27 réponses à ce sujet

[Dieb]

I couldn't find a definite answer on this one, so I'll ask those eager to shine.

 

 

Does the "***% weapon damage" used to calculate skill damage, consider solely the Weapon Damage on the weapon sheet itself, or does it consider the character's Attack modifier (reportedly boosting Weapon Damage), too?

 

I was always going for Willpower & Attack in both SP & MP, because all traps and poisons use percentual weapon damage like most skills. The Artificer tree giving suspiciously frequent Willpower boni was my initial clue, but yesterday someone claimed that's all BS. However, why would they give the specialization that relies the least on actual weapon attacks, the most (and as far as rogue trees are concerned, ONLY) Willpower, thus Attack boni?

 

Thanks guys.

Please remember to also post memes and question each other's competence in the subsequently derailed discussion.

 

 

I love all of you, and you know it.

[Kjubaran]

If you would invest actual time you spent writing this post into some searching...

[Dieb]

If you would invest actual time you spent writing this post into some searching...

 

Thanks man! Now we just need the answering part and it's an MP board thread.

 

 

edit: Seriously though, friend. That phrase is an easy trigger to pull, I get it. But this question has in fact not been answered definitely yet, and I have been around the block a couple of times, too.

[21T09]

I´ll bite then.

 

http://forum.bioware...ive-attributes/

[Shadohz]

The longer you hold down the attack button, the more damage you do.

[orskar]

I´ll bite then.

 

http://forum.bioware...ive-attributes/

 

 

I think what they were getting at is it's not clear quite what to focus on when you want to gear towards certain ability damage when the ability lists it as a multiplier of weapon damage. ie, do you choose best atk%, best dps or go for the best base damage? I had initially presumed it was only base damage but between observation and that testing it's apparent that atk% has an effect.

 

this is usually an issue if you got similar level gear with different focus. ie say I have two bows, one has 100  base damage with 14% atk buff and the other has 114 base damage but no atk% buff, which do I use If I want to maximise damage from longshot?

 

Early on I had similar concerns when it came to my warriors and considering various a high dps axe/mace with decent atk buff or lower dps sword that has better base damage (fortunately I have both caliban & griffon bow who have the great atk & base and I don't care too much about this atm. might change my tone if I get Punched by the maker)

 

 

that testing link seems like it's not quite clear itself or did I miss something?:

 

 

 

Attack Test 1

Level 13 rogue, base stats, Longshot unlocked. Longshot is used at greater than 15m range for bonus damage.

Setup 1: Bow 70 DPS 62 dmg per hit, 3% attack (base stats).

Setup 2: Bow 70 DPS 62 dmg per hit, 13% attack.

Target: Level 7 Ram (0 armor)

Test: using 10 basic attacks and 10 max range Longshots on armorless enemy. Critical hits are ignored.

 

Results:

Equipping the bow did not change "Main-Hand Damage" on attributes screen.

Setup 1: Basic 64.1 dmg (average); Longshot 513.6 dmg (average)

Setup 2: Basic 69.4 dmg (average); Longshot 525.4 dmg (average)

 

Conclusion:

Attack % appears to provide a flat % increase on basic attacks. Effect on abilities is rather confusing.

[Dieb]

Okay, that again is the same information as on the Fextralife wikis. The whole "I searched" thing was not a platitude.

 

Look guys, the love part in the OP was true, and I am not trying to waste anyone's time. That's why I stated a very specific problem. If it's impossible to narrow down, then I'll have to live with it. But dropping in here with no input and a condescending attitude to make me look like a lazy idiot, is not really something I find very fair.

 

 So ease off a little there, everyone's veteran status is duly noted. We all have been playing this for the full three and a half months it's out.

 

 

 

The longer you hold down the attack button, the more damage you do.

/thread

 

P.S.: Yelling at Kinect makes cooldowns faster, too.

[Shadohz]

Okay, that again is the same information as on the Fextralife wikis. The whole "I searched" thing was not a platitude.

We do it out of love. My original was much worse until I used backspace. Anyway... he has a basic formula but his Attk% tests appear to be inclusive and/or unfinished. He/she has a basic formula but no notation for specific skill application.
 

Attack %

• Increases damage of basic attacks and most* abilities by 1%.
• Damage bonus applied after deduction by enemy armor.
• (Weapon - Armor) * (1 + Attk%), NOT Weapon * (1 + Attk%) - Armor.

*Note: some abilities may calculate damage differently and fail to apply the bonus properly. So far, Longshot's bonus damage based on range is not affected by attack %. I'll test more abilities in the future, as a lower priority task. Please let me know if you find any ability that doesn't benefit or doesn't benefit fully from attack %.

[TormDK]

Think of how many troll replies we would miss if Bioware released the correct calculations the engine uses.

 

It's silly that they don't.

[Dieb]

 

I was afraid that they actually assigned the boni willy-nilly :/

 

Think I'm gonna stick with my "Willpower-In-Artificer-Tree"-thesis and just.... pretend. Pretend.

