signal, and even Angry Joe, who's been critical of both sides) has come out against it, and while I can respect fair-minded people who've embraced GG, I just can't follow them.

That's fine, I'm not here to change opinions. Just shitpost and have a little fun.

#GamerGate will be fine on it's own. Poorly run publications with unprofessional staff are getting shut down, places like IGN, PCGamer, The Escapist, GameTrailers and soon GameSpot will be up and running with new ethics policies. New media outlets are starting to be established and are doing well (TechRaptor, NicheGamer, etc). Let alone YouTube.

Though it really burns me up that publisher relationships with gaming journos have not been adequately tackled in the open because media outlets sought to protect corrupt or unethical practices by holding up professional victims and "feminism" as their shield. Maybe once the false narrative is truly shattered, #GG can focus on that.

In the meantime, I'll be here posting dank memes from the SVU episode.



>he doesn't level up on gamer girls

Spoiler

Unrelated motivational video.

[Cainhurst Crow]

Special Agent: The posting invites I ordered lists Me, My Men, Mrs. Punjabi, but only one of you.

*Activates Admin Privileges and allows free posting.

Special Agent: First one to talk, gets to stay on these forums.

*sends PM to one of 5 accounts, each with the same avatar.

Special Agent: Who payed you to grab Mrs. Punjabi!?

Suspect 1:......................

*Que update saying lose of post privilege, followed by suspect logging out.

Special Agent: He didn't darkchan so good. Who wants to try next?

Suspect 2:.......................

Special Agent: Tell me about Bayne!? Where does he post his playthroughs!?

Suspect 2:.......................

Special Agent: Lotta loyalty for a shooter fan.

Suspect 5: Or perhaps he's wondering why someone would take away posting privileges, before banning them from a forum?

Special Agent: At least you can talk...who are you?

Suspect 5: It doesn't matter who we are...what matters is our plan.

*Avatar changes to bane avatar with KOPS mask*

Bayne: No one cared who I was till I put on the mask.

[Sully13]

BTW, I'm not kidding either.



At least Pokemon fans use their inside voice to oppress women.

well you do order female pokemon arround. yah jerk.

[BronzTrooper]

I can't believe I actually wasted my time to watch that POS episode.  I want that hour of my life back.

 

But seriously, WTF were the writers thinking?  It's just sad how badly they represented the whole issue.

 

Anyway.... where's the mind bleach?

[Sully13]

 

 

 

(This vid is pretty funny and releavant.) 

yeah other than the .. lets just say incident...you know the smashing up GTA.

i still like most of there videos

[A Crusty Knight Of Colour]

Special Agent: The posting invites I ordered lists Me, My Men, Mrs. Punjabi, but only one of you.
*Activates Admin Privileges and allows free posting.
Special Agent: First one to talk, gets to stay on these forums.
*sends PM to one of 5 accounts, each with the same avatar.
Special Agent: Who payed you to grab Mrs. Punjabi!?
Suspect 1:......................
*Que update saying lose of post privilege, followed by suspect logging out.
Special Agent: He didn't darkchan so good. Who wants to try next?
Suspect 2:.......................
Special Agent: Tell me about Bayne!? Where does he post his playthroughs!?
Suspect 2:.......................
Special Agent: Lotta loyalty for a shooter fan.
Suspect 5: Or perhaps he's wondering why someone would take away posting privileges, before banning them from a forum?
Special Agent: At least you can talk...who are you?
Suspect 5: It doesn't matter who we are...what matters is our plan.
*Avatar changes to bane avatar with KOPS mask*
Bayne: No one cared who I was till I put on the mask.

CIA: If I pull that off, will you go home gamergirl?
Bane: It would be extremely game on.
CIA: You're a high level guy.
Bane: For SVU.
CIA: Was getting doxxed part of your plan?
Bane: Of course... Raina Punjabi refused our offer in favor of yours, we had to find out what you read on Kotaku.
Raina Punjabi: Nothing! I said nothing is better than Civ V with the Brave New World Expansion!
CIA: Well, congratulations! You got yourself slaughtered! Now what's the next mod in your master plan?
Bane: Crashing this redchanit subthread... with no survivors!

[Jeremiah12LGeek]

Is this actual dialogue from the show? 

[A Crusty Knight Of Colour]

Is this actual dialogue from the show?

Nah it's a mixture of SVU related buzzwords and Baneposting. Or Acidposting, based on the "villain" of the episode, Acid_Rain (PBUH).

Actual lines from the show are worse though...

[Cainhurst Crow]

Acid_Rain...the characters name is Acid Rain!?

THIS IS DELICIOUS! !!!! XD

"Where is Rain!? Where does be play his games!?"

[Sully13]

yah know its almost like TV is compeating whith Gameing ant the internet?.... HMMMMMM.

[Jeremiah12LGeek]

Actual lines from the show are worse though...

 

That doesn't surprise me.

[Sully13]

dude we cant be ISIS. there the opposing team on COD.