[veramis]

I was afraid that they actually assigned the boni willy-nilly :/

 

Think I'm gonna stick with my "Willpower-In-Artificer-Tree"-thesis and just.... pretend. Pretend.

 

If by that you mean you want to stack willpower instead of cunning, the opinion I hear the most from other people is to stack cunning instead of willpower. Critical chance is great for a lot of classes and ranged defense is definitely the strongest of the three defenses when you play high DPS and/or all-ranged teams.

[Dieb]

Not instead. Something, something "Critical Hit" is giving me whide eyes ever since Diablo 1, don't worry.

 

It's kinda hard to stack anything besides what you're given in MP. I was just generally curious.

 

But for example, that would be another reason why the LBOTG is an incredibly opressive necessity. It has +30-something % Attack, after all. I wish there were 3 or 4 viable weapons for certain playstyles. I also wish we'd all get paid in candy, but I guess you can't have everything.

[orskar]

see now my concern with Longbow of the Griffon is that it could be marginally outclassed by Puncher by the maker when used by archers, as the higher base damage might have more of an effect on longshot than the higher atk% of griffon. I say archers here as they don't get much use out of the triple shot at the ranges they are likely staying at to use longshot.

 

but that is likely to be marginal thing that doesn't matter much unless you want max effectiveness and got lucky with RNG, for the most part it's not really an issue as most weapon types have just one clear "best" item (highest dmg & atk buff), so I guess that's why there's not much push to clear this up. 

[Kenny Bania]

see now my concern with Longbow of the Griffon is that it could be marginally outclassed by Puncher by the maker when used by archers, as the higher base damage ....

 

Could've sworn they have the same base damage.

[orskar]

150 vs 143 I think. griffon has +40% attack.

 

 

edit: https://docs.google....#gid=1172908061

 

Pbtm: 151 (+14% crit chance) vs Lbotg: 148 (+42% atk). so perhaps it might be better using archer abilities with griffon if that crit chance with your crit damge works out lower overall dps.

 

not a perfect example of this problem but again shows why no one cares that much since with either you are putting out similarly big numbers.

[MostlyAutumn]

The spreadsheet is wrong. Both bows have 147–152 damage range.

[Altruismo]

150 vs 143 I think. griffon has +40% attack.

 

 

edit: https://docs.google....#gid=1172908061

 

Pbtm: 151 (+14% crit chance) vs Lbotg: 148 (+42% atk). so perhaps it might be better using archer abilities with griffon if that crit chance with your crit damge works out lower overall dps.

 

not a perfect example of this problem but again shows why no one cares that much since with either you are putting out similarly big numbers.

 

The attack% still applies to the non-range dependent part of longshot.

LBotG and PbtM both get the same ammount from the 600% range bonus at 15m, but Griffon has an extra 42% attack applied to the 200% base damage. In real terms, an Archer will still do around 130 more total damage (+42% of 150+26rune base damage, times 2. With a little armor consideration) with Longshot using Griffon when compared to Maker.

The crit % from Maker still applies to the full ammount though, but to crunch the numbers you have to consider total attack%, total crit% etc, and even if Maker can "make-up" lost ground on Longshot, it's still getting outpaced heavily on everything else by Griffon.

[Dieb]

LBOTG is not only a better choice because of the obvious triple shot, but also because of the obscene attack boost. As a lover of indirect fighting via traps & poison, combined with the notion above, this is too good to ignore.

 

I for one favour a lvl 23 rare bow I found that has a heal on hit perk which I mostly use instead, but I'm aware the LBOTG would enable me to do way higher damage. Honestly? I have it. I don't use it primarily because every hunter and most archers use it, too. My mom said I'm special, back at the big recital evening at elementary school, and today, I'm kind of certain this precise situation is what she was on about.

[Medallian]

Ok i'v been playing for like 1200 hour and my willpower is 130 right now and it seems to be pretty obvious to me at this point the atk% from willpower is applied to everything across the board from basic atk to skills to even jar of bees so potion damage ... increasing and boosting the damage output of everything.

[Altruismo]

Ok i'v been playing for like 1200 hour and my willpower is 130 right now and it seems to be pretty obvious to me at this point the atk% from willpower is applied to everything across the board from basic atk to skills to even jar of bees so potion damage ... increasing and boosting the damage output of everything.

 

Because your raw attack% is so high, you're actually able to test Longshot better than most other players.

With that much willpower and a Lbbotg you should do around 290-320 damage for a standard Archer auto attack, depending on how much armor your target has (counting the rune), so around 240-270 "red" damage.

Regardless, if you use Longshot point blank, it should do double what your normal hit will do. If my estimates are right, around 650 damage, +/- 50 damage or so.

Now, if your +attack% is counted for the 600% bonus damage at 15m, you would get another three times what you do point blank - for a total around 2600 +/- 200 damage (8 x 650).
If you do not get your +attack% applied to the 600% damage, you can expect an extra 600% of the base damage for the bow (around 175 with a rune) - for a total around 1700 +/- 50 damage (2 x 650 + 6 x 175).

Now, these are non-crits and I'm talking about the first target hit with longshot. If you're playing with a level 20 archer with passives and extra dex/wil etcyour numbers will probably be a few steps higher than my estimates here, but Ideally you'd test it with a "freshly" promoted archer and only put skill points into first blood, then Longshot to keep variables to a minimum. Just on the strength of First Blood most of your test shots will likely be around 15% higher than I estimate anyway.

I'll add, I've tested it, and found the attack% is not added to the range bonus, other people have tested it and found that the attack% is not added to the range bonus. Feel free to test it yourself, or not. Testing it with a willpower as high as yours would provide some useful information to the community. Just take 10 minutes to go into a routine game, see what your average auto-attack does, then compare that damage to your average point blank, and long range Longshot.

[Altruismo]

I did think I remember it being said that any "bonus" damage of abilities (damage applied over the initial damage percent of an ability) did not correctly apply attack percentages. That may have been fixed, however.

 

There are times I try to test damage numbers, but I fail miserably. I'll calculate that <insert ability> will do <insert damage> based upon <insert variables> using the known damage formula. Then I get in game and the numbers I see are way off what I calculated, and I can never figure out why. Like when I calculated that my critical hits with a fully triggered Long Shot should be like 2k damage, and in came it came out to like 3.5k damage. 1,500 damage is quite a mathematical error, if you ask me lol.

 

As a result, I stab at theoretical damage calculations, but never invest too heavily into them. I think that BioWare knows when I do, and trolls me for lawlz.

 

 

I know what you mean, usually I find it's best just to go in game, hit something, then use a power, then work backwards against the formula the power is meant to use. The other problem is sometimes it's difficult to determine what the "bonus" damage is meant to be when you look at a tooltip:

Say a theoretical ability that does 200% damage, + 300% vs disabled targets, with an upgrade that's a 400% bonus... is that 600% + 300% when upgraded, or 200+700? or 200+400 (400 replaces 300)? Only by hitting things and "reverse engineering" the results can we be sure.

Armor, resistances and passives throw things out too - does armor affect the extra damage from the rune for a physical damage ability, does resistance or vulerability affect it?

Does armor apply only "once"?

For example, with a physical damage ability that's 400% weapon damage is armor before, or after the 400%?

Is it:

200 weapon damage - 30 armor = 170 with +60% attack = 272 times 400% for an ability = 1088 damage

Instead of going:

200 weapon damage times 400% for a power = 800 damage - 30 armor = 770 with +60% attack = 1232 damage

 

That's almost a 15% difference (in this particular example), make it a crit and it jumps to around 20% difference (or more if you've got + crit damage %)

I'm pretty sure it's applied after, which usually gets my "theoretical numbers" close to what I see in game when I test, but often when just bandying numbers around I don't bother thinking too hard about where armor may come in.

[Alix626]

The plural of 'bonus' is 'bonuses'. There is a Latin word 'bonus', but it's an adjective and obviously not the word that the OP is using. Sorry, it just hurt my eyes to see 'boni'.

[Medallian]

Because your raw attack% is so high, you're actually able to test Longshot better than most other players.
With that much willpower and a Lbbotg you should do around 290-320 damage for a standard Archer auto attack, depending on how much armor your target has (counting the rune), so around 240-270 "red" damage.
Regardless, if you use Longshot point blank, it should do double what your normal hit will do. If my estimates are right, around 650 damage, +/- 50 damage or so.
Now, if your +attack% is counted for the 600% bonus damage at 15m, you would get another three times what you do point blank - for a total around 2600 +/- 200 damage (8 x 650).
If you do not get your +attack% applied to the 600% damage, you can expect an extra 600% of the base damage for the bow (around 175 with a rune) - for a total around 1700 +/- 50 damage (2 x 650 + 6 x 175).

Now, these are non-crits and I'm talking about the first target hit with longshot. If you're playing with a level 20 archer with passives and extra dex/wil etcyour numbers will probably be a few steps higher than my estimates here, but Ideally you'd test it with a "freshly" promoted archer and only put skill points into first blood, then Longshot to keep variables to a minimum. Just on the strength of First Blood most of your test shots will likely be around 15% higher than I estimate anyway.

I'll add, I've tested it, and found the attack% is not added to the range bonus, other people have tested it and found that the attack% is not added to the range bonus. Feel free to test it yourself, or not. Testing it with a willpower as high as yours would provide some useful information to the community. Just take 10 minutes to go into a routine game, see what your average auto-attack does, then compare that damage to your average point blank, and long range Longshot.

rofl your so so so wrong.... I do around 500-800 with my normal shot 900 to 1200 crit my long shot does around 3800 to 7000 + depending on crit lol please please watch my twitch some time and let's figure this out because your so so off I do well o er do u left what you just stated... that's why I say atk is 1% per willpower..my damage is truly amazing and I just keep getting stronger..I listen to what's posted on here and it just does not add up..because the logical guess I read which do have grounded basis...just are not translated through in the actual game.. please let me know when you will be on and jump to my twitch and I will take my archer from lvl 1 to 20 and you can look at my gear and stuff because I truly want to know